Ok, I know it is not somewhere most of you care about, but it is fairly near to me, provides a fairly high quality fish that will readily bite eggs if not harassed, is easily fished from the shore, and has good numbers. So, if the snagging could be controlled, it could actually be a fairly good fishery. That said, about 1.5 years ago I emailed the department and communicated with the person who was said to be in charge of the area. At that time he told me that the tribe was just waiting for a reasonable proposition to control the fishery and that he was sure something would be worked out. Then came the departments announcement in the spring of last year that they would not back down and we would be fishing. Of course, when the NOF came up, they caved and it was shut back down At that time the State would not comment, but the Tribe stated that it was not really discussed and that they were willing to talk. With that back ground, I decided to email the State and see what was going on. I am not sure if I should copy and post the responses I got back so I will just paraphrase. Basically my contact stated that when the tribal leadership from all the tribes informed the state that if they would not discuss the Skokomish at NOF and that if State tried to discuss it or open a season they would all walk away from negotiations and essentially shut down the state fishery . Of course, the state gave in and we got no season. Of course, they say that trying to get it open again this year and are supposed to start talking about opening it up, but I have little faith that it will happen. I am totally unsure if putting pressure on the groups is better, or to allow them to continue lying and hope that by not revealing the truth both sides may try to come out looking like they are actually working together. If the truth comes out, will the tribes simply get ticked off and walk away from any negotiations. It really is hard to say.

There should be several areas of concern if the above scenario is true

1. This means the Tribes can dictate terms and basically shut us out of just about any individual fishery at any time.

And

2. The tribes have no problem openly lying and the state will not correct them or stand up for themselves

and

3. The state is afraid to reveal what is really going on at NOF.

The reason I was told the state is giving in goes back to what has been stated by others. The State is afraid that the Tribes will sue and claim that if the ESA numbers dictate a fishery, they get 100% of the allowable take, as needed, to get their 50% share . Essentially, any conservation measures first apply to the state and then to the tribes. If ESA dictates that only a 4% take and the tribe needs it to get their 50% of harvestable fish, then no one else fishes. I assume that they would still be subject to the 4% take, but would be allocated all of it, meaning they still might not get their total 50%, but would be allowed 100% of the total harvest.

Hopefully I understood it all, but I think that is the essence of what is going on. I think the state is in error on this, but they are unwilling to take any chances. Unfortunately it really does feel like the end of fishing is coming. With the tribes starting their own hatcheries and the state cutting down their numbers, there may be very little leverage the state will have. I understand the dilemma, and I have no answer, but I am upset that the public was basically lied to.

if thats the case, the state needs to go in and demolish the George Adams hatchery....

Krijack, Hopefully your post is not as totally naive as it appears. EVERYONE who has even cursory knowledge of the REAL fish management in this state know's that the Tribes are calling ALL the shots.

Go back and look at the posts on "Opening the North of Falcon Meetings"

You will clearly see all the truth's laid bare. The WDFW is completely subservient to the Northwest Indian Fisheries Commission. Ron Warren and Mike Grossmann have kissed the collective Tribes as$'s so much that they probably have permanent Gold Card status at all the casinos. The money that "gushes" into the politicians coffers guarantees that nothing will change, no matter how much the recreational community cries and gnash their teeth.

ONLY LOUD,PROLONGED, FOCUSED AND UNITED PROTESTS WILL WORK! AND ONLY IF WE ALL ARE WILLING TO CALL THE BLUFF OF THE TRIBES AND LOSE A SEASON OR TWO.

We came close, very close in our champaign to break the strangle hold that the tribes have when we went after the secrecy of the North of Falcon. Unfortunately, true to form, the recreational community did what they do best, which is splinter up and bitch behind a keyboard instead of action.

As long as the State let's the Tribes have the sole exclusive rights to the multi billion dollar slot machine industry in our state, they will always afford to have the upper hand. Once the State decides to use this as a powerful bargaining chip, with the tribes, things will change. If they don't want to negotiate, let all business tribal and non tribal have a crack at having slots, and spread out that multi billion dollar wealth, and reap the tax benefits.
We have giveth and we can taketh away, and see them cringe when their pocket books take a monstrouse hit.
When an entity loses 60-70% of their revenue, it tends to make them re-evaluate their position

The Skokomish issue is directly the result of a legal opinion issue from the Federal agency tied directly to the tribes and their welfare. WDFW stated that they would be reviewing that opinion. Well, here we sit waiting and waiting.

