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#1007017 - 04/12/19 08:46 PM Re: Tribes walk out of North of Falcon [Re: fish4brains]
Bay wolf Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 10/26/12
Posts: 1075
Loc: Graham, WA
Originally Posted By: fish4brains
Walking out should be treated the same as foregone opportunity. A stupid loophole where you give up something that should be yours. Whatever business is left unfinished goes to the "co-manager" still sitting at the table.


PERFECT!!!

Now that is one of the best solutions I’ve heard in a long time!!
Give that man a cigar!
_________________________
"Forgiveness is between them and God. My job is to arrange the meeting."

1Sgt U.S. Army (Ret)

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#1007022 - 04/12/19 09:18 PM Re: Tribes walk out of North of Falcon [Re: Bay wolf]
Carcassman Online   content
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7412
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
Foregone opportunity is when you either choose not to fish (and have harvest left) or you fish 24/7 and can't catch them all. Walking out of the process would seem to be foregone opportunity.

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#1007034 - 04/13/19 10:28 AM Re: Tribes walk out of North of Falcon [Re: Bay wolf]
Bay wolf Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 10/26/12
Posts: 1075
Loc: Graham, WA
Unfortunately, as long as the Northwest Indian Fisheries Commission is calling the shots, the best we can hope for is that they allow us to fish at all.. Remember, the reason they walk out of these secret meetings is to pressure the Commission to it's knees. And with people like Kehoe and Baker on the Commission, as long as the NT Commercials are getting their slice, the hell with the sporties.

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#1007058 - 04/13/19 06:46 PM Re: Tribes walk out of North of Falcon [Re: Bay wolf]
Carcassman Online   content
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7412
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
As long as WA stays out of court with the Tribes, all is well.

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#1007069 - 04/14/19 09:00 AM Re: Tribes walk out of North of Falcon [Re: Carcassman]
Bay wolf Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 10/26/12
Posts: 1075
Loc: Graham, WA
Originally Posted By: Carcassman
As long as WA stays out of court with the Tribes, all is well.


Of course! Another leverage that all but eliminates any real balance.

The sportsmen of this state contributes millions of dollars through license purchases, permits and enhancements. Millions more to local economies such as tackle stores, boat dealers, and mom and pop gas stations. Much of it in area's without a great deal of other income.

Yet, the sportsmen is somehow being manipulated to the life of a mushroom. Kept in the dark and fed Bull$hit by the very people who are supposed to be our advocates, THE COMMISSION!

Instead of improving communications and being more transparent in the decision making process, they are doing the exact opposite!

WHY? Exactly because of leverage. The leverage that the NWIFC uses over the State, through the Commission to assert their demands over what is fair and balanced.

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#1007229 - 04/16/19 12:42 PM Re: Tribes walk out of North of Falcon [Re: Bay wolf]
Todd Offline
Dick Nipples

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 28170
Loc: Seattle, Washington USA
My understanding, for what it's worth, is that the tribes insisted on talking about chum first...specifically that they won't talk about anything until the State agrees to stop the commercial netting of chum in Puget Sound.

Considering non-tribal commercial netters have been allowed to wipe out very prolific chum runs in the Nooksack, Skagit, Stilly, Snohomish, Green, and Puyallup rivers, it's not an altogether bad position to take.

Fish on...

Todd
_________________________


Team Flying Super Ditch Pickle


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#1007231 - 04/16/19 12:54 PM Re: Tribes walk out of North of Falcon [Re: Bay wolf]
wsu Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 06/23/04
Posts: 422
Todd is correct. It’s also not a coincidence that chum is the only place the tribes don’t manage to catch more than 50%.


Edited by wsu (04/16/19 12:54 PM)

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#1007292 - 04/16/19 10:05 PM Re: Tribes walk out of North of Falcon [Re: Bay wolf]
Bay wolf Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 10/26/12
Posts: 1075
Loc: Graham, WA
From the way things are shaping up and from what we are hearing from people with first hand information, WDFW and the Commissioners fell all over themselves to give the Tribes everything they demanded to keep them at the table. What a bunch of BS Co-management is!!
_________________________
"Forgiveness is between them and God. My job is to arrange the meeting."

1Sgt U.S. Army (Ret)

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#1007432 - 04/18/19 08:04 AM Re: Tribes walk out of North of Falcon [Re: Bay wolf]
Chetwoot Offline
Eyed Egg

Registered: 08/22/07
Posts: 5
Loc: Squaxin
Originally Posted By: Bay wolf
Originally Posted By: Krijack
I received an email back today stating that the tribes have not walked out and that negotiations, though difficult, are still on going. We will see if that is true but for now I am assuming it is. If anyone else has information otherwise, please let us know.


Thanks for looking into this. I believe the information was, not that they walked out "permanently", rather that they walked when it seemed that they would not get what they wanted. Which is exactly what has happened in the last three NOF years.

Please let us know if you get any more details. Of course, it would be so much simpler if the damn meetings had just been live streamed! Then we all could see for ourselves.


The Tribes never "walked out" and have never "walked out" of a North of Falcon meetings in my 18 years participating in the process. The negotiation were difficult and yes chum management was a primary focus at the beginning. Just wanted to say something to clear up the "rumors" thrown up on these blogs.
_________________________
Joseph Peters
Squaxin Island Tribe Natural Resources
Natural Resources Policy Representative/Salmon Harvest Manager

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#1007442 - 04/18/19 09:24 AM Re: Tribes walk out of North of Falcon [Re: Chetwoot]
SpoonFed Offline
Three Time Spawner

Registered: 01/29/19
Posts: 1519
Any more information you would like to share?

