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#1020286 - 01/17/20 11:31 AM Re: Skagit Steelhead Season [Re: Salmo g.]
DrifterWA Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 04/25/00
Posts: 4631
Loc: East of Aberdeen, West of Mont...

Because I live in an area that in my life time has watched 20-30 pound steelhead go from MANY to FEW.

We all watched as Washington State now allows NO sport caught Native/Wild steelhead to be retained, UNLESS you are on a tribal river.

You can point finger at what has caused decline on Large Steelhead. The bottom line is sports probably should have been curtailed years before when they were and Tribal gill nets that in my area targeted early hatchery steelhead, UNTIL WDFW stopped many of the early plants of winter run steelhead. QIN now nets November until late, April/May, as we all know that is Native steelhead timing, and what I can't find is "how many spawned steelhead get caught in nets, on way to ocean....thus never get a chance to spawn a 2nd or more times.....

It'd be nice to see WDFW and tribe, set a date when NO FISHING is allowed when the majority of Native steelhead are in the systems....for 4 or 5 cycles of these fish. What is going on now....JUST ISN'T WORKING!!!
_________________________

"Worse day sport fishing, still better than the best day working"

"I thought growing older would take longer"

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#1020287 - 01/17/20 11:45 AM Re: Skagit Steelhead Season [Re: Salmo g.]
WDFW X 1 = 0 Offline
Official Darkside Fucktard Whisperer

Registered: 01/27/15
Posts: 2941
You can check out the Quinault bank guide thread on I-fish if you really want to read all the excuses.

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#1020292 - 01/17/20 01:19 PM Re: Skagit Steelhead Season [Re: Salmo g.]
FleaFlickr02 Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/28/09
Posts: 2964
We've been discussing that 2-salts seem to be the least present these days, which is bizarre on its face. It makes zero sense that fish that mature faster should be the least numerous contingent of an overall population. That said, the data seem to point to that conclusion. As I understand it (not all that well), the QIN programs use the biggest fish they can find. Some of those are likely