If the tribal threat is to trash the whole NOF process if the Skok is brought into the negotiations that is simply why WDFW needs its own NOAA/NMFS issued permit. I have been told second or third hand that NOAA has indicated the permit process could take up to 5 years and that the State could not ride on the tribal permit during that period. Truth? I don't know but if so that threat of the State not being able to prosecute a fishery while a permit application is under review is simply unacceptable.

At the same time the current situation is also unacceptable and amounts to another standoff which really boils down to the tribes winning.

So, WDFW, what is your status on the Skok?

CHECK THIS OUT, PROOF WDFW IS LICKING THE BOOTS OF THE NWIFC!

A SAMPLE OF THE BULLSHI#

Krijack--I'm also a patron of the Skok, and I want to offer you props for fighting the good fight.

The calendar reads it's about time for Ron Warren and Mike Grossman to encore their annual "Let's Get The River Back!" dog and pony show. Recall, if you will, last Spring's Kitsap Poggy Club meeting where they boldly proclaimed "WDFW litigation would soon commence", and the Skok would "once again be opened to Recs in a prompt and orderly fashion".

As they are both mid to upper level Management, I suggest you concentrate your energy on Ron and Mike...I can assure you some serious lip service, followed by partial media attention...then crickets. Judging on their past performance--it's very close to a sure bet.

Anyone out there who was present at that meeting? Can you verify and/or add to what took place?

I used to like fishing the skok and it was one of the few rivers the wife actually enjoyed fishing. When the tide would come up and push most of the people out of the lower holes I'd do pretty ggood tossing vibraxes.

Sadly I've given up on the dept and the state ever representing the sportsmen that fund the majority of their budget and produce most of economic activity involving the fish. My whole life I swore I'd never leave Washington because of the amazing fish we have and some of the beautiful rivers in which to chase after them (not that the skok really fits that description lol). After the past few short seasons and the department's focus on boat fisheries in the salt that started to change. About 2 months ago things came together in a way the wife and I had an option to stay in Washington or start over in another state. Our decision basically came down to all the garbage the tribes pull and the lack of leadership from the state to challenge them. So we're leaving and the worst part is I don't see myself coming back because I don't see a future where things get better in Washington anymore.

Here’s a novel thought. All of you that live near, or used to fish the Skok, get together. Pick a date, publicize it as much as possible and ALL SHOW UP and fish. Stay on the side of the river that (was) public access. Call WDFW enforcement just prior to walking down to the river and tell them what your doing. Contact the editors of all the local papers and tell them your all going fishing. Have family members there with cell phones to video the response and what happens.

THIS IS EXACTLY HOW THE TRIBES BROUGHT ABOUT THE BOLDT DECISION. NOT BY INTERNET WHINE OR PIE IN THE SKY WISHING, BUT BY PUBLIC ACTION.

Doing this will force the issue into the face of the Governor, because there’s nothing he hates more than bad press!

So, Krijacks, why don’t you take up the challenge and start organizing this right away. Hell, if you get this off the ground. I promise you, I’ll participate.

Count me out on the illegal fishing plan Baywolf. It looks like you would not participate either but want others to do it for you. Similar to those that preach shooting wolves and seals on sight but don’t have the guts to commit crimes themselves.
Now your other idea “Call the bluff of the tribes and lose a season or two”.
How are the tribes bluffing? It seems like they hold all the cards.

Actually Jake, the idea of fishing the Skok was floated by Ron Warren! He made the remarks when explaining the road block to WDFW entering into a lawsuit over the tribes claim to the river. According to Ron, having someone arrested for fishing the river would provide the nexus for a court action.

Before disparaging my character, you might want to ask exactly what I’ve done in the past. In addition, you can clearly read I gave my word I would participate, if it were organized and coordinated by someone. You see, I’ve been in the barrel and I know there are too many keyboard warriors like you to hope for any real change.

I must of missed where I should read where you said you would participate. If so, I apologize.

Illegal fishing that results from a very questionable, and possibly illegal seizure?

