Am I the only the only on here that wonders
"why do these guys post the rivers they are fishing"?My thought is they are either need to brag to someone or they just don't have much else to do.
Why,with the email so easy wouldn't it just be better to ask about a river this way."HOW'S THE"RIVER IN QUESTION" DOING THESE DAYS, PLEASE EMAIL ME HELP IF YOU CAN.
Thanking you in advance or a email thank you.
Now,I know there are some guys out there that's gonna say everybody just needs to know where to go and that I am just wrong for bringing this up but I'm sure there are others that must agree with me. fp

FP, I have sort of the same mentality
certain rivers are no secret like the Cowlitz,and maybe the naaa forget it.
beyond that I won't kiss and tell,
like you said thats what e-mails for
most of the name droppers are looking for recodnition...I think(wow look I caught a fish too)
The WWW is a wonderful and yet very powerful tool,with all the info available to those that didn't belong to the 10%,because that % is going up which is good for the sport but not so good for the fish
we need to practice C&R for all wild fish
because with all the closers happening up north all the other river will be fished hard like never before......Bewarned we'll all need a little more patentice before this season's over....my .02.....Os

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Row Quietly and fish a Cataraft
Release all Wild Fish----<'))>>{

For my part gentlemen, I post to help fellow fishermen and hopefully to get help.

I would like to know if my posts on what fish I see caught where are causing this kind of response, I WILL quit passing along information I thought others might like to know, if that is the consensus of the board.

Doubletake

gentlemen, just (my opinion)you could kiss and tell all you want, but unless you put in the time in makes no differance, no matter what, the info is out, there depends on how hard you want to look, and even when you do find it have to know how to use it, was told once for lake washington silvers that tht magwart in fire stripe was knocking em dead went out got 4 went out the next day couldn't buy a bite guess thats why they call it fishing,

I'm with Doug on this one, if you tell somebody all the secrets of the fishing world doesn't mean they are gonna use them. It looks as if alot of us are just sittin around all day talking about fishin on the BB. When we are actually wishing we could go fishing. How many guys really bite on the "river reports" as being gospel and head out the minute they here something??? I'm guessing probally not many. My .02 anyway!

Gotta side with fp on this one.

While it may be somewhat true that posting info. won't create "instant experts" that will anhililate(sp) all the runs, posting that info. does have a measurable effect on the number of people fishing a given river. I see it happen here on the coast constantly.

Whether it be Bob's reports(no offense Bob), fishing and hunting news, the Seattle/Tacoma papers, or people on this board, when these groups start talking, a semi-peaceful day disappears.....QUICKLY.

Some rivers are ruined by this situation for the forseeable future (re: wynoochee, satsop, cowlitz, bogachiel, etc...) but there are many other gems that are quickly becoming "little cowlitzs" because of loose lips. True story.

I don't know, maybe I want a chance at perfect conditions in an impossible situation. There seems to be alot more impossible situations these days. All I know is I've paid my dues over 20+ years of doing this. No one showed me what to do, I explored with maps and my feet and yes, I take personally spots that get mentioned by bragging, non-thinking dim-bulbs....spots that I learned about through time, money and lots of effort.

E-mail the bragging sessions!

Forgive me if I am wrong, but isn't this board supposed be a "Fishing Forum"? I would assume that to mean all things fishy, including which rivers are hot at the time.

I have found this forum to be quite informative and very entertaining at times, but I also take things with a grain of salt. I have read a lot of river reports and have yet to run right down to that river.

While I do agree that honest reports can ruin a day on the river, find it hard to believe that anyone would read a post, or article (F&HN/Fishing & Hunting Lies), and run right out to cast a line and expect to catch fish.

I think that by pressuring folks to email "secret messages" we would be creating a hostile "us against them" attitude that could possibly spill over to the fishin' hole.

C'mon and share, We all fish..

Just my opinion.


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"Just Say No To Sovereign Nations!"

There are NO secret rivers or secret spots anywhere in this state.Do you guy's really think you are the only ones fishing them?If you don't want to tell someone about "your secret spot" or "your secret egg cure",etc. than don't, but don't critisize other's because they want to share a common interest.I enjoy talking to people who fish the SAME rivers I fish.Maybe you all should have your own shhhhh(secret bulletin board)shhhh!later,secret

I can understand the way you feel. My fishing mentor has told me to be tight lipped about our zipperlip. He's fished the same river section for 25 years and has no desire to fish anywhere else except Alaska. I don't post about our zipperlip and it makes me mad to see other people post about it on this board or other boards. It made my mentor and the locals mad when they blab about it in fishing magazines. They even named my favorite hole in an interview with a fisheries biologist.

