Check

 

Defiance Boats!

LURECHARGE!

THE PP OUTDOOR FORUMS

Kast Gear!

Power Pro Shimano Reels G Loomis Rods

  Willie boats! Puffballs!

 

Three Rivers Marine

 

 
Page 3 of 3 < 1 2 3
Topic Options
Rate This Topic
#1015223 - 10/10/19 08:58 AM Re: Cowlitz issues [Re: Carcassman]
WDFW X 1 = 0 Offline
My Area code makes me cooler than you

Registered: 01/27/15
Posts: 4549
The true ESA species is the Native American Indian.

Perhaps all of us plants should vacate this piece of land.

ESA.....................What a chit show.

Top
#1015228 - 10/10/19 09:10 AM Re: Cowlitz issues [Re: Carcassman]
Salmo g. Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 13521
It's almost flattering that Chinook1 thinks I have, or had, so much influence on proceedings that legally involved multiple agencies. I was involved in developing the Cowlitz settlement agreement in 2000, but was out of the picture by the time FERC approved TP's new license in 2002. The decision to terminate use of Chambers Creek origin steelhead in the Cowlitz hatchery program was made a number of years later.

For the record, had I still been involved, I would not have supported the decision to quit using early timed hatchery winter steelhead. The reason is simple. The Cowlitz provides a unique mechanism for separating hatchery and natural production fish at the fish barrier dam. No early timed hatchery steelhead would ever make it to the upper basin unless managers decided to place them there. Further, the concern that the early timed Chambers Creek fish would stray into lower Cowlitz River tributaries and cause genetic introgression with native wild steelhead was unwarranted. The Cowlitz steelhead genetics study showed that introgression in those tributaries was very low, considering that well over one million Chambers Creek steelhead fry had been deliberately stocked in those streams in years gone by. Apparently those who make the decisions thought it better to suspend use of Chambers Creek fish and reduce the risk to zero.

A number of changes have been made to the Cowlitz hatchery program that was initially described by the license settlement agreement. The main reason for those changes was to better comply with ESA interests in recovering natural origin populations of ESA-listed species.

Top
#1015327 - 10/10/19 01:36 PM Re: Cowlitz issues [Re: ]
Chinook 1 Offline
Fry

Registered: 03/14/18
Posts: 37
Originally Posted By: bobrr
]
Quote:

Love it honey when you call me a troll. And if you had a nag in the race it be dead last or the the glue factory.
You prove yourself that you are indeed a troll. What fishing reports have you ever posted on this site? Numerous things you say have been proven to be total B.S. You never address that. All your posts attack other members. A-holes like you should stay on the "dark side". You are the classic definition of a troll and are proud of it. Troll away, you get NO respect from anyone here. Bob R

I don't need your respect or want it. It's D bags like you that will never get it.

Top
#1015357 - 10/10/19 03:25 PM Re: Cowlitz issues [Re: WDFW X 1 = 0]
Larry B Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 3020
Loc: University Place and Whidbey I...
Originally Posted By: WDFW X 1 = 0
The true ESA species is the Native American Indian.

Perhaps all of us plants should vacate this piece of land.

ESA.....................What a chit show.


I get your point but the reality is that there is no such thing as a NATIVE AMERICAN insofar as humans did not come out of the ooze in the western hemisphere. We are all immigrants or the progeny of immigrants.

But, hey, I'd be willing to go back to Norway if all of those other humanoids in the Western Hemisphere to include those claiming to be NATIVE AMERICAN would go back to the lands from which their ancestors emigrated.

But that surely won't happen........
_________________________
Remember to immediately record your catch or you may become the catch!