Why is it not the time for the Courts to put this dispute to an end? As we continue to rue the potential outcome, the onslaught carries on. Get off your knees, and at least advocate that WDFW follows the litigation course they previously committed to...then left all the vocal, but non-committal, Recs twisting in the wind.

Real easy for the AG's staff to find the flat calm, and set a course for job security and pension benefits in the long run.

Are you guys saying that no one has been busted for illegal fishing at the Skokomish since it has been closed?

It was the Tribes who very publicly fished in protest of the State's closures. Fishing was important enough for many of them to risk jail time. Heck, we won't even not buy licenses that support WDFW....

Exactly!! Like Bender said, “get off your knees”. Stop bitchin about how wrong this is and DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT. Hell, think about it. The most we could be charged with is probably treaspasing. And what, the Skokes are gonna put us in their jail? Highly doubt that, it would be WAY to problematic and draw to much media attention to them. That leaves WDFW and local law enforcement. WDFW arrest and jail us for protesting a claim that THEY are supposed to be fighting? Doubt it. So that leaves local law enforcement. Their response will be determined by the number of protesters and how much media coverage there is. If there is a spokesperson amoung the group, and we agree to leave peacefully after having our say, then that will most likely be the outcome. Bottom line is, it WILL FORCE THE ISSUE TO BE HEARD IN THE COURT OF PUBLIC OPINION, which is exactly where the Skoks and WDFW DONT WANT IT TO BE HEARD.

When was the last time Public opinion went against the tribes? Why would it now?

There's absolutely no way I could have said it any better...tip of the hat to you, Wolf!

https://www.kitsapsun.com/story/news/201...iver/363768002/

Krijack, Jake (and others)--take a look at this link, and put all the pieces together.

Public opinion is what it is, and voluntary forfeiture of rights is something entirely different. You can't bring about change--or right a wrong--by sitting on your @ss.

Previously, Rec sportsmen were fishing the Skok along w/the Tribe for decades and longer. We pay taxes and fees to our State to protect, preserve and maintain our rights and privileges--and Co-Management means cooperation, along with co-existent preservation of resources, opportunity and access.

Get some backing from advocate groups, schedule a "session" along the once public bank of the river--and stand up for what you value. Like the Wolf, I and hopefully many others ,will follow suit. Fish, or cut bait...

I hope this is something that gets organized and put to rest so that the river can rightfully be shared by all stakeholders. Count me in for any protest/fish-in. This has gone on long enough.

Way to step up Streamer! That’s two of us who’ve committed, now we only need about 28 more to make an impact.

Getting attention isn't too hard to do. Get friendly with a local reporter and make sure they show up. Our local paper was at every one of our events to get the Skagit opened up - because I invited them and made sure they knew what the purpose was. Progress was slow, but it did happen.

https://www.goskagit.com/news/fishermen-...b6bddc76d4.html

The Occupy Skagit events were...umm...unfishing. We fished without hooks. When asked, I replied, "If they are going to pretend to manage them, we'll pretend to fish for them."

The main difference I see here between what your situation is and one we had was that we had one of the tribes agreeing with us. I don't know if you'll be able to do that. But if you think there is a chance start at the bottom and not at the top with Loomis.

Figures below taken from WDFW published records for the years 2014-2018:

Final Yearly Totals For Surplus Chinook Beyond Escapement---George Adams Hatchery---Skokomish River---Hood Canal

The three seasons since non-Tribal recreational fishing was closed:

11/01/2018................24,429
11/02/2017................37,812
11/03/2016................25,136

The final two seasons prior to the closure when recreational fishing was allowed:

11/05/2015.................6,697
10/30/2014.................4,792

Take what you will from these stats.

Off the top, it appears that in the two seasons prior to the river's closure, rec bank fishermen may have landed and retained a considerable number of legal hatchery fish before they reached the holding pond.


More significantly, note how the number of "surplus" fish--those typically sent to food banks or used to produce organic fertilizer--spiked after the closure.
Finally, its obvious that both harvest opportunity and possible resource waste may now be the norm, rather than the exception.


Could the Tribe be encouraged to work together with WDFW through positive co-management to turn this around? That possibility rests entirely in the hands of WDFW Management. There's your trouble...

