Check

 

Defiance Boats!

LURECHARGE!

THE PP OUTDOOR FORUMS

Kast Gear!

Power Pro Shimano Reels G Loomis Rods

  Willie boats! Puffballs!

 

Three Rivers Marine

 

 
Page 4 of 5 < 1 2 3 4 5 >
Topic Options
Rate This Topic
#1011578 - 07/11/19 11:21 AM Re: WDFW LAWSUIT: RULES COORD. SCOTT BIRD SUBPOENAED [Re: Tug 3]
Rivrguy Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 3246
Loc: Somewhere on the planet,I hope

Hillbilly 2 to hillbilly 1 .......... yeup you got it !
_________________________
Dazed and confused.............the fog is closing in

Top
#1011582 - 07/11/19 01:29 PM Re: WDFW LAWSUIT: RULES COORD. SCOTT BIRD SUBPOENAED [Re: Bay wolf]
stam Offline
Model Citizen, Zero Discipline!

Registered: 11/03/04
Posts: 12319
Loc: wherever I want to be...
Let the shell game continue.....
_________________________
Go hard, or..... go home

http://community.webshots.com/user/stamtma?vhost=community

soremouth the works...

Top
#1011925 - 07/18/19 10:37 PM Re: WDFW LAWSUIT: RULES COORD. SCOTT BIRD SUBPOENAED [Re: Bay wolf]
Chinook 1 Offline
Alevin

Registered: 03/14/18
Posts: 15
It's a court case everybody plays hard ball and no one show their hand. And you'd think the sky was falling because someone got subpoenaed. Remember sports were once in the NOF meeting with the tribes. And if it hadn't been for a couple of bad apples shooting there mouth off about the tribes. We'd still be in those meeting today.So sportsmen better hope thing go well in these court cases.Because if they don't it might be years before we fish the Puget Sound again.

Top
#1011926 - 07/19/19 04:56 AM Re: WDFW LAWSUIT: RULES COORD. SCOTT BIRD SUBPOENAED [Re: Chinook 1]
DrifterWA Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 04/25/00
Posts: 4543
Loc: East of Aberdeen, West of Mont...
Originally Posted By: Chinook 1
And if it hadn't been for a couple of bad apples shooting there mouth off about the tribes. We'd still be in those meeting today.So sportsmen better hope thing go well in these court cases.Because if they don't it might be years before we fish the Puget Sound again.


Just so you know "it wasn't sports shooting their mouths off, it was NT fishermen".....
_________________________
"Worse day sport fishing, still better than the best day working"

"I thought growing older would take longer"

Top
#1011927 - 07/19/19 05:10 AM Re: WDFW LAWSUIT: RULES COORD. SCOTT BIRD SUBPOENAED [Re: DrifterWA]
Rivrguy Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 3246
Loc: Somewhere on the planet,I hope
A GH Gillnetter to exact.

This one is a bit different as it is not one person it is any staff will be put under oath and perjury will get them nailed. To have staff deposed is always the greatest fear of any agency.


Edited by Rivrguy (07/19/19 05:15 AM)
_________________________
Dazed and confused.............the fog is closing in

Top
#1011930 - 07/19/19 09:01 AM Re: WDFW LAWSUIT: RULES COORD. SCOTT BIRD SUBPOENAED [Re: Chinook 1]
Larry B Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 2697
Loc: University Place and Whidbey I...
Originally Posted By: Chinook 1
So sportsmen better hope thing go well in these court cases.Because if they don't it might be years before we fish the Puget Sound again.


That is a quantum leap in logic. Exactly how would losing in court on this issue negate the Boldt decision and for practical purposes how would it change the current relationship between the State and the treaty tribes at NOF?
_________________________
Remember to immediately record your catch or you may become the catch!

It's the person who has done nothing who is sure nothing can be done. (Ewing)

Top
#1011931 - 07/19/19 09:13 AM Re: WDFW LAWSUIT: RULES COORD. SCOTT BIRD SUBPOENAED [Re: Chinook 1]
Bay wolf Offline
Spawner

Registered: 10/26/12
Posts: 915
Loc: Graham, WA
Originally Posted By: Chinook 1
Remember sports were once in the NOF meeting with the tribes. And if it hadn't been for a couple of bad apples shooting there mouth off about the tribes. We'd still be in those meeting today.So sportsmen better hope thing go well in these court cases.Because if they don't it might be years before we fish the Puget Sound again.


