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#1007196 - 04/16/19 09:32 AM Salmon Managers are NOT Looking out for Rec’s
Bay wolf Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 10/26/12
Posts: 1075
Loc: Graham, WA
Apparently, there are cracks in the wall of secrecy surrounding North of Falcon. Check out this article.

Salmon Chronicle: Salmon managers not standing up for recreational fishermen

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#1007197 - 04/16/19 09:45 AM Re: Salmon Managers are NOT Looking out for Rec’s [Re: Bay wolf]
SpoonFed Offline
Three Time Spawner

Registered: 01/29/19
Posts: 1519
Surprising?.....Nope.
What about that tribal director that got caught up in that poaching investigation.
Now that's surprising.
So we just keep funding the state and none of them can go to bat for us. Hmmm.

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#1007430 - 04/18/19 06:57 AM Re: Salmon Managers are NOT Looking out for Rec’s [Re: Bay wolf]
Carcassman Online   content
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7413
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
As a former manager of salmonids, my purpose (perhaps that's why I wasn't a manager long) was to the resource. Management was successful only if the escapement goal was achieved. Period.

Next in line was achievement of International allocations, whether US/Canada or Tribes/NI. After that, it was the user groups within NI, which was the only management authority we had.

So, in my mind, if the stocks are sustainable and at or above goal we then argue over how the harvest is shared. Below that level, it should be the fish.

Not saying that is today's mindset, but that is how I was taught and expected to act.

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#1007433 - 04/18/19 08:15 AM Re: Salmon Managers are NOT Looking out for Rec’s [Re: Bay wolf]
Bay wolf Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 10/26/12
Posts: 1075
Loc: Graham, WA
Look, I advocated for Larry Carpenter’s re-appointment to the Commission after long conversations with him while working on our Open North of Falcon movement. We were very encouraged by his verbal commitment to full and complete transparency and his outrage over the culture of secrecy within WDFW. But, as we can see, once appointed and given the Chairmen-ship, all of a sudden he is fully involved in the perpetration of even greater skullduggery.

Unfortunately for us, as long as the Commissioners continue to do the bidding of the Northwest Indian Fisheries Commission, they will enjoy the protection of the Tribes both politically and financially.

We all know where the loyalties of our esteemed Governor and many of our politicians lay. Campaign donations are not that hard to trace.

So that only leaves public activism and legal action as a method to stop this continued flawed Co-management process that is fraught with secrecy.
_________________________
"Forgiveness is between them and God. My job is to arrange the meeting."

1Sgt U.S. Army (Ret)

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#1007483 - 04/18/19 01:37 PM Re: Salmon Managers are NOT Looking out for Rec’s [Re: Bay wolf]
fishbadger Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 03/06/01
Posts: 1194
Loc: Gig Harbor, WA
I dunno, all this talk about transparency. . .

I can see how it could greatly hamper and inflame progress by having the proceedings completely open to the public and transparent. I actually don't trust that the rec sector could behave itself in such an environment, and we would probably shoot ourselves in the feet by being reactionary to some of the political and negotiation tactics used. Further, I highly doubt that Joe rec fisher, sitting in on NOF with a microphone available, has any semblance of a complete understanding of the rules, reg's, history and dynamics at stake. I know I don't, and I actually have a bit of an interest in it. So I'm not sure complete transparency is a great goal.

I'm fine foregoing transparency, as long as I have faith that those who are negotiating on my behalf are representing my interests, and the interests of the fish, and that they're being honest with me. This is where it's all in the tank here for me. I'm getting the sense that the Department is not representing my interests or the fish's interests (0 fer 2?). And further, they may be misleading us. I hope I'm wrong on those assertions, but evidence seems to come up which doesn't look good. Better representation is a better goal in my opinion, than transparency. I'm grateful for all the efforts put forth by Beowulf and friends in this, I really am, and I think your heart's in the right place, doing it for the right reasons. It's just my .02,

I don't need to see how the hotdogs are made. As long as I know they won't kill me,

fb
_________________________
"Laugh if you want to, it really is kinda funny, cuz the world is a car and you're the crash test dummy"
All Hail, The Devil Makes Three

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#1007497 - 04/18/19 02:23 PM Re: Salmon Managers are NOT Looking out for Rec’s [Re: Bay wolf]
Bay wolf Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 10/26/12
Posts: 1075
Loc: Graham, WA
Thanks fb, I agree that a room full of Rec fishermen would probably be difficult. That’s why we have advocated for a live video feed, without delay or edits as a means of transparency. If they are truly negotiating in good faith and WDFW is advocated for us, why are they not willing to broadcast it for us all to see?

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#1007498 - 04/18/19 02:35 PM Re: Salmon Managers are NOT Looking out for Rec’s [Re: Bay wolf]
Krijack Offline
Three Time Spawner

Registered: 06/03/06
Posts: 1531
Loc: Tacoma


What do you do when the hot dogs are making you sick and you realize they eventually probably will kill you? If you actually trust the State to be negotiating in a way that best represents your interests, then I think you are naïve.


I agree that having the average sportsman speaking at the negotiation table could be bad. I am sure that the Tribes don't want many of their people there either. Providing access to the room, most likely through closed circuit camera, should be allowed, and is, in my opinion, required by law.

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#1007499 - 04/18/19 02:39 PM Re: Salmon Managers are NOT Looking out for Rec’s [Re: Bay wolf]
fishbadger Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 03/06/01
Posts: 1194
Loc: Gig Harbor, WA
I see where you're coming from PM.

And krijack, I'm starting to get sick from the hotdogs. We might need a different recipe!

fb
_________________________
"Laugh if you want to, it really is kinda funny, cuz the world is a car and you're the crash test dummy"
All Hail, The Devil Makes Three

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#1007504 - 04/18/19 03:52 PM Re: Salmon Managers are NOT Looking out for Rec’s [Re: Bay wolf]
Carcassman Online   content
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7413
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
One of the things which I think WDFW should do is hold an open meeting with recs. At that meeting they would start with what has been agreed-to at NOF and then permitted by the Feds. Next, folks would say "I prefer A", which would be modeled, inlacing where the NI fisheries would need to be changed to accommodate that fishery.

I don't think that there is enough clarity and understanding of what has to be given up here to get a fishery there.

This would also include clear reasoning why the sharing is not 50:50; wherever there are consistent deviations.

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