Osprey, Let me enlighten you onto acouple of facts concerning the branch antler restrictions that you are bragging up. First off I will tell you that I am talking about the Clockum and Yakima Elk herds..I am very familiar with the history of these areas. To begin with prior to our Branch antler resrictions(BAR) bull cow ratio averaged approx 3-8 bulls per hundred cows(according to the wdfg's figures). Currently our ratios have been around 12-14 bulls/cows(Yakima herd)Let me tell that the numbers given to us have always been on the low side! When the wdfg was doing their surveys in the early 90's I was also out there HIKING instead oof counting feedlot elk. I never failed to come up with at least 5-8 bulls/cows higher than there highest estimate!!!!! O.k now to the real point..Currently our elk herds are in WORSE shape overall than they were prior to spike only restrictions..Our numbers are high but the overall health of the herd isn't in good shape. Through the 80's and early 90's our cow/calve ratio averaged in the mid to upper 40's.. THis leads to excellent recruitment!!Some of the highest in the entire country!! We have been going backwards ever since!! Right now our cow/calve ratios are bumping on the low 30's!!!! This is cause for alarm! This year they didn't even offer Branch bull tags in the Clockum area. Why? Because they haven't been able to reach the level of recruitment that is neccesary to sustain a viable elk herd!! Now you may ask why is this? Well my featherfliggin friend the answer is real simple.. PREDATORS!!!!!! Since the lost off using hounds as a management tool our cougar population has exploded..The bears also kill an incredible amount of the new born calve elk and coyotes as always are opportunists. I will gaurentee you that if we don't do something that you guys will have zero big bull tags to apply for! Look at the BLue Mtns., huge elk but less than half of there carrying capacity!!! I've spent countless hrs and days watching hunting chasing, picking up horns ect....My opinions are from being out there, not from sitting behind some desks.Elk hunting has been my passion since I started hunting!! I take them very seriously just like you would a big native steelhead..Just because the feedlot looks better than it ever has doesn't mean that everything is going well.. I have alot more I would like to add but I am tired of pecking the [Bleeeeep!] out of my keyboard.. Osprey, I will add that if things were managed correctly that the BAR program would definately work. But as is nothing is going to work in the long run!!