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#1003861 - 02/18/19 11:04 AM the Skokomish
Krijack Offline
Three Time Spawner

Registered: 06/03/06
Posts: 1531
Loc: Tacoma
Ok, I know it is not somewhere most of you care about, but it is fairly near to me, provides a fairly high quality fish that will readily bite eggs if not harassed, is easily fished from the shore, and has good numbers. So, if the snagging could be controlled, it could actually be a fairly good fishery. That said, about 1.5 years ago I emailed the department and communicated with the person who was said to be in charge of the area. At that time he told me that the tribe was just waiting for a reasonable proposition to control the fishery and that he was sure something would be worked out. Then came the departments announcement in the spring of last year that they would not back down and we would be fishing. Of course, when the NOF came up, they caved and it was shut back down At that time the State would not comment, but the Tribe stated that it was not really discussed and that they were willing to talk. With that back ground, I decided to email the State and see what was going on. I am not sure if I should copy and post the responses I got back so I will just paraphrase. Basically my contact stated that when the tribal leadership from all the tribes informed the state that if they would not discuss the Skokomish at NOF and that if State tried to discuss it or open a season they would all walk away from negotiations and essentially shut down the state fishery . Of course, the state gave in and we got no season. Of course, they say that trying to get it open again this year and are supposed to start talking about opening it up, but I have little faith that it will happen. I am totally unsure if putting pressure on the groups is better, or to allow them to continue lying and hope that by not revealing the truth both sides may try to come out looking like they are actually working together. If the truth comes out, will the tribes simply get ticked off and walk away from any negotiations. It really is hard to say.

There should be several areas of concern if the above scenario is true

1. This means the Tribes can dictate terms and basically shut us out of just about any individual fishery at any time.

And

2. The tribes have no problem openly lying and the state will not correct them or stand up for themselves

and

3. The state is afraid to reveal what is really going on at NOF.

The reason I was told the state is giving in goes back to what has been stated by others. The State is afraid that the Tribes will sue and claim that if the ESA numbers dictate a fishery, they get 100% of the allowable take, as needed, to get their 50% share . Essentially, any conservation measures first apply to the state and then to the tribes. If ESA dictates that only a 4% take and the tribe needs it to get their 50% of harvestable fish, then no one else fishes. I assume that they would still be subject to the 4% take, but would be allocated all of it, meaning they still might not get their total 50%, but would be allowed 100% of the total harvest.

Hopefully I understood it all, but I think that is the essence of what is going on. I think the state is in error on this, but they are unwilling to take any chances. Unfortunately it really does feel like the end of fishing is coming. With the tribes starting their own hatcheries and the state cutting down their numbers, there may be very little leverage the state will have. I understand the dilemma, and I have no answer, but I am upset that the public was basically lied to.





Edited by Krijack (02/18/19 11:12 AM)

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#1003868 - 02/18/19 11:54 AM Re: the Skokomish [Re: Krijack]
5 * General Evo Offline
Lord of the Chums

Registered: 03/29/14
Posts: 6825
if thats the case, the state needs to go in and demolish the George Adams hatchery....
_________________________
BLM IS A TERRORIST ORGANIZATION
ANTIFA IS A TERRORIST ORGANIZATION


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#1003869 - 02/18/19 12:14 PM Re: the Skokomish [Re: Krijack]
Bay wolf Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 10/26/12
Posts: 1075
Loc: Graham, WA
Krijack, Hopefully your post is not as totally naive as it appears. EVERYONE who has even cursory knowledge of the REAL fish management in this state know's that the Tribes are calling ALL the shots.

Go back and look at the posts on "Opening the North of Falcon Meetings"

You will clearly see all the truth's laid bare. The WDFW is completely subservient to the Northwest Indian Fisheries Commission. Ron Warren and Mike Grossmann have kissed the collective Tribes as$'s so much that they probably have permanent Gold Card status at all the casinos. The money that "gushes" into the politicians coffers guarantees that nothing will change, no matter how much the recreational community cries and gnash their teeth.