Allowing "observers" on the condition that they cannot comment, interject or make ANY statements on the negotiations seems pretty ridicules, don't you agree? Why not just have a couple of empty chairs in the room and call that "fully transparent management"?

It's interesting to note that Commissioner Carpenter has stated that even tho the Commission is ultimately responsible for the negotiations, the tribal members don't even want them in the meetings!

I suppose your threat that we better fall in line, or else is the reason there are some out there that think some fishing is better than no fishing. Well, wake up and smell the coffee boys. Your fishing IS being taken away, a piece at a time.

Some tribal fishermen are actually negatively influencing the fisheries by their hard headed stance that they alone control the fisheries and are damaging the trust and cooperation that is needed to truly work together to fix the problems facing our salmon and Orca's.

Yes, there are bad apples on all sides of this issue. But to ignore the hand that is extended in cooperation out of spite and a feeling of superiority just breeds more contempt, distrust and anger.

I hope that sooner rather than later, the tribal elders will put their foot down and say "enough is enough" We need to stop this stupid Us vs Them mentality. It's childish and damaging. The tribes won the right to fish, I certainly know that the majority of NT fishermen realize that, and support the law. By refusing to open ALL aspects of fish management to the public, tribal leaders are as responsible for the decline of salmon as anyone. There silence is seriously counter productive.

Top
#1011932 - 07/19/19 09:14 AM Re: WDFW LAWSUIT: RULES COORD. SCOTT BIRD SUBPOENAED [Re: Bay wolf]
Chinook 1 Offline
Alevin

Registered: 03/14/18
Posts: 15
My point here is do sportsmen risk the chance of not fish for years in Puget Sound. Just because someone doesn't like how thing are going in these NOF meeting. In the end stirring the Sh!!! pot might not be the best thing for sportsmen.Because in the end someone might have to lick the spoon. PS NT gill netters buy hunting & fishing licenses to so there sportsmen too.


Edited by Chinook 1 (07/19/19 09:27 AM)

Top
#1011933 - 07/19/19 09:25 AM Re: WDFW LAWSUIT: RULES COORD. SCOTT BIRD SUBPOENAED [Re: Chinook 1]
Larry B Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 2697
Loc: University Place and Whidbey I...
Originally Posted By: Chinook 1
My point here is do sportsmen risk the chance of not fish for years. Just because someone doesn't like how thing are going in these NOF meeting. In the end stirring the Sh!!! pot might not be the best thing for sportsmen.Because in the end someone might have to lick the spoon. PS NT gill netters buy hunting & fishing licenses to so there sportsmen too.


Okay, now you've led us to conclude that you are apparently speaking for NT commercials. Nice to have that little factoid out in the open - that is, transparency.

But more importantly you still haven't responded to my question of how a plantiff's loss in court would change the current dynamics and lead to the State having to further "lick the spoon." Oh, and in case you haven't noticed that spoon is already pretty clean having been licked for years now.
_________________________
Remember to immediately record your catch or you may become the catch!

It's the person who has done nothing who is sure nothing can be done. (Ewing)

Top
#1011934 - 07/19/19 09:30 AM Re: WDFW LAWSUIT: RULES COORD. SCOTT BIRD SUBPOENAED [Re: Chinook 1]
Bay wolf Offline
Spawner

Registered: 10/26/12
Posts: 915
Loc: Graham, WA
Originally Posted By: Chinook 1
My point here is do sportsmen risk the chance of not fish for years. Just because someone doesn't like how thing are going in these NOF meeting. In the end stirring the Sh!!! pot might not be the best thing for sportsmen.Because in the end someone might have to lick the spoon.


We're already licking the SH!! spoon.. it's being held by a few members of each tribe (NWIFC), freshly coated with each NOF fiasco.

I for one am tired of its taste...