If a stranger comes up and asks how's fishing we'll tell them its slow when we catch fish. Lots of people come just to ask for information. If a car drives by when I'm taking a fish to my cooler(yes its tagged), I'll drop it in the brush. The only people I give information to are the people that we know.

However it is nice to get a fishing report once in a while. Nothing wrong with suggesting which rivers are good to fish or point them to a geographical location. Not good to discuss fishing holes. Email is appropriate for details.

If you told me the Cowlitz was red hot I wouldn't go there. I've never fished any of the Puget Sound or Grays Harbor rivers either. Don't get me wrong there are some beautiful rivers there and maybe some day I'd like to do a little exploring. Just too many people and too much traffic.

Eric ... guess what? Things are just going to get worse. As fishing opportunities decline around the state's population base, people are going to look elsewhere. The Seattle metro population has nearly doubled in the last 25 years. As south sound populations explode, you're going to see a huge increase in pressure down your way.

F&H News has been around a long time, so has STS, so was the TV show 'Fishing the West'. How many countless other articles and reports have their been? How long have the Seattle papers given a report for out here? A long time

Publicity for the coastal rivers has been around a long time, longer than either of us have been fishing them. I honestly don't think that (with perhaps the exception of some very small waters that no one ever knew about) you can pinpoint the major increases in pressure solely to any form of discussion about them. As one who spends hundreds of days on the water, I've seen what I'd call a "selective increase" in pressure.

Opportunities that cease to exist in one area shift pressure to another, reopenings or renewed opportunitues serve to relieve it.

Cases in point: hatchery steelhead traffic on the N. coastal rivers has decreased since I've been fishing out here, despite all the hub-bub you point out; our recent full C&R season here on the coast saw a sharp decline in outside traffic. Coincidence? Doubtful, fishing was outstanding that whole native season and plenty of people knew about it, yet, with the same regs as other areas, meat / trophy hunters stayed in their local areas. Did you see an immediate decrease in traffic on the Hump with the king / wild silver closures a few years back? Any coincidence that the Queets saw a large increase, especially in the upper end, when it was pulled off of C&R last year?

That being said, I don't like seeing "fish behind this rock in this hole" discussion ... it's one of the reason that with the sole exception of well-known terminal areas that I don't put such information in my reports ... a little info doesn't hurt, we've all been in need of it at one time or another, but you gotta walk a fine line My $.02.

most rivers are a 1-2 hour drive for me.
i dont need to know where you catch your fish (let me figure that out myself), but it would be nice to know that there are fish running in a river system before i make that drive.

When i came to this fishing board i didnt really know the "rules" of the fishing board so im never gonna post where i caught fish again ive gotten one or two emails, When i posted somthing about a river that i thought had no fish in it. I still think that it takes alot of skill to hook a fish, and I think that 50% of the people that you see out there most of the time, dont really have that skill.

Ryan Sedy

Oh come on. There are very few secrets left. I feel that giving a little advice is good sportsmanship. If your local rivers are fishless and you are going to make a drive do you not like a little advice? I mean if you do not want to give some friendly advice do not but to get upset about someone else doing so. Kind of self centered no? I thank all that will give me a thums up on a river I am going to drive a couple hours to. If I catch fish there or not is up to me.

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dank
Keep The Rivers Clean!

I think its OK to give general info on a river such as, if there are fish or not, direction to areas that are already well known. Things to that affect.

I never tell people about my zipperlip places accept my clossest fishing buddies and relitives. I make sure to tell them that if they dont keep the secret they will die a slow death, so they ushually keep the secret. But most importantly the people I do tell must gain my trust. and have the qualities of a true sport fisherman not a meat fisherman even if they were my clossest friend.

But ushually even if the secrets are kept a few people always find out anyway just by dumb luck.

The strange thing about the peninsula is that even though everybody know about it the presure hasent changed dramaticaly. Im a life long resident of the peninsula and have been taught the ways of the steelhead fiherman since I was old enough to have the paitience and drive. My addiction began at the age of 8 in 1984. It seems to me there are less people fishing out her now than when I started. I asked my dad the other day If he thought the presure out here had gotten worse over the years. He told me he thought it had been about the same since the mid 70s.

There are are plenty of places I go and rerely see other fisherman and thoose are the places I keep to myself. But sometimes I do fish in the combat zones but mostly during the brat seasons. and thoose are the place I tell people about.

You know nothing pissess me off more then hearing about someone catching fish out of MY secret hole. And I must say there really are very few secrets left in this world, just ask Bill Clinton. Actually I think we all share a common passion here, otherwise we would all be on a porno site. So sharing info and asking for it should be permisable. I do agree that emailing the info around is well within the scope of things. I do wish to thank those who have offered advise to me in the past, but don't tell anyone, OK,it is our secret.

Well said Kalamabama, I couldn't agree with you more.