ONLY LOUD,PROLONGED, FOCUSED AND UNITED PROTESTS WILL WORK! AND ONLY IF WE ALL ARE WILLING TO CALL THE BLUFF OF THE TRIBES AND LOSE A SEASON OR TWO.

We came close, very close in our champaign to break the strangle hold that the tribes have when we went after the secrecy of the North of Falcon. Unfortunately, true to form, the recreational community did what they do best, which is splinter up and bitch behind a keyboard instead of action.



_________________________
"Forgiveness is between them and God. My job is to arrange the meeting."

1Sgt U.S. Army (Ret)

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#1003870 - 02/18/19 12:44 PM Re: the Skokomish [Re: Krijack]
MetalheadMatt Offline
Fry

Registered: 09/12/16
Posts: 33
As long as the State let's the Tribes have the sole exclusive rights to the multi billion dollar slot machine industry in our state, they will always afford to have the upper hand. Once the State decides to use this as a powerful bargaining chip, with the tribes, things will change. If they don't want to negotiate, let all business tribal and non tribal have a crack at having slots, and spread out that multi billion dollar wealth, and reap the tax benefits.
We have giveth and we can taketh away, and see them cringe when their pocket books take a monstrouse hit.
When an entity loses 60-70% of their revenue, it tends to make them re-evaluate their position


Edited by MetalheadMatt (02/18/19 12:47 PM)

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#1003871 - 02/18/19 12:57 PM Re: the Skokomish [Re: Krijack]
Larry B Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 3020
Loc: University Place and Whidbey I...
The Skokomish issue is directly the result of a legal opinion issue from the Federal agency tied directly to the tribes and their welfare. WDFW stated that they would be reviewing that opinion. Well, here we sit waiting and waiting.

If the tribal threat is to trash the whole NOF process if the Skok is brought into the negotiations that is simply why WDFW needs its own NOAA/NMFS issued permit. I have been told second or third hand that NOAA has indicated the permit process could take up to 5 years and that the State could not ride on the tribal permit during that period. Truth? I don't know but if so that threat of the State not being able to prosecute a fishery while a permit application is under review is simply unacceptable.

At the same time the current situation is also unacceptable and amounts to another standoff which really boils down to the tribes winning.

So, WDFW, what is your status on the Skok?
_________________________
Remember to immediately record your catch or you may become the catch!

It's the person who has done nothing who is sure nothing can be done. (Ewing)

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#1003872 - 02/18/19 01:03 PM Re: the Skokomish [Re: Krijack]
Bay wolf Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 10/26/12
Posts: 1075
Loc: Graham, WA
CHECK THIS OUT, PROOF WDFW IS LICKING THE BOOTS OF THE NWIFC!

A SAMPLE OF THE BULLSHI#
_________________________
"Forgiveness is between them and God. My job is to arrange the meeting."

1Sgt U.S. Army (Ret)

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#1003873 - 02/18/19 01:08 PM Re: the Skokomish [Re: Krijack]
Great Bender Offline
Juvenile at Sea

Registered: 01/03/17
Posts: 155
Loc: Hood Canal
Krijack--I'm also a patron of the Skok, and I want to offer you props for fighting the good fight.

The calendar reads it's about time for Ron Warren and Mike Grossman to encore their annual "Let's Get The River Back!" dog and pony show. Recall, if you will, last Spring's Kitsap Poggy Club meeting where they boldly proclaimed "WDFW litigation would soon commence", and the Skok would "once again be opened to Recs in a prompt and orderly fashion".

As they are both mid to upper level Management, I suggest you concentrate your energy on Ron and Mike...I can assure you some serious lip service, followed by partial media attention...then crickets. Judging on their past performance--it's very close to a sure bet.

Anyone out there who was present at that meeting? Can you verify and/or add to what took place?

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#1003877 - 02/18/19 02:14 PM Re: the Skokomish [Re: Krijack]
spokey9 Offline
Juvenile at Sea

Registered: 05/30/02
Posts: 211
Loc: Ravenden, AR
I used to like fishing the skok and it was one of the few rivers the wife actually enjoyed fishing. When the tide would come up and push most of the people out of the lower holes I'd do pretty ggood tossing vibraxes.