Top
#1011935 - 07/19/19 09:45 AM Re: WDFW LAWSUIT: RULES COORD. SCOTT BIRD SUBPOENAED [Re: Bay wolf]
Rivrguy Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 3246
Loc: Somewhere on the planet,I hope
Quote:
My point here is do sportsmen risk the chance of not fish for years in Puget Sound


Well now that is 100% right and 100% wrong. Mixed stock fisheries are going to fall to the Orca's issue so terminal, both tribal and NT will benefit. Commercials in mixed stock areas are the least selective but WDF&W will do about anything to keep "their " commercial fishers and not just let the tribes do commercial. In the end commercial mixed stock will be toast and Recs will face many more restrictions outside terminal areas.

To say that all fishers, both tribal and non tribal, should not have full access to information on how and why decisions are made is complete BS. We have this mess because the information is withheld which breeds mistrust and anger with no solution. The bad guy here is the process not the public.


Edited by Rivrguy (07/19/19 09:46 AM)
_________________________
Dazed and confused.............the fog is closing in

Top
#1011936 - 07/19/19 09:53 AM Re: WDFW LAWSUIT: RULES COORD. SCOTT BIRD SUBPOENAED [Re: Rivrguy]
Bay wolf Offline
Spawner

Registered: 10/26/12
Posts: 915
Loc: Graham, WA
Originally Posted By: Rivrguy
Quote:
My point here is do sportsmen risk the chance of not fish for years in Puget Sound


To say that all fishers, both tribal and non tribal, should not have full access to information on how and why decisions are made is complete BS. We have this mess because the information is withheld which breeds mistrust and anger with no solution. The bad guy here is the process not the public.


100% Agree!
We MUST fix the process, and in doing so, we must overcome those that are obstructionists.

Top
#1011937 - 07/19/19 09:56 AM Re: WDFW LAWSUIT: RULES COORD. SCOTT BIRD SUBPOENAED [Re: Bay wolf]
Chinook 1 Offline
Alevin

Registered: 03/14/18
Posts: 15
Larry B: If i remember correctly this case is about the public open meeting act and public records.If you were to win the case it might open the door for sportsmen to participate again in these meeting. If that were to happen the tribes could just not show up.Leaving the state holding the bag and having to file for their own permits with NOAA. And that process could take years. Larry you just assume i was speaking for NT commercial.When all i was doing was pointing out that their sportsmen too.

Top
#1011940 - 07/19/19 10:56 AM Re: WDFW LAWSUIT: RULES COORD. SCOTT BIRD SUBPOENAED [Re: Bay wolf]
Carcassman Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 5466
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
The State could sue the Feds under equal protection clause in the Constitution. There is no reason why NOAA can't provide review in the same timeframe other than they don't want to.

Top
#1011944 - 07/19/19 12:04 PM Re: WDFW LAWSUIT: RULES COORD. SCOTT BIRD SUBPOENAED [Re: Carcassman]
Bay wolf Offline
Spawner

Registered: 10/26/12
Posts: 915
Loc: Graham, WA
Originally Posted By: Carcassman
The State could sue the Feds under equal protection clause in the Constitution. There is no reason why NOAA can't provide review in the same timeframe other than they don't want to.


Or...
Maybe we need to sue the BIA to force them to justify why they need to put a check mark on the Tribes permit applications before sending it on to NOAA.. Remember, it's that extra federal agency step that forces NOAA to fast track the tribal permits. Without the BIA step, we are all on the same level playing field as far as waiting on NOAA.

Top
#1011958 - 07/19/19 02:18 PM Re: WDFW LAWSUIT: RULES COORD. SCOTT BIRD SUBPOENAED [Re: Bay wolf]
Carcassman Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 5466
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
NOAA is the one that is short-changing the NI side.

Problem is, one has to sue. One has to spend the money. WA has decided not to take the tribes to court, so I doubt they will.

While we are on the subject, has anybody ever asked is WDFW has made a push for a fishery, the Tribes oppose it, and WDFW wins. Or is it always lose-lose? Can WDFW tell us what the current style has gotten the NI side that the Tribes did not want to give?

