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#1019247 - 12/22/19 12:59 PM Money for nothing?
large edward Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 12/17/10
Posts: 254
Loc: Brier, WA
Our illustrious WA state governor has come up with another beauty... or is it just the same old broken record?

http://nwsportsmanmag.com/inslee-proposes-fish-hunt-fee-increase/


Edited by large edward (12/22/19 01:08 PM)

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#1019257 - 12/23/19 08:44 AM Re: Money for nothing? [Re: large edward]
Salmo g. Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 12949
Might as well hit legislators early and often beginning the day after Christmas, reminding them that WDFW is asking for more $$ at the same time it is closing recreational fisheries whenever tribes demand because the agency has made no effort to secure its own separate ESA permit from NMFS. Contact your own legislators and the ones on the Senate Environment and Natural Resource Committee and the Ways and Means Committees of both houses every two weeks until the session is over.

The CCA-led effort in the last session prevented fee increases, so it can be done. Make the effort again, or WDFW will think we really want to pay more while they reduce our seasons.

Funny thing is, if WDFW acted like they were on our (sportfishermen's) side, I'd happily pay double for a fishing license. The cost isn't an issue until the agency took up backstabbing as Department policy.

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#1019260 - 12/23/19 09:31 AM Re: Money for nothing? [Re: large edward]
NickD90 Online   content
Shooting Instructor for hire

Registered: 10/26/10
Posts: 6749
Loc: Snohomish, WA
Salmo - you're in a position to afford it. Licenses are already very expensive as it is - with minimal to show for the cost. Add in all of the other expenses that come with fishing and it's increasingly becoming a rich man's sport. What if you are a young dad with a young family? That could be 1000's out of pocket. An extra $10 here or $50 there and it really adds up.

Between all of my fishing and hunting licenses in this last year, I think I spent around $400 - 500. That's just for licenses. I'm a single guy without kids and I do very well for myself financially. I couldn't imagine trying to do it with 4 kids.

WDFW = Mariners Baseball. A whole lot of cost for not much action.
_________________________
“If the military were fighting for our freedom, they would be storming Capitol Hill”. – FleaFlickr02

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#1019264 - 12/23/19 10:51 AM Re: Money for nothing? [Re: large edward]
Bay wolf Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 10/26/12
Posts: 1067
Loc: Graham, WA
If you're in private business and you can't make profit enough to survive, you trim fat.

WDFW is top heavy with people who essentially do very little compared with what they contribute. Has been for a long time. It's typical of most government agencies. But with Kelly's approach of creating more top management (Remember Ron Warren's "promotion") and without any real change to business as usual, I sure as hell have no inclination to pay more for the opportunity to fish.

Hunters may feel differently, I can't speak for that, since I don't hunt anymore. But I consider myself an average guy when it comes to fishing in this state. I'm not made of money and I sure don't feel like my interests are really being considered anymore by the Commission nor the administration of WDFW.

Gov. Inslee is attempting to backdoor a rate increase, just like he has with a lot of other things. He was quite happy that he funded his failed Presidential run on the taxpayers back.

I can't help but suspect that Dir. Susewind has participated in the formation of this effort as well. It goes without saying that rather than look for real solutions, Kelly's approach echos that of his predecessors, which is: KEEP THINGS SECRET AND GET MORE MONEY OUT OF THE RECREATIONAL ANGLERS, THEY ARE, AFTER ALL, WDFW'S CASH COW!

I am in full agreement with Salmo on this: Everyone who has had their fill of underhanded, back door moves like this, and the results we've seen from our (loose "our") Commission and the Department need to voice their opposition to your representatives and those in the Environment and Natural Resource Committee and the Ways and Means Committees of both houses.

It's glaringly obvious that attending meetings and giving testimony in front of the Commission and to representatives of the Department has very little worth, if any at all anymore.

Our vote is the only real power you have left as a private citizen it seems.

Here is a link with information on how to contact your State Representatives:

CONTACT YOUR STATE REPRESENTATIVES
_________________________
"Forgiveness is between them and God. My job is to arrange the meeting."

1Sgt U.S. Army (Ret)

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#1019265 - 12/23/19 10:52 AM Re: Money for nothing? [Re: NickD90]
Larry B Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 2866
Loc: University Place and Whidbey I...
Originally Posted By: NickD90
Salmo - you're in a position to afford it. Licenses are already very expensive as it is - with minimal to show for the cost. Add in all of the other expenses that come with fishing and it's increasingly becoming a rich man's sport. What if you are a young dad with a young family? That could be 1000's out of pocket. An extra $10 here or $50 there and it really adds up.