It's the person who has done nothing who is sure nothing can be done. (Ewing)

Top
#1015358 - 10/10/19 03:33 PM Re: Cowlitz issues [Re: Chinook 1]
Larry B Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 3020
Loc: University Place and Whidbey I...
Originally Posted By: Chinook 1
Originally Posted By: bobrr
]
Quote:

Love it honey when you call me a troll. And if you had a nag in the race it be dead last or the the glue factory.
You prove yourself that you are indeed a troll. What fishing reports have you ever posted on this site? Numerous things you say have been proven to be total B.S. You never address that. All your posts attack other members. A-holes like you should stay on the "dark side". You are the classic definition of a troll and are proud of it. Troll away, you get NO respect from anyone here. Bob R

I don't need your respect or want it. It's D bags like you that will never get it.


Chinookie, the more you blather the more you convince others that you are less than irrelevant which indicates some sort of disorder. Untreatable Trollism (and that is demeaning to most traditional trolls)??
_________________________
Remember to immediately record your catch or you may become the catch!

It's the person who has done nothing who is sure nothing can be done. (Ewing)

Top
#1015380 - 10/10/19 09:34 PM Re: Cowlitz issues [Re: Carcassman]
Streamer Offline
No Stars for You!

Registered: 11/08/06
Posts: 2271
Loc: T-Town
Chinook 1 is pretty misinformed on most things and appears to have a skewed perception of past events. He is also a troll and a pretty basic one at that. Nothing special or worth even talking about really. Other similar trolls seem to come around every few months then are gone. The only trolls worth talking about are Big Stick, Nordic1/Swede, and Fish Prince.
_________________________
Space Available! Say something idiotic today!

Top
#1015411 - 10/11/19 08:58 AM Re: Cowlitz issues [Re: Carcassman]
WDFW X 1 = 0 Offline
My Area code makes me cooler than you

Registered: 01/27/15
Posts: 4549
Salmo can you refresh my memory on why they quit allowing summer stealhead to be planted from the Toledo ponds??

That was a huge blow as well.

Top
#1015508 - 10/11/19 07:58 PM Re: Cowlitz issues [Re: Carcassman]
Salmo g. Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 13521
WDFW X 1 = 0,

I was never informed about why that decision was made. My guess is that WDFW didn't consider it necessary when they increased total summer run production at Blue Creek. Same total pounds of production, just in one place, and sort of hypothetically reducing the risks of straying and spawning with or in the same places used by bonafide native wild steelhead in the lower river tributaries. Even when the risk is small, management might see it as a small thing to change the program when total production stays the same, or even increases. Is the change beneficial to sport fishing? Probably not, but that's not the only consideration in the equation that management is faced with balancing.

The sport fishing world we live in has changed dramatically in recent years. Not so long ago - and when hatchery smolt to adult returns were significantly higher - a lot of management decisions were approved if they improved sport fishing opportunity and resulted in grip-n-grin photos in Fishing and Hunting News. That was good PR for WDG, then WDW, then WDFW. ESA has certainly changed a lot of that. Hatchery steelhead production for Puget Sound streams has been reduced 65% over the last 10 years. That, combined with pitifully low SAR has made winter steelhead fishing pretty much a waste of time. Total Cowlitz hatchery steelhead has remained about the same, last I heard, the difference being that early winters were terminated, late winters increased, and summer run production increased. Unfortunately, SAR is so darn low, returns are so bad that I didn't fish the Cowlitz even once this summer or fall. That's a first, but I digress. A lot of decisions to reduce hatchery steelhead stocking and limiting the hatchery release points to places where adult collection of uncaught fish is highly likely are based on helping recovery of wild, or natural production, ESA steelhead. IMO that won't have much of an affect on recovery because recovery is dependent on more significant factors. But as you know, there are a lot to True Believers who are certain that hatchery steelhead are a main cause of poor wild steelhead production.

Sg

Top
#1015521 - 10/12/19 06:55 AM Re: Cowlitz issues [Re: Carcassman]
FleaFlickr02 Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/28/09
Posts: 3314
Not producing fish saves a lot of dollars. Might be another factor.

Whether it's how much better the fishing used to be or how much pressure it used to keep off other steelhead fisheries, just about everyone misses the not-so-old days on the Cowlitz.