Ok every "one, here is the latest updated. I probably should have waited with the first post as there has been a little progress. Take what you will, but there has been one meeting this year with the Tribe over this and one more scheduled. Nothing has been agreed on, but it appears some progress is being made. We will probably not know anything for sure until after NOF, which is coming up fairly fast. Since no protest or "fish-in" would make sense till after that, I think any planning should wait until we here what happens there.

The biggest issue here should not be the Skokomish, but rather the behavior of the State and the Tribes. Last year the state went in insisting they would stand strong. They came out with their tail between their legs. Nothing was said and no explanation was given. We were left with the Tribes statement (Kitsap Sun, 2014) afterwards, "Skokomish Tribal Chairman Charles "Guy" Miller said Friday there was "brief" discussion of the Skokomish closure during the salmon meetings but the tribes did not offer to reopen recreational fishing on the river. Miller said no further negotiations have been arranged with the state. Skokomish representatives are open to discussing solutions with recreational fishing groups and Fish and Wildlife officials, he added."
Now I have been told that the "brief discussion" was basically the tribes holding the State hostage. This type of behavior should never be allowed to go unchecked. In the end, I am again a little hopeful that something will be worked out on the Skokomish, but with no access to the NOF or agreements made, it is very unclear what the true cost could be. As a group, renewed effort must be made to get access to the negotiations at NOF.

To wrap it up, waiting on the Skokomish for a few months may be the best approach, with a renewed effort to get NOF access starting now. The example of what supposedly took place last year should be great example of why access is needed..

At some point you have to ask yourself, "Is this something I can live with, or is this the line in the sand where I take a stand?"

It is clear that most men are willing to have others fight for them, and are comfortable looking into the mirror and see the coward that they are.

Fortunately, there are still a few that lead from the front...

Bay Wolf, a bit of advice.

I really appreciate your passion, and I appreciate that you have dedicated a lot of time and energy for the cause of recreational fishing.

That being said, your disdain for most anyone who's not you is glaring, and besides being inaccurate, is counterproductive.

You didn't invent activism, and believe it or not, before you started in on it on PP last year, many folks here have been doing it for a long time.

You'd do well to remember that.

Take that advice how you will...but your attitude is not going to engage other people well, in my experience.

Fish on...

Todd

Thanks Todd for that bit of advice. And for the appreciation of my passion.

Not sure what part of what I said you consider "inaccurate", but I guess it's all in the individual interpretation.

I'm not really concerned how others feel about my attitude. After all, I'm not in a popularity contest. I call things like I see them. Always have, always will. Others may see things different and that's good. Different perspectives are important. I've never singled out anyone for their unwillingness to get involved in "activism". I do take issue to those that talk the talk, but won't walk the walk. Again, always have, always will.

I apologize if there was something in my last post that hit a nerve. But, to my experience, there is truth in what I wrote.

Nothing will change until WDFW adopts a strategy at NOF that involves something other than caving to whatever they need to in order to get a deal. They flirted with saying no a few years ago, which I took as a good sign. They need to do it again and put massive pressure on the Feds to just grant two ESA permits if the tribes and State can't agree. There are a million and three (at least) federal nexus (WTF is plural of nexus?) that could be used to expedite the ESA permit process. It doesn't have to be tribal fisheries for any reason other than the Feds say it has to be tribal fisheries.

As it is, the Feds have set this up so the Tribes have no incentive to negotiate. If the Tribes take their ball and go home, the Feds tell the state to sit on the sideline and tell the Tribes to go fish. I wouldn't negotiate either.

Baywolf, maybe ease up on words like "coward". You may be amazed to find out that people don't always have the time to do what someone that's retired can do. I'm not retired and worked with PSA as and officer of the south sound chapter until there was just no time any longer because of changes at work.

You may call things like that as" calling things as you see them" but fact is you're not nearly as enlightened as you think you are.

Trust me, Baywolf, I have no nerves that you can either touch or get on, just trying to offer some friendly advice about alienating those who may otherwise be interested in helping out with your endeavors...you can use it, or not.

Good luck.

Fish on...

Todd

I tried to help him a couple years with his petition at the sportsman's show. He had asked to see if I could get a copy at the PSA booth. Had he made that statement before hand I expect I would not have been so inclined.

If you are interested in catching flies, honey works better than vinegar!