Between all of my fishing and hunting licenses in this last year, I think I spent around $400 - 500. That's just for licenses. I'm a single guy without kids and I do very well for myself financially. I couldn't imagine trying to do it with 4 kids.

WDFW = Mariners Baseball. A whole lot of cost for not much action.



Kids are costly; four kids very costly. Four??? On purpose????

Anyway, just remember that licenses are free up until about the age of 16.
_________________________
Remember to immediately record your catch or you may become the catch!

It's the person who has done nothing who is sure nothing can be done. (Ewing)

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#1019268 - 12/23/19 11:17 AM Re: Money for nothing? [Re: large edward]
DrifterWA Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 04/25/00
Posts: 4679
Loc: East of Aberdeen, West of Mont...

WDFW, time to get real....The money tree is bare, sports fishermen have paid more than their share and watched as the resource has been on the decline and even RW's "opportunity" is taking more of a hit, less fishing time.

Washington State needs to get in line with "out of State", license purchasers paying a significant higher rate than Residents. I would suggest a increase of 4 timers the current rate.....across the board.

Columbia River endorsement needs to needs to go away---forever!!!! It was a temporary fee, set up for a period of time. SB 5421, 2009, was the Bill that got the Endorsement started......In the Bill, the ending date was January 1, 2016.
_________________________

"Worse day sport fishing, still better than the best day working"

"I thought growing older would take longer"

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#1019269 - 12/23/19 11:54 AM Re: Money for nothing? [Re: large edward]
Larry B Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 2866
Loc: University Place and Whidbey I...
The CR Endorsement was initially proposed to open up opportunities in the upper CR basin. The legislature expanded its coverage exponentially but fortunately included regular reporting requirement and, most importantly, a sunset provision. In its last year or two of its life efforts were being made to reduce the reporting requirement and to expand coverage to include B10 to Tongue Point. Then the self-inflicted mortal wound of reneging on the CR Reforms and allowing continued gill netting on the main stem.

So, no to revival of the CR Endorsement.
_________________________
Remember to immediately record your catch or you may become the catch!

It's the person who has done nothing who is sure nothing can be done. (Ewing)

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#1019270 - 12/23/19 11:58 AM Re: Money for nothing? [Re: Salmo g.]
SpoonFed Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 01/29/19
Posts: 1243
Originally Posted By: Salmo g.


Funny thing is, if WDFW acted like they were on our (sportfishermen's) side, I'd happily pay double for a fishing license. The cost isn't an issue until the agency took up backstabbing as Department policy.


Bingo!



Drifter, the endorsement was kaput earlier this year.

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#1019271 - 12/23/19 12:20 PM Re: Money for nothing? [Re: SpoonFed]
DrifterWA Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 04/25/00
Posts: 4679
Loc: East of Aberdeen, West of Mont...
Originally Posted By: Spoonfedhead





Drifter, the endorsement was kaput earlier this year.



I know BUT ITS GOING TO BE BACK ON THE TABLE...….Grrrrrrrrrr Believe me....


Edited by DrifterWA (12/23/19 12:23 PM)
_________________________

"Worse day sport fishing, still better than the best day working"

"I thought growing older would take longer"

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#1019272 - 12/23/19 12:40 PM Re: Money for nothing? [Re: large edward]
Krijack Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 06/03/06
Posts: 1231
Loc: Tacoma
I love to fish. Always have, always will. My kids and wife, my brother, and multiple friends, have all fished or would fish with me, if the fishing was good. Otherwise, they could care less. If fishing were decent, I alone could get a few hundred dollars in fees to the department, from people who may only go out once or twice. It doesn't have to be anything special, even a few pinks. But, what has happened is that even if the pinks or chums are there, because no other opportunities exist, the crowds are not something I want a novice to put up with. In the end, I rarely ask anyone to come along. Lately the opportunities have been so poor I don't even want to submit my diehard friends to come along. It feels very hard to ask someone to put up money for a license, go out all day, and not even see anyone catch anything. The more they kick up fees without producing, the less money they will get. The downward spiral is not going to end unless they get a clue about how the market actually works. The demise of the Snoopy Classic is a perfect example. Even this crowd feels uncomfortable asking others to show up for a near non-existent opportunity.

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#1019274 - 12/23/19 01:40 PM Re: Money for nothing? [Re: large edward]
Carcassman Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 5884
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
I don't mind buying licenses for either hunting or fishing. Since I buy out of state, the cost is totally the issue. But, there has to be some resource to interact with. I don't have to actually catch fish, but I need to see them rising or striking. I don't need to kill deer/ducks/geese but I do have to see animals that are legal and in range.

