#1003285 - 02/12/19 03:05 PM
A Most Practical And Realistic Point Of View
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Juvenile at Sea
Registered: 01/03/17
Posts: 155
Loc: Hood Canal
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#1003333 - 02/12/19 10:44 PM
Re: A Most Practical And Realistic Point Of View
[Re: Great Bender]
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Ornamental Rice Bowl
Registered: 11/24/03
Posts: 12766
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Count me among the salmon RACISTS!
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"Let every angler who loves to fish think what it would mean to him to find the fish were gone." (Zane Grey) "If you don't kill them, they will spawn." (Carcassman) The Keen Eye MDLong Live the Kings!
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#1003389 - 02/13/19 11:08 AM
Re: A Most Practical And Realistic Point Of View
[Re: Great Bender]
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River Nutrients
Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7413
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
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If you want wild salmon, if you want naturally spawning runs, just stop planting hatchery fish. Regardless of their genetic history, crossing, "genetic pollution", and whatever if you STOP putting any hatchery fish on the grounds and let the remaining spawners spawn you will end up with wild fish that are genetically adapted to the current situation. Anybody who thinks that if we could bring genetically pure salmon back from 5000 BCE and that these genetic super fish would quickly repopulate and outcompete existing fish simply down's understand evolution, geologic, and climate change.
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#1003429 - 02/13/19 06:58 PM
Re: A Most Practical And Realistic Point Of View
[Re: Great Bender]
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Ornamental Rice Bowl
Registered: 11/24/03
Posts: 12766
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To ALL participating in this thread. The link above was posted yesterday to draw attention to John Beath's piece.... promoting the "fish is a fish is a fish" agenda. To appreciate the full context of this issue, make sure to read each blog entry starting with Ron Garner's letter to the Senate Committee on Feb 11. The next piece on Feb 12 expounds on Beath's "a fish is a fish" position. The third piece today Feb 13 is Pat Patillo's rebuttal to Beath's blog entry.
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"Let every angler who loves to fish think what it would mean to him to find the fish were gone." (Zane Grey) "If you don't kill them, they will spawn." (Carcassman) The Keen Eye MDLong Live the Kings!
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#1003435 - 02/13/19 07:32 PM
Re: A Most Practical And Realistic Point Of View
[Re: eyeFISH]
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Ornamental Rice Bowl
Registered: 11/24/03
Posts: 12766
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Count me among the supporters of the reasoned response delivered by Mr. Patillo.
Thanks, Pat!
_________________________
"Let every angler who loves to fish think what it would mean to him to find the fish were gone." (Zane Grey) "If you don't kill them, they will spawn." (Carcassman) The Keen Eye MDLong Live the Kings!
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#1003463 - 02/14/19 07:55 AM
Re: A Most Practical And Realistic Point Of View
[Re: Great Bender]
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Repeat Spawner
Registered: 08/02/12
Posts: 1052
Loc: In a drift boat...
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Not all hatchery fish are created equal. King of the reach comes to mind...
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YOUR MOTHER IS A TULE!
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#1003483 - 02/14/19 10:10 AM
Re: A Most Practical And Realistic Point Of View
[Re: Great Bender]
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River Nutrients
Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 13521
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#1003484 - 02/14/19 10:13 AM
Re: A Most Practical And Realistic Point Of View
[Re: Great Bender]
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Spawner
Registered: 02/06/08
Posts: 506
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#1003488 - 02/14/19 10:59 AM
Re: A Most Practical And Realistic Point Of View
[Re: Great Bender]
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Juvenile at Sea
Registered: 04/04/10
Posts: 199
Loc: United States
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Interesting that John Beath, who worked at Rivers Inlet and holds a line class record for a 51 lb Chinook on 6 lb test, has a "fish is a fish is a fish" attitude.
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#1003551 - 02/14/19 05:23 PM
Re: A Most Practical And Realistic Point Of View
[Re: Great Bender]
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Ornamental Rice Bowl
Registered: 11/24/03
Posts: 12766
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The "Fish is a fish is a fish" war cry is promoted only by those who stand to profit from maximally exploiting the resource REGARDLESS of the perilous consequences it may pose for wild fish populations.
_________________________
"Let every angler who loves to fish think what it would mean to him to find the fish were gone." (Zane Grey) "If you don't kill them, they will spawn." (Carcassman) The Keen Eye MDLong Live the Kings!
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#1003571 - 02/15/19 07:02 AM
Re: A Most Practical And Realistic Point Of View
[Re: Great Bender]
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River Nutrients
Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7413
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
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I know from experience that the thinking in the 70s was just that, a fish was a fish and they were reasonably interchangeable. Research has proven that wrong.
What i think most folks don't get, or don't want to get, is that our ability to exploit fish (and other naturally-produced resources) exceeds the ability of the system to produce them.
For argument's sake, let's say that the only thing holding down Chinook recovery in PS is habitat. But, in order to maximize our rate of recovery we simultaneously close all fisheries on Chinook and fully fund all the habitat restoration so that in 4 years we have fully "restored" habitat. How many Chinook will that fully functional habitat produce? We have that number. How many can we all catch? We have that number too. Is that catch number of purely wild fish as large as the mixed, primarily hatchery number we have today?
On one PS river, the goal of the tribe there was an annual harvest of 20K hatchery Chinook. Personally, I believe that at ecosystem-based goals, wild fish could support this but who would put 200K Chinook on the grounds? Anyway, the "best" models suggest a much lower sustainable harvest of wild fish.
If we want to insist on killing a lot of fish, and living in the PNW, and letting the human population grow, then hatchery production is the only viable answer.
And we haven't even talked about the fact that the North Pacific, right now, can't support the Chinook and coho going out there.
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