Two counterpoints Smalma:

1) WSR was not implemented in most instances until we started to see runs consistantly not meeting escapement goals in those streams.

You're right, many have not come back so well. Perhaps our goals are too low and we're at a critical mass stage in these populations when we finally start acting to limit our impact.

I'm sure you'll answer "No" as the Gibbons theories seem to be religion at WDFW ... but what if his ideas of carrying capacity are wrong? The success rate of long-term viability of the state's stocks is atrocious.

I know that you give a hoot about the fish, so this takes on a personal side of things to some degree. But just what if the way we've run things isn't quite what the fish need?

Other areas have moved away from lower escapement goals in recent years in their management of steelhead (and salmon), yet in many cases our goals have gone down. What makes the WDFW so right and many others so wrong?

Clearly there are some things about these fish we will never understand. I won't, you won't, the WDFW won't, nobody won't.

Your post regarding the weather and effects on the young fish brought up a thought in my mind the other day: since we'll likley have poorer survival of this year's spawn because of this, do we factor this into the goal we want to have in place to offset such conditions.

We try, try to manage many aspects of these fisheries ... yet, there are many factors outside of our control as anglers or managers that work against the fish in varying degrees. Isn't that all the more reason to grant these fish more protection? Especially in the case of those few stocks that are still above the magic number established by the state ... which in itself is in question to many of us who have watched fisheries fail to maintain themselves under the status quo?

2) If the Hoh run is so healthy, then why have we had a number of years in which we had to close the fishery ENTIRELY early? I have no issue with the closures, it was in the interest of the fish, but the management scheme that allowed for harvest all season long until we got to a point where the WDFW says "Oh, oh ... there aren't enough fish, we have to close it completely." is not the sign of a truly healthy stock in my book