One of my gripes is that I like to walk and wade fish, even in lakes and ponds. WA is doing a fairly goof job of producing boat-based fisheries. I get seasick too easily to enjoy boats. If I found some nice fishing. especially closeby, I would be doing it.

WDFW needs to figure out how to get people out fishing and hunting. Especially how to get people started.

Smalma often reminisces about Lowland Lakes OD. I remember that the bios used to go out, sample the lakes, and report it in the paper. Then report the results. And there were derbies, "breakfasts", and the like. It was Big Deal. As was OD for hunting with reports and so on. The agency acts as if they wish the users would just go away.

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#1019276 - 12/23/19 04:19 PM Re: Money for nothing? [Re: large edward]
Salmo g. Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 12949
Nick,

Yeah, I can afford a fishing license. My kids are grown and on their own, so even as a fixed income retiree I have more discretionary money than I did while raising my family. Enough so that I can buy a non-resident British Columbia fishing license and a non-resident Montana, oh, and last summer a non-resident Colorado fishing license. And all of those non-resident licenses are better values than my resident WA fishing license. Why is that? Because none of my non-resident licenses help pay $93 million for salmon hatcheries, where over half the salmon are caught in Canada, and of those that return to WA, most are caught by non-treaty commercial and treaty fisheries, with a paltry few being creeled by recreational anglers.

This is a matter of principle for me even if it is about the $$ for many. And no one should have 4 kids who cannot afford them. - As Todd wrote, stupidity should hurt.

I don't want a return of the Columbia River endorsement. It originated at sportfishermen's request to fund fishery monitoring of mid-C and tributary fisheries as required by NMFS because of ESA stocks being present. And WDFW adopted a Columbia River policy in 2013 to phase out mainstem CR non-treaty gillnetting. Last year the WDFW Commission double-crossed sportsfishers by backpedaling on that policy, and the mid-C tributaries haven't been open to fishing in several years. I'm willing to pay the CRE when the streams re-open and WDFW moves forward, not backward on the CR gillnetting policy.

WDFW is planning to close the Skagit steelhead season in 2021 unless they get their supplemental budget request. And they close the Stillaguamish River for 3 1/2 months (last Sat. in May through Sept. 15) because the tribes have the Department by the short and curlies at NOF, not because of Chinook conservation as they falsely claimed. And they closed most of the Chehalis River basin last summer initially due to low spring Chinook abundance, even though spring Chinook are always in low abundance, along with appropriate Chinook closures throughout the basin for conservation. As one of the Region 6 bios wrote in an email string, ". . . if we close rivers to all species fishing every time we have a low (salmon) escapement, we're out of business." Or words to that effect.

If WDFW thinks gamefish closures are the solution to their low salmon abundance fish management problems, then I want them out of business. If WDFW won't fight for sportfishing, then taxpayers and license buyers are being ripped off. If they want to take our money and use it for foreign, commercial, and treaty fishing, but not sportfishing, then the Department is more useless than tits on a boar.

As near as I can tell, the Department has no plan, nor any plan to make a plan, for the Stilly to be open for gamefish in 2020. They seem content to have it closed for the next 100 years or until Stilly Chinook are extinct. Five years now, and no intention to even try to secure their own ESA permit from NMFS so that tribes can't tell them how to manage sportfishing. I don't see how that isn't criminal negligence. And we should pay increased fees to support this?

If I were compute savy enough, I'd set up an automatic system to bombard legislators with 200 emails a day from now through the end of the session to remind them that they should gut the Department's budget, all except for the part to pay for Skagit fishery monitoring. Bastards!

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#1019288 - 12/24/19 08:56 AM Re: Money for nothing? [Re: large edward]
Bent Metal Offline
Carcass

Registered: 01/09/14
Posts: 2075
Loc: Sky River(WA) Clearwater(Id)
I havent bought a Wa fishing license in 4+ years. Sportsfisherman keep picking the low hanging fruit, when one door closes we just gravitate to another species of fish. That will only work for so long until we will all be warmwater fisherman, bass, perch, etc.... Maybe they will stock more planters for opening day!!!! At this rate steelheading will be done fairly soon, then salmon. Its not a matter of "if" anymore, its just a matter of when it all closes..... very sad
_________________________




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#1019295 - 12/24/19 10:07 AM Re: Money for nothing? [Re: large edward]
BossMan Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 09/20/01
Posts: 374
Loc: Seattle
So it looks red users are expected to kick in another 14.3 million every two years. I assume the commercials will be contributing a similar amount.