Sadly I've given up on the dept and the state ever representing the sportsmen that fund the majority of their budget and produce most of economic activity involving the fish. My whole life I swore I'd never leave Washington because of the amazing fish we have and some of the beautiful rivers in which to chase after them (not that the skok really fits that description lol). After the past few short seasons and the department's focus on boat fisheries in the salt that started to change. About 2 months ago things came together in a way the wife and I had an option to stay in Washington or start over in another state. Our decision basically came down to all the garbage the tribes pull and the lack of leadership from the state to challenge them. So we're leaving and the worst part is I don't see myself coming back because I don't see a future where things get better in Washington anymore.
_________________________
Beware of the 3 inch Perch

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#1003880 - 02/18/19 02:45 PM Re: the Skokomish [Re: Krijack]
Bay wolf Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 10/26/12
Posts: 1075
Loc: Graham, WA
Here’s a novel thought. All of you that live near, or used to fish the Skok, get together. Pick a date, publicize it as much as possible and ALL SHOW UP and fish. Stay on the side of the river that (was) public access. Call WDFW enforcement just prior to walking down to the river and tell them what your doing. Contact the editors of all the local papers and tell them your all going fishing. Have family members there with cell phones to video the response and what happens.

THIS IS EXACTLY HOW THE TRIBES BROUGHT ABOUT THE BOLDT DECISION. NOT BY INTERNET WHINE OR PIE IN THE SKY WISHING, BUT BY PUBLIC ACTION.

Doing this will force the issue into the face of the Governor, because there’s nothing he hates more than bad press!

So, Krijacks, why don’t you take up the challenge and start organizing this right away. Hell, if you get this off the ground. I promise you, I’ll participate.
_________________________
"Forgiveness is between them and God. My job is to arrange the meeting."

1Sgt U.S. Army (Ret)

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#1003886 - 02/18/19 03:53 PM Re: the Skokomish [Re: Krijack]
Jake Dogfish Offline
Spawner

Registered: 06/24/00
Posts: 554
Loc: Des Moines
Count me out on the illegal fishing plan Baywolf. It looks like you would not participate either but want others to do it for you. Similar to those that preach shooting wolves and seals on sight but don’t have the guts to commit crimes themselves.
Now your other idea “Call the bluff of the tribes and lose a season or two”.
How are the tribes bluffing? It seems like they hold all the cards.

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#1003888 - 02/18/19 04:37 PM Re: the Skokomish [Re: Krijack]
Bay wolf Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 10/26/12
Posts: 1075
Loc: Graham, WA
Actually Jake, the idea of fishing the Skok was floated by Ron Warren! He made the remarks when explaining the road block to WDFW entering into a lawsuit over the tribes claim to the river. According to Ron, having someone arrested for fishing the river would provide the nexus for a court action.

Before disparaging my character, you might want to ask exactly what I’ve done in the past. In addition, you can clearly read I gave my word I would participate, if it were organized and coordinated by someone. You see, I’ve been in the barrel and I know there are too many keyboard warriors like you to hope for any real change.
_________________________
"Forgiveness is between them and God. My job is to arrange the meeting."

1Sgt U.S. Army (Ret)

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#1003889 - 02/18/19 04:53 PM Re: the Skokomish [Re: Krijack]
Jake Dogfish Offline
Spawner

Registered: 06/24/00
Posts: 554
Loc: Des Moines
I must of missed where I should read where you said you would participate. If so, I apologize.

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#1003890 - 02/18/19 05:22 PM Re: the Skokomish [Re: Krijack]
Great Bender Offline
Juvenile at Sea

Registered: 01/03/17
Posts: 155
Loc: Hood Canal
Illegal fishing that results from a very questionable, and possibly illegal seizure?

Why is it not the time for the Courts to put this dispute to an end? As we continue to rue the potential outcome, the onslaught carries on. Get off your knees, and at least advocate that WDFW follows the litigation course they previously committed to...then left all the vocal, but non-committal, Recs twisting in the wind.