Members of the Skok tribe have made their position on what they want clear to me. I've asked them directly what it would take to reopen the Skok.

Do any of you know what that position is, and why?

Stop shitting all over because it's gross?

No.

Please tell.

TIA

From what I have heard, The Skok wish to implement a paid permitting system to limit access to the river, and to cover some expenses with operating a fishery there.

Pay to stand on poop and snag fish? I think not.

Pay more to catch our fish, FOH..

Interesting. That's something I would consider.

Would be curious what their expenses were for operating this fishery before it closed and what they'd expect them to be if it opened up again.
What services would they be providing, Honey Buckets, etc?
Anyone know?

Thanks,
SF

If this is the case, completely stop using taxpayers/sportsman's money to run the hatchery. Turn it over to the tribes and they can operate it.
Take that funding elsewhere where all can benefit form the hatchery fish.
Quinault River comes to mind here. You want to fish the lower river, you pay an Indian guide, but the rest of us are not paying for the Quinault's to raise their fish.

That being said, this is complete BS. If you want change, hit them where it hurts. Stop going to the Indian casino's . I for one do not!

You might want to re-focus.

Realize a goodly number of clipped-fin smolts leave the Adams hatchery, range on out to the ocean, and then head back at maturity. Upon return, they become fair game along the shores of the Strait and eastward, past Ediz Hook, the Dungeness Spit, and then Pt. Wilson before entering Hood Canal and their home waters.

The anglers along that route are already impacted with enough selective restrictions and curtailed opportunity as it is...and likely, more to come.

Check the WDFW fish counts out of Pt. Townsend late-July thru early August last season...solid numbers.

Um, there is a reason why the cook creek hatchery it is called the "Quinault National Fish Hatchery", and its not because the Tribe is paying for it. (hint, the web page is run by the US fish and Wildlife service). It does appear that the tribe funds the lake hatchery and Salmon Creek, but I would not be surprised if the BIA funds those.

While I could agree with the argument that sportsman's money (license fees, etc) shouldn't fund production of fish they can't catch, the general taxpayer had benefitted from the Treaties in having the land to live on and develop. It has been that development that has led to the diminishment of salmon through habitat degredation. So, if there are going to be hatcheries to provide fish for the Tribes and/or the NI commercials then it should be General Fund. Like old WDF was.

C-Man--selling or forfeiting Geo Adams Hatchery on the Skokomish has been advocated by some as the proper response to the Tribe's closing the river banks to Rec angling.

Suppose for some reason, the State handed over or sold the hatchery to the Tribe. Do you think the Skokomish Tribe would continue the present smolt joint fin-clipping operation with WDFW?

What would their incentive be to do so, as under the present selective rule framework...those returning Geo Adams adults would be illegal to retain by Recs?

Might be awhile before the State and our politicians alter the way they do business with the tribes. There's a bill before the legislature that would give Tribal Casinos exclusive rights to legalized sports wagering in this state. Another giveaway, with "what" in return?

Bill Would Allow Sports Betting at Washington Indian Casinos
February 11, 2019

House Bill 1975 seeks to authorize sports betting only inside the tribal casino of the state. This would include betting on both college and professional sports.

Bets could be placed with a casino teller or at a kiosk within the casino. Bets could also be placed by mobile phone but only inside an Indian casino.

If passed, each tribe would be required to renegotiate their gaming compacts with the state to add the terms for regulating and taxing the sports waging. This is required by Indian gaming laws of the federal government and may take a year or more before betting can begin.

Yep, Cook Ck nat'l fish hatchery is operated and paid for by US Fish & Wildlife Service through federal funding. The Lake Quinault Tribal hatchery is also paid for mainly, if not wholly, with federal funding. The George Adams hatchery is paid for by WDFW and Tacoma Power. I think it's insulting that WDFW spends state taxpayer money on that hatchery production without even putting up a fight for terminal area recreational fishing.

Salmo, +1

George Adams is/was at least partially funded by mitigation monies. the Tribes would [robably not mark the fish but (theoretically) 50% of the harvestable would go to the NI side.

Greased Democratic palms.

I completely agree in principle, but could it be that we've reached a point at which funding those hatcheries is the only way we can provide enough fish to keep the Tribes from suing the state (to virtual death) for the total collapse of their traditional salmon fisheries?