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#1019296 - 12/24/19 10:58 AM Re: Money for nothing? [Re: Salmo g.]
darth baiter Offline
Juvenile at Sea

Registered: 04/04/10
Posts: 104
Loc: United States
Salmo G. FYI. "where over half the salmon are caught in Canada, and of those that return to WA, most are caught by non-treaty commercial and treaty fisheries, with a paltry few being creeled by recreational anglers." Yes, a bunch are caught be Canada. Regarding the non-treaty commercial fishery, catches have been greatly reduced since the late 1990's in Puget Sound for Chinook and coho and are now much less than recreational.

See Table B39 and B40 in attached for catches in Puget Sound salmon fisheries.


https://www.pcouncil.org/wp-content/uplo...inal_021419.pdf

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#1019298 - 12/24/19 04:36 PM Re: Money for nothing? [Re: Salmo g.]
Tug 3 Offline
Juvenile at Sea

Registered: 03/06/14
Posts: 142
Wow! Very well stated. I would hope that you could find a way to email your comments to each legislators. My situation is near identical to yours except in a different geographic location: Chehalis basin and O.P.

South Sound crabbing was allowed to be fished out by sports and poorly regulated treaty fishery. Hood Canal once had six weeks of shrimping, now only a few days. Deschutes was open to sport fishing on 100 percent hatchery Chinook, now all returnees are sold as surplus. Queets River should support a population of thirty thousand winter steelhead. Now it struggles to meet a stupidly low escapement number that WDFW and the Quinault Nation can't agree on. The Clearwater suffers right along with the Queets. The Hoh? Similar deal. Ocean salmon were once a three fish limit and open from April through October. McAllister Hatchery is now closed and along with it Percival Cove net pens, so winter blackmouth is almost non-existent. WDFW sold the best South Sound hardshell beach to Taylor Shellfish. WDFW can't do what's right about Wynoochee mitigation, or follow their own Willapa policy.

Whew! I still dig razor clams.

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#1019300 - 12/24/19 09:01 PM Re: Money for nothing? [Re: large edward]
Carcassman Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 5884
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
Those who have paid attention for decades, especially if you viewed wide areas, shows what we have lost. Or at least misplaced for a while.

Some of our resources are more abundant, lots are less, some are really variable. We humans don't seem to be able to take a long-range look. For those who have been out there, species are changing. Anchovy instead of herring. Where are the amphibians???

Way back in my youth, growing up (some debate this) in CA, I was of the opinion that the state source agency knew all there was to know about the animal resources. I had a question about trout, bears, mice, ducks, etc. there was somebody in CFG who either knew the answer or would find out and get back to me.

Today? I don't know were the expertise lies, but it is not in the Agencies. How can you manage fish, game, trees, etc. if you don't clearly understand the biology and use it as basis?

And, as to this Razor Clams, Tug, Sea Otters love them. Ask Californians what happened to the Pismos when otters moved in.....

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#1019303 - 12/25/19 07:57 AM Re: Money for nothing? [Re: large edward]
ONTHESAUK Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 11/03/01
Posts: 416
Loc: Mount Vernon, WA
"The human mind may not have evolved enough to be able to comprehend deep time."
John McPhee
_________________________
Don’t attribute irritating behavior to malevolence when mere stupidity will suffice as an explanation.

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#1019312 - 12/25/19 08:02 PM Re: Money for nothing? [Re: Tug 3]
Larry B Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 2866
Loc: University Place and Whidbey I...
Originally Posted By: Tug 3

South Sound crabbing was allowed to be fished out by sports and poorly regulated treaty fishery.


Tug, South Sound crab demise was also a victim of WDFW's 3-S management scheme; Size-Sex-Season. The current Shellfish Manager wrote in a presentation to the Commission (12 April 2018) that the 3-S system was developed for coastal waters and may not be appropriate for areas with limited water exchanges such as South Sound. And then there was one tribe which harvested 3X its quota one year and 2X the following year and then decided to not sign off on any harvest numbers.
Recreational harvest was comparatively miniscule.
_________________________
Remember to immediately record your catch or you may become the catch!

It's the person who has done nothing who is sure nothing can be done. (Ewing)

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#1019316 - 12/26/19 06:45 AM Re: Money for nothing? [Re: large edward]
Carcassman Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 5884
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
Larry brings up a good point. I suspect (having been there) that much of our resource management is based on "average" production. For example, the average coho stock can support 50% exploitation. So, we apply that to all. What if PS is actually marginal for crab? What if few eggs actually survive to settle? Once they settle, they do super well but few make it that far.

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