Top
#1011972 - 07/19/19 05:46 PM Re: WDFW LAWSUIT: RULES COORD. SCOTT BIRD SUBPOENAED [Re: Bay wolf]
Bobber Downey Jr. Offline
Fry

Registered: 04/01/15
Posts: 39
Loc: Bellingham, wa
I have a racial handicap that blocks my opportunities from fishing in common with others.

Top
#1012025 - 07/22/19 01:34 PM Re: WDFW LAWSUIT: RULES COORD. SCOTT BIRD SUBPOENAED [Re: Chinook 1]
Larry B Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 2697
Loc: University Place and Whidbey I...
Originally Posted By: Chinook 1
My point here is do sportsmen risk the chance of not fish for years in Puget Sound. Just because someone doesn't like how thing are going in these NOF meeting. In the end stirring the Sh!!! pot might not be the best thing for sportsmen.Because in the end someone might have to lick the spoon. PS NT gill netters buy hunting & fishing licenses to so there sportsmen too.


Repeating the same drivel over and over is not even close to being the same as justifying one's assertions. So, again, please explain exactly how a possible loss in court would alter the Boldt decision or change the current relationship between WDFW and the treaty tribes at NOF?
_________________________
Remember to immediately record your catch or you may become the catch!

It's the person who has done nothing who is sure nothing can be done. (Ewing)

Top
#1012028 - 07/22/19 02:15 PM Re: WDFW LAWSUIT: RULES COORD. SCOTT BIRD SUBPOENAED [Re: Bay wolf]
Carcassman Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 5466
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
If the state loses, then they are faced with a law saying open meetings and Tribes saying closed. This is just the first step. Does state law apply to WDFW?

If the tribes refuse open meetings, so that the state can comply, then one will have to go to Federal Court to establish a process. Or, they each set their own seasons independently and make NOAA act.

There is more to the suit than just open meetings. There is the whole process of how the regs are developed and adopted and the whole public disclosure piece.

Top
#1012040 - 07/22/19 07:16 PM Re: WDFW LAWSUIT: RULES COORD. SCOTT BIRD SUBPOENAED [Re: Bay wolf]
Chinook 1 Offline
Alevin

Registered: 03/14/18
Posts: 15
Larry B. I don't think i said anything about changing the Boldt decision. I was merely saying that a win by the Hamilton Brothers. Could hamper the open meeting policy. Resulting in the tribes unwillingness to participate in the NOF meeting.

Top
Page 4 of 5 < 1 2 3 4 5 >

Search

Site Links
Home
Our Washington Fishing
Our Alaska Fishing
Reports
Rates
Contact Us
About Us
Recipes
Photos / Videos
Visit us on Facebook
Today's Birthdays
Hammer7
Recent Gallery Pix
Gibbs Delta Time Capsule
Driftin'
Who's Online
6 registered (wolverine, stonefish, Excitable Bob, Myassisdragon, Dan S., 1 invisible), 274 Guests and 1 Spider online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
Benjamin Hayashi, Clearwater Alaska, fishon65, thundrrr, Thumbburner
11432 Registered Users
Top Posters
Hankster 31601
Todd 25021
Sol Duc 15545
Dan S. 15112
elparquito 13528
Salmo g. 12527
eyeFISH 12422
stam 12319
STRIKE ZONE 12107
Dogfish 10978
Forum Stats
11432 Members
18 Forums
76830 Topics
894337 Posts

Max Online: 596 @ 05/24/12 03:35 PM

Join the PP forums.

It's quick, easy, and always free!

Working for the fish and our future fishing opportunities:

The Wild Steelhead Coalition

The Photo & Video Gallery. Nearly 1200 images from our fishing trips! Tips, techniques, live weight calculator & more in the Fishing Resource Center. The time is now to get prime dates for 2018 Olympic Peninsula Winter Steelhead , don't miss out!.

| HOME | ALASKA FISHING | WASHINGTON FISHING | RIVER REPORTS | FORUMS | FISHING RESOURCE CENTER | CHARTER RATES | CONTACT US | WHAT ABOUT BOB? | PHOTO & VIDEO GALLERY | LEARN ABOUT THE FISH | RECIPES | SITE HELP & FAQ |