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#1007444 - 04/18/19 09:30 AM Re: Tribes walk out of North of Falcon [Re: Bay wolf]
fishbadger Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 03/06/01
Posts: 1194
Loc: Gig Harbor, WA
Is stray Hood Canal fish limiting MA11 quota "a thing"?

fb
_________________________
"Laugh if you want to, it really is kinda funny, cuz the world is a car and you're the crash test dummy"
All Hail, The Devil Makes Three

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#1007446 - 04/18/19 09:50 AM Re: Tribes walk out of North of Falcon [Re: Bay wolf]
wsu Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 06/23/04
Posts: 422
"Walked out" may be the wrong term but the result was the same.

More appropriate may be to say that the tribes refused to discuss anything other than reducing the state's chum harvest until the state capitulated on the chum issue. And, if the state doesn't capitulate, the tribes can simply apply for their own ESA permit and leave the state sitting on the bank, so to speak, because the feds won't process the state's permit without using the tribal agreement as the federal nexus for expedited review. While the tribes may not have physically walked anywhere, they refused to negotiate anything other the reduction in chum catch. The only difference is they physically remained present.

Mr. Peters - Is that accurate? If not, can you tell us what happened?

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#1007447 - 04/18/19 09:56 AM Re: Tribes walk out of North of Falcon [Re: Bay wolf]
Krijack Offline
Three Time Spawner

Registered: 06/03/06
Posts: 1531
Loc: Tacoma
Without transparency, we will never know what really happens. Simply asking for A, B and C and then refusing to negotiate gets the Tribes the same thing as walking out, without anyone knowing what happens. It becomes a bigger problem when the state hides or lies about it. Take the Skokomish River last year. We were told that the Tribe and State were negotiating. The State insisted they would hold the line. Then when nothing happened they said they were still negotiating. The Skokomish Tribe publicly stated that it was not an issue at NOF and was barely discussed. Then, this year, I was told by someone that the Skokomish river access was a sticking point and that if the State pushed for it the Tribes would not negotiate. It was not even allowed to be brought up or no negotiations would take place. The fact is, this is only one situation. If the tribes can do it there, where else are they taking this position? Simply put, if one side points a gun and says your life or your money, that is not a true negotiation. Refusing to go to the police, not putting in methods to defend yourself, or not telling anyone only ensures that it will continue to happen.


Edited by Krijack (04/18/19 09:57 AM)

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#1007451 - 04/18/19 10:41 AM Re: Tribes walk out of North of Falcon [Re: Bay wolf]
Great Bender Offline
Juvenile at Sea

Registered: 01/03/17
Posts: 155
Loc: Hood Canal
Well put, Krijack.

From your text, do you have info that the Skokomish River will once again be closed to Rec fishing this season? Last I saw, that issue was "to be determined" by continued talks to be conducted after NOF came to a close.

There are multiple examples that substantiate beyond any doubt that "Co-Management" is cooperative in name only...but the Skok controversy--in which both sides proclaim an agreement is their primary objective--begs for some public oversight.

It's ridiculous that I should even be asking you this question. As you have made clear, transparency is the only viable solution.

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#1007454 - 04/18/19 11:23 AM Re: Tribes walk out of North of Falcon [Re: Bay wolf]
Krijack Offline
Three Time Spawner

Registered: 06/03/06
Posts: 1531
Loc: Tacoma
I have not heard anything about what the odds are yet. I do have an email out and will continue asking, but I am not sure if I will get any replies that will have substance. Even if someone from the Department believes an agreement will be made, it does not mean the management will follow through or agree to any terms.

I believe the phrases used about continued negotiations are what has been stated for the past few years, making me believe that nothing will happen. As long as the tribe leaves the door cracked, the state can kick the can down the road until it is too late for anyone to push back. When the season rolls around, they will just state that they could not reach an agreement in time and that they are confident they can next year, or as they stated last year, will not allow NOF to proceed without an agreement. Then, as past years have shown, nothing happens.

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#1007478 - 04/18/19 12:58 PM Re: Tribes walk out of North of Falcon [Re: Bay wolf]
Bay wolf Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 10/26/12
Posts: 1075
Loc: Graham, WA
Krijack, WSU. THANK YOU BOTH. You both have a firm grasp on the importance of ending the secrecy that IS Co-management,
and the tribes complete control over the process.

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#1007684 - 04/20/19 09:16 AM Re: Tribes walk out of North of Falcon [Re: Chetwoot]
fish4brains Offline
Dah Rivah Stinkah Pink Mastah

Registered: 08/23/06
Posts: 6866
Loc: zipper
Originally Posted By: Chetwoot


The Tribes never "walked out" and have never "walked out" of a North of Falcon meetings in my 18 years participating in the process. The negotiation were difficult and yes chum management was a primary focus at the beginning. Just wanted to say something to clear up the "rumors" thrown up on these blogs.


So would you say they are open, transparent, and proactive as "co-managers?" Feel free to chime back so in now that you are defending their behavior.
_________________________
...
Propping up an obsolete fishing industry at the expense of sound fisheries management is irresponsible. -Sg



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#1008341 - 05/06/19 09:02 AM Re: Tribes walk out of North of Falcon [Re: Bay wolf]
Bay wolf Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 10/26/12
Posts: 1075
Loc: Graham, WA
THE REAL DEAL ON HOW MUCH YOUR INPUT IS WORTH IN SETTING SEASONS!

Have to find the Secret Meetig Place in California to Add Your Input

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