It is pretty clear that the State, under Boldt, has to ensure that the Tribe's have dead fish in the boat. Boldt II, the habitat aspect (and it spawned the culvert case) has the State scared spitless because they have to ensure fish to catch.

So, yes, the State needs to operate hatcheries to meet Tribal needs. But, the cost of those hatcheries is a State responsibility and not the responsibility of the recreational angler, or even the commercial netter. It is the State's responsibility because the State chose development over habitat protection.

The problem I see with Carcassman's argument is that the Cook Creek and Makah hatcheries put out extremely large number of Steelhead that are almost exclusively utilized by them alone. While salmon production can probably be justified, I do wonder about the large numbers of Steelhead they produce.

While a different topic, one thing else that bothers me is that these Federally financed hatcheries are dumping hatchery fish into quite a few small rivers in the area, like the Sekiu river and Moclips river, that have no hatcheries or ways to separate the fish. These rivers also have low levels of development on them. Yet we are being told that the state needs to stop putting hatchery fish on rivers that have more development, and have the means to collect most of the hatchery fish.

Not sure I understand the problem with producing those steelhead. The Tribes have rights to them, they have markets for them, and the Feds can look at the production as meeting a tribal need without a lot of "conflict". It is those Cook Creek fish, I believe, that are planted in the Hoh. Or we're.

Not sure if the Moclips steelhead are listed as it is coastal and not PS.

You could push WDFW to plant steelhead in WB, as they aren't listed.

I think it questionable for them to plant steelhead, with federal funds, for the exclusive use of the tribes. Very few of these fish are caught in the oceans or contribute to anyone but the tribe. At one time it could be justified by arguing the tribe needed the fish for economic reasons or to offset low run numbers that were a result of damage done to the watershed. In the case of the Quinault, most of the watershed is now in the reservation or in the national park. The tribe most certainly does not need the revenue to survive, and could easily pay for the raising themselves. In that case, and probably in the case of the Makah hatchery, the raising of steelhead in the numbers can not be justified by treaty obligations. It simply is a government handout to the tribe.

I don't blame the tribe from taking advantage of it. I would too. But I do wonder why it the federal government continues to fund it.

Sky guy,
I was thinking about your statement earilier

********"From what I have heard, The Skok wish to implement a paid permitting system to limit access to the river, and to cover some expenses with operating a fishery there.****

This could be a very dangerous proposition. It seems that the tribe, if they wished, could easily have implemented such an idea on their own without the State's approval. I doubt that the Makah's, Quinault or Collville tribes ask the state for permission on fees for fishing on their land. My guess is that the Tribe wants the State to agree to the terms and post it in the regulations or to codify such an agreement, thereby implying they agree with the Tribe's ownership of the land.

I guess not...

I’m not a Skokomish River fishermen, but I believe without this getting a lot of media attention, the Tribe and the State are both very comfortable in their positions, and as such, nothing will change for a very long time.

Remember Point no point?

Build a WALL.

For those of you who “believe” we are on the brink of a major breakthrough:

“As for accessing Skokomish River hatchery kings, which have been off limits for several seasons now over a boundary dispute, Puget Sound manager Mark Baltzell says that WDFW is still talking with the Skokomish Tribe about access and that getting anglers back on the water “is a goal of ours.”

This is code for: Nothing has changed...

Us sporties need some sponsors....like "Jack Daniels" to grease the skids

Any sweat lodge companies you guy's know ?

The primary obstacle in the Skokomish Matter is getting to the truth.

For the better part of four years, we the public have been played by WDFW word speak that begins with open communication, positive speculation and optimism--but then, ultimately--failure. Oddly, even though both sides profess to be open-minded and working in unison, we have yet to be made privy as to why no agreement can been reached.

Afterward, Skokomish Council Leader Guy Miller maintains the Tribe is willing to work toward agreement, while WDFW's Ron Warren professes that anglers returning to the riverbank "are a must, and remain a high priority..."

Rumors are embellished, insights go public, and various points of view are placed forward as to why Co-Managers can't agree in principle...and WDFW plays the same hand of remaining silent.

One such account of what has taken place sights an agreement in principle reached by both the Skokomish Tribe and WDFW, but a "deal breaker" objection to that accord by one (or maybe two) of the other twenty-plus Tribes scuttles the whole process.