As for fp, that was a great rant...suggest you carry on at http://www.pissandmoan.com .

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See ya on the River!

I agree with Lester, general info is a good
thing. I will continue to post my experince on this board, and look foward to read fellow fisherman's experince.

In the end all things become one........... and a river run's thru it.

I for one do NOT have a problem with information being posted as such,If someone wants specific river and round about location I give it(when they e-mail me)
My reasons are my own ,I watched the Nisqually decline to where it is now due to one thing fishing PRESSURE
Those of us who had the opertunity to catch one of Wild Brutes knows what I talking about,So untill you have walked a mile in my shoes,and grown up on a river where now I can only drive over and know that I can not fish for Steelhead anylonger....you have no freaking idea what it's like.

Anyone who has exchanged e-mails with me or who I've been lucky enough to fish with knows what kind of person I am .

this Board is really starting to bum me out

It's a sport and without the fish there is NO sport


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Row Quietly and fish a Cataraft
Release all Wild Fish----<'))>>{

Bob,

Your points are well taken, However, what fp and myself are saying is there are noticeable effects that come into play in the short term (week to week...day to day) from too much talking. Especially with the internet going full steam. I have some semi-discreet rivers I fish regularly that when they get mentioned quickly get crowded.....it is noticeable.

As you mention, it boils down to too many people working a dwindling resource. All the more reason to be careful what we say. When there were more options, it probably wasn't so important. Now, I think it is.

The bottom line is that there are really no
secret spots,just because one found a honey hole oh say 10 years ago doesn't mean it wasn't fished daily by 50 people 20 years ago
The only thing I see is if one were to start
steelhead fishing today,it's easier to get
dialed in then in the past.when you had to work hard and learn/discover and explore on your own and every one and thing was top secret.Rookies these days have it alot easier
then the rookies of say 15-20 years ago.But
you still have to have that feel/presentation and the ability to read water in all conditions.That is something you learn and can't from the NET.Just because
one river and section is hot today,doesn't mean it's rockin the next.On hands training is the best teacher,always was and always will be.Most people go with what they know and not with what they have read.Good luck'
STRIKE ZONE

Honestly guys, if you had any confidence in your own fishing abilities you wouldn't worry about telling people where you are catching fish and how many. There is plenty of water out there and killer numbers of fish. I was on the Kalama yesterday and hooked two winter fish and one summer run, but that doesn't mean that everyone will go running up there and if you all do then I will be more proud of myself knowing when I catch more today or tomorrow that I have caught these fish behind many other fisherman.

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Stlhdr1,

This has nothing to do with confidence in my abilities....I know what I can do.

It just seems odd that some of us are so open to inviting competition when it can potentially be lessened with a little tighter lips.

Yes, fish can be caught behind others but that chance becomes considerably less when loose lips create 25 boats going through a hole one after another.

What would you rather have? A peaceful experience with 4-5 other boats who,like yourself found a fishery through their own time and effort or that same fishery you discovered but got leaked out and now get to share with 20+ other boats?

Sorry, but anyone who says the latter is a liar.

Eric,

I agree with the premise of your argument, but I also think you're being somewhat unrealistic. A peaceful drift with 4-5 other boats is only going to happen when there aren't many fish being caught. If you can name me a drift on any river that will only have 4-5 boats on it when there are good numbers of fish, I'll drink that river dry. Now, there are certain no-name rivers where you can find decent action with little company, but those aren't the ones that get named on the BB's. Face it, with the numbers of fishers out there, you're going to have company whether they hear about it from F&H News, STS, the web, the paper, or whatever.

Of course, email is a more appropriate way to discuss rivers or holes in detail. But I don't think that saying "I got a couple on the Nooch today" is a major issue. Saying "I caught six on the Nooch today at the old White Bridge hole drifting eggs and a red sin-n-glo just below the boat ramp" would be a stupid thing to say, unless you were looking for lots of company the next day.

Let's all just use our heads here. I think the pressure seen on area rivers is simply a fuction of the number of anglers, rather than any particular news/information outlet. But, one should be discrete when discussing rivers and holes.

Fish on.......

All good fisherman have their favorite rivers and holes they fish. Reading water and presentation are the keys to catching fish consistently.If someone want's to put a post on here about their fishing sucess on a certain river it's a free country and they have a right to do that. I personally don't do that but it's nice to know how good of a run a certain river is getting.There are very few secret holes or rivers left and people don't give those up on here anyway. I know a guy who came to my house to show me pictures of fish he caught and trying to impress me I guess and then lied to me about were he caught them,I guess he thought I would run right down there and fish there to.What a jerk!Needless to say I don't fish with him. Only inexperienced fisherman will go to a river that they haven't fished before because of a good report and then they won't have much sucess and will probably never return anyway.