Top
#1015528 - 10/12/19 10:02 AM Re: Cowlitz issues [Re: FleaFlickr02]
Larry B Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 3020
Loc: University Place and Whidbey I...
Originally Posted By: FleaFlickr02
Not producing fish saves a lot of dollars. Might be another factor.

Whether it's how much better the fishing used to be or how much pressure it used to keep off other steelhead fisheries, just about everyone misses the not-so-old days on the Cowlitz.



Driving into those Cowlitz boat launches/parking lots now it is hard to believe they would be absolutely full back then during early winter run steelhead season.
_________________________
Remember to immediately record your catch or you may become the catch!

It's the person who has done nothing who is sure nothing can be done. (Ewing)

Top
#1015536 - 10/12/19 10:47 AM Re: Cowlitz issues [Re: Larry B]
DrifterWA Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 04/25/00
Posts: 5074
Loc: East of Aberdeen, West of Mont...
Originally Posted By: Larry B
Originally Posted By: FleaFlickr02
Not producing fish saves a lot of dollars. Might be another factor.

Whether it's how much better the fishing used to be or how much pressure it used to keep off other steelhead fisheries, just about everyone misses the not-so-old days on the Cowlitz.



Driving into those Cowlitz boat launches/parking lots now it is hard to believe they would be absolutely full back then during early winter run steelhead season.


As a long time Grays Harbor resident....Oh how I wish for the "hay day days" of the Cowlitz River, kept the guides and many of the "big city fishers" busy catching springers, winter and summer steelhead, Coho.....Now when I fish, I have the big boat guides, 100's of drift boats, and the walk in fishermen to contend with. More people, less fish.....not a good situation!!!!!
_________________________
"Worse day sport fishing, still better than the best day working"

"I thought growing older, would take longer"

Top
#1015593 - 10/13/19 09:12 AM Re: Cowlitz issues [Re: DrifterWA]
Bay wolf Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 10/26/12
Posts: 1075
Loc: Graham, WA
Originally Posted By: DrifterWA
More people, less fish.....not a good situation!!!!!



Unfortunately, this is how it's going to be everywhere from here on. The really sad thing is, for all the young fishermen, THESE ARE the good ol days.

Top
Page 3 of 3 < 1 2 3

Search

Site Links
Home
Our Washington Fishing
Our Alaska Fishing
Reports
Rates
Contact Us
About Us
Recipes
Photos / Videos
Visit us on Facebook
Today's Birthdays
CHUBS
Recent Gallery Pix
hatchery steelhead
Hatchery Releases into the Pacific and Harvest
Who's Online
0 registered (), 939 Guests and 1 Spider online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
John Boob, Lawrence, I'm Still RichG, feyt, Freezeout
11498 Registered Users
Top Posters
Todd 28170
Dan S. 17149
Sol Duc 16138
The Moderator 14486
Salmo g. 13521
eyeFISH 12766
STRIKE ZONE 12107
Dogfish 10979
ParaLeaks 10513
Jerry Garcia 9160
Forum Stats
11498 Members
16 Forums
63773 Topics
645302 Posts

Max Online: 3001 @ 01/28/20 02:48 PM

Join the PP forums.

It's quick, easy, and always free!

Working for the fish and our future fishing opportunities:

The Wild Steelhead Coalition

The Photo & Video Gallery. Nearly 1200 images from our fishing trips! Tips, techniques, live weight calculator & more in the Fishing Resource Center. The time is now to get prime dates for 2018 Olympic Peninsula Winter Steelhead , don't miss out!.

| HOME | ALASKA FISHING | WASHINGTON FISHING | RIVER REPORTS | FORUMS | FISHING RESOURCE CENTER | CHARTER RATES | CONTACT US | WHAT ABOUT BOB? | PHOTO & VIDEO GALLERY | LEARN ABOUT THE FISH | RECIPES | SITE HELP & FAQ |