Could that possibly be true? I want to discount that as a falsehood.

Yet, I go back to my first sentence. Until the deception, falsehoods, exaggerations, misinterpretations and the like are eliminated, this broken system of Co-Management will continue as a dysfunctional train wreck that only produces more of the same.

Go beyond live streaming select portions of the NOF Meetings and make them open to the public in their entirety. Only then can we eliminate disparity, along with this ongoing waste of time, money and resources.

Above all--return truth and honesty to the forefront.

We do know that the NOF process must be agreed to by all. The Muckleshoots scuttled it a few years ago. So, it is quite possible that some other tribe has a bur against WDFW and won't agree.

Transparency would go a long ways.

Bender nailed it perfect!
Secrecy is the way they avoid accountability and is the bedrock of many the issues inside WDFW. The Commission is culpable in allowing the director(s) a pass in its continuation. Hiding behind Tribal sovereignty and a hundred other excuses to prevent the real truths to come to light. Perhaps, someday we will get tired of being treated like mushrooms, kept in the dark and fed BS. Maybe, just maybe something will happen that will change the rules of the game.

Stop funding them. Money is the ONLY thing that they understand.

I agree and believe we should lobby the Legislature to cut off the General Fund appropriation to the Department to get its attention. At some point even the densest administration will notice where the money comes from and where it doesn't. Continuing to bite the hand that feeds it is a really bad business plan.

[quote=Great Bender]The primary obstacle in the Skokomish Matter is getting to the truth.

For the better part of four years, we the public have been played by WDFW word speak that begins with open communication, positive speculation and optimism--but then, ultimately--failure. Oddly, even though both sides profess to be open-minded and working in unison, we have yet to be made privy as to why no agreement can been reached.

Afterward, Skokomish Council Leader Guy Miller maintains the Tribe is willing to work toward agreement, while WDFW's Ron Warren professes that anglers returning to the riverbank "are a must, and remain a high priority..."

Rumors are embellished, insights go public, and various points of view are placed forward as to why Co-Managers can't agree in principle...and WDFW plays the same hand of remaining silent.

One such account of what has taken place sights an agreement in principle reached by both the Skokomish Tribe and WDFW, but a "deal breaker" objection to that accord by one (or maybe two) of the other twenty-plus Tribes scuttles the whole process.

Could that possibly be true? I want to discount that as a falsehood.

Yet, I go back to my first sentence. Until the deception, falsehoods, exaggerations, misinterpretations and the like are eliminated, this broken system of Co-Management will continue as a dysfunctional train wreck that only produces more of the same.

Go beyond live streaming select portions of the NOF Meetings and make them open to the public in their entirety. Only then can we eliminate disparity, along with this ongoing waste of time, money and resources.

Above all--return truth and honesty to the forefront.




[/quote

Has anyone been provided with some credible info re: the TBD status of Rec fishing on the Skokomish this season? For sure, this is a tiresome topic...but will we ever learn the true issues preventing a clear cut rare opportunity for a sustainable chinook harvest? Limitations/cutbacks throughout Puget Sound, years of surplus at the George Adams hatchery...and talks are allegedly continuing. What the hell is the TRUE story, WDFW?

I have to wonder how they can make a decision about take. While there usually is a ton of fish back to the hatchery, is this by design or because the numbers can not be taken? Are any fisheries constrained by impacts on wild fish. I know that the past fisheries required the release of wild fish, and I think that also may be why the season ends fairly early. If the state projects a fishery, they would have to plan on the recs taking a ton of fish in river. This should limit the salt water take some. But, if the fishery is cancelled late in the year, the state can only do an emergency commercial fishery or bypass the opportunity on those fish. Seems like it would really be in the Skok's favor to promise an opening then deny it later on.

Isn't it amazing that there is not one GD citizen who really knows what the F*(K is going on with an entire river!

A bit of distrust of Government is, in my experience, a healthy thing. But what we have going on right now with WDFW is absurd and the Commission is failing in its obligation which is truly unfortunate because I still believe it is a better structure than the former one with policies at the whim of politicians.