Well eric, one thing that is nice is with my job my weekends are during the week. So I see less pressure anyway. I do get burnt out seeing a lot of people when fishing, but I'm used to seeing alot of people, and that is what has made me the fisherman I am. That's why I love going up to the penninsula and fishing those rivers. Most of the finess tactics I use down here people don't use up there, you know long leaders lighter line and beautiful eggs, proper presentations it all adds up to big numbers of fish. I know this isn't a topic to talk about how many fish everyone catches or to flaunt numbers but I usually catch 150-180 steelhead a year, and 350-450 silvers a year, and 100-125 chinook a year myself not counting my side arm buddy who is a better fisherman than I am, and he usually fishes next to me whenever I go fishing. Loosen up a little and keep trying harder because the fish have always been there and there are many more coming.

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$14.95 for a Piss and Moan teeshirt! Geeeez, have you ever heard of anything so outrageous in your life. $14.95!!!!! Can't believe it. I'm not going to spend $14.95 for a damn teeshirt, I don't care what it says on it. Don't even get me started with the $5.00 bucks shipping and handling.

Spend a day at Reiter or Blue Creek and commune with human kind.

you all feal you have something special thats great if you want to share thats great to but to think your giving away secrets,(maybe)personally i wouldn't call much of it secrets but maybe skill and luck, yes luck i'v seen to many times, fish this this way or use this that way. i say this because i went fishing with a guide and brother inlaw same poles same line same reels same boat same k15 he caught all the fish me not one but this has happened in reverse situations i caught all the fish call it what you want again i call it fishing (just my opinion) good luck to all (forgot one thing) what fun would it be hearing about the fish you didn't catch

[This message has been edited by DOUG KELLY (edited 11-29-2000).]

I too absolutely hate people that try to use me as their fish finder. I've been burned too many times. Most of the time I fish certain drifts that I can have all to myself and I work them very carefully. There might be one or two Steelhead in there and that's it unless fish are on the move. A few chances at a fish or two if you work it right. Once I find where they like to lay each year I can usually hook at least one a morning. To have someone see you either with one on or packing out a hatchery to eat and then show up with three friends the next day and muck up the drift is very low but it has happened more than I can count. Of course none of them touch a fish but I also don't touch a fish with four other guys walking and splashing around. When they give up...voila...fish on! Same said for word of mouth types.....most people I know that have fished even longer than I would never tell specifically where fish are being caught to anyone unless they know it's a person that will show respect for their find. I tell only these people because I know I won't be seeing them tomorrow.
Steelheading is like hunting. Half the fun and challenge is finding them on your own. If you aren't willing to do that then hire a guide.

I have an idea. Post a fake report about your river or spot a day or two before you plan on going. It would go something like this:

"The fishing was horrible! There musta been 75 guys out there and I only saw 2 real nasty dark ones on the bank. I talked tho an old timer and he said that the indians will be netting for another 3 days. But I did hear that the (fill in blank) river is real hot right now. I think that I am going to try that one in the next couple of days."

I know that it's a dirty low down thing to do, but hey, it just might work.
BTW- I won't be posting bogus reports.

Dagumit Billy Bob you took my idea
People can post what ever they want,but it's wrong to expect fishing reports from all of us, if it's the middle of the run,I might say something but if I hit it at the begining of the run with very little media pressure around...My lips will be tighter than a lock jaw Silver...Os
Some of us had to pay our dues

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Row Quietly and fish a Cataraft
Release all Wild Fish----<'))>>{

I thought the idea behind this bulletin board was for fisherman to share information and pass along stories about the good times we all have out fishing!All you guys who want to keep your secrets or post bogus information should find another hobby!!lester

Share with the world your most favorite hole or drift to catch steelhead in. Be specific.

fp its the same as all you guides telling the people the same stuff over the phone.

A.k.a. "Guide-hype".....Though I don't get the same sense of anticipation when I read it on the internet.

My 2 cents: I think it's a poor idea to post to big audiences about any relatively low pressured small rivers or less known and fished sections of medium rivers. I also think that fishers who broadcast they catch hundreds of fish per year and mop up behind other guys that aren't catching fish won't get the kind of respect they seem to think they will. For well known medium and large rivers that have good brat runs I don't have a problem with reports about how the water conditions and fishing is in general. Skip the specific holes. I don't think that most reports are for bragging; only some of them. Most are to be helpful by sharing benign info. To help people that don't get to fish very often it's fine to let them know which of the popular rivers are worth fishing or not at given times. Within those simple guidelines you will likely see only minimal overall affect on your fishing world. This is the "info age" and you can't control it with put downs. Make some feasable guideline suggestions, then just deal with the reality. - RT



[This message has been edited by Reel Truth (edited 12-03-2000).]