Real easy for the AG's staff to find the flat calm, and set a course for job security and pension benefits in the long run.


Edited by Great Bender (02/18/19 06:15 PM)
Edit Reason: punctuation/spelling

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#1003891 - 02/18/19 05:48 PM Re: the Skokomish [Re: Krijack]
Jake Dogfish Offline
Spawner

Registered: 06/24/00
Posts: 554
Loc: Des Moines
Are you guys saying that no one has been busted for illegal fishing at the Skokomish since it has been closed?

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#1003892 - 02/18/19 05:57 PM Re: the Skokomish [Re: Krijack]
Carcassman Online   content
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7413
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
It was the Tribes who very publicly fished in protest of the State's closures. Fishing was important enough for many of them to risk jail time. Heck, we won't even not buy licenses that support WDFW....

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#1003893 - 02/18/19 06:13 PM Re: the Skokomish [Re: Carcassman]
Bay wolf Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 10/26/12
Posts: 1075
Loc: Graham, WA
Originally Posted By: Carcassman
It was the Tribes who very publicly fished in protest of the State's closures. Fishing was important enough for many of them to risk jail time. Heck, we won't even not buy licenses that support WDFW....


Exactly!! Like Bender said, “get off your knees”. Stop bitchin about how wrong this is and DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT. Hell, think about it. The most we could be charged with is probably treaspasing. And what, the Skokes are gonna put us in their jail? Highly doubt that, it would be WAY to problematic and draw to much media attention to them. That leaves WDFW and local law enforcement. WDFW arrest and jail us for protesting a claim that THEY are supposed to be fighting? Doubt it. So that leaves local law enforcement. Their response will be determined by the number of protesters and how much media coverage there is. If there is a spokesperson amoung the group, and we agree to leave peacefully after having our say, then that will most likely be the outcome. Bottom line is, it WILL FORCE THE ISSUE TO BE HEARD IN THE COURT OF PUBLIC OPINION, which is exactly where the Skoks and WDFW DONT WANT IT TO BE HEARD.

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#1003894 - 02/18/19 06:16 PM Re: the Skokomish [Re: Krijack]
Jake Dogfish Offline
Spawner

Registered: 06/24/00
Posts: 554
Loc: Des Moines
When was the last time Public opinion went against the tribes? Why would it now?

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#1003895 - 02/18/19 06:18 PM Re: the Skokomish [Re: Krijack]
Great Bender Offline
Juvenile at Sea

Registered: 01/03/17
Posts: 155
Loc: Hood Canal
There's absolutely no way I could have said it any better...tip of the hat to you, Wolf!

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#1003896 - 02/18/19 07:09 PM Re: the Skokomish [Re: Krijack]
Great Bender Offline
Juvenile at Sea

Registered: 01/03/17
Posts: 155
Loc: Hood Canal
https://www.kitsapsun.com/story/news/201...iver/363768002/

Krijack, Jake (and others)--take a look at this link, and put all the pieces together.

Public opinion is what it is, and voluntary forfeiture of rights is something entirely different. You can't bring about change--or right a wrong--by sitting on your @ss.

Previously, Rec sportsmen were fishing the Skok along w/the Tribe for decades and longer. We pay taxes and fees to our State to protect, preserve and maintain our rights and privileges--and Co-Management means cooperation, along with co-existent preservation of resources, opportunity and access.

Get some backing from advocate groups, schedule a "session" along the once public bank of the river--and stand up for what you value. Like the Wolf, I and hopefully many others ,will follow suit. Fish, or cut bait...


Edited by Great Bender (02/18/19 07:12 PM)
Edit Reason: punctuation

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#1003900 - 02/18/19 10:51 PM Re: the Skokomish [Re: Krijack]
Streamer Offline
No Stars for You!

Registered: 11/08/06
Posts: 2271
Loc: T-Town
I hope this is something that gets organized and put to rest so that the river can rightfully be shared by all stakeholders. Count me in for any protest/fish-in. This has gone on long enough.
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