As for the Skok what the State received was an opinion from the BIA's legal team. It is not a court order nor other enforceable legal action to which the State could formally contest. So what to do? Frankly, there is no incentive for the tribe to agree - same as for the PNP ramp. Yes, that pesky multi-million dollar boat launch without a ramp. I hope I am not the only one seeing a pattern.

Krijack,

My information is not current, but I think Chinook management remains the same. The Skok Tribe would like to harvest more Chinook since the terminal run is so large. NMFS has required them to reduce their harvest rate from what it used to be in order to protect "wild" Skokomish Chinook. However, genetic information has improved to the point that we know that most of the wild Chinook in the Skok are the product of hatchery fish that strayed into the North Fork and spawned. Given that George Adams hatchery has been in operation for over 50 years, and a high harvest rate was applied to ALL of Hood Canal for Chinook, coho, and chum, it's not a stretch to guess that all the wild fish were extirpated long ago. That's not to say there isn't any wild genetic material remaining from endemic runs if their timing was earlier or later than the main hatchery runs, but there isn't much.

The Skok Tribe wants the best of both worlds. They have introduced spring Chinook from the Skagit. They are hatchery fish now, but they want to develop a wild run that goes up the NF and is passed upstream of the Cushman dams. They also want to develop a later timed fall Chinook run that mimics the run timing of the historical Skok fall Chinook, which were later than the George Adams Green River hatchery stock. They want those to also be wild Chinook eventually. If that works then they could go back to the wipe-out fishery for Geo Adams timed Chinook. Of course there would be mixed stock problems with that later timed fall Chinook because they would overlap with the coho and chum, which the Tribe wants to harvest at a high rate because most of them are hatchery fish.

My contention is that WDFW should disregard the Skok Tribe's claim of river ownership based on a court decision long ago (I have a copy of it here somewhere), and open the usual salmon fishing season that they used to. Then let the Tribe take WDFW to court and see if they get the old ruling over-turned. Acting like the Tribe already won demonstrates that WDFW doesn't give a hoot about non-treaty recreational salmon fishing in freshwater.

Sg

That approach has been suggested - maybe by you - and would put the burden on the tribes and/or BIA to take action. I like that approach especially when the State can show that it has made efforts to resolve the matter. Unfortunately that willingness to negotiate can be construed as admitting the State has no case and undermines its position meaning nothing happens.

One needs to remember that the Bureau of Indian Affairs is substantially run by Indians and whatever they may generate in terms of opinions benefiting tribal interests over those of non-tribal citizens needs to be viewed with skepticism.

There is always the option of an organized “Fish In”. I outlined that earlier in the string.

Now I’m sure that a local news crew would attend, and, heck, might even get a crew from one of the tv stations to show.

All it would take is about 12 guys, fishing poles, no hooks.
Coordinate with the local chapter of whatever clubs are active there,
Have a bull horn and designate a single spokesperson. Someone with a good command of English and is well educated on the issue.

Put the word out and get it done.

There is near zero chance that anyone who peacefully gathers will be arrested. Believe me, the Skokes nor the State want that kind of publicity.

I bet if someone coordinated this and posted it on this board there would be a hundred guys show up!

The Wolf is spot on w/this.

I want to reach out to the Kitsap Poggie Club, as it was over two years ago they hosted Mike Grossman and Ron Warren to address their assembled membership re: the return of NT Rec fishing to the Skokomish banks--and were told it was a "WDFW high priority."

A good number of Hood Canal tideland owners have cooperated w/the Tribe for years to share the oyster harvest on their respective properties--I am one of them. The backbone of the Boldt Decision is 50/50 sharing of the fisheries resource...and all of us involved operate within the spirit of, and adherence to that principle.

Kitsap Poggie Club members (as well as others)--rise to the call. We would be breaking no mores other than tribal restrictions, and fishing for State hatchery fish w/o baits or hooks...which amounts to a most harmless and peaceful demonstration of what we consider our rights.

If WDFW won't do whats necessary to bring this about--then its up to us.

So, what’s happening? Is ANYBODY gonna scream at the top of their lungs “I’M MAD AS HELL AND I AIN’T GONNA TAKE IT ANYMORE”?

Just getting re-wound. I have some things to say publicly to WDFW leadership. Really interested in the lawsuit brought by The Advocacy. It might be a profound decision - maybe not. Proud of those guys for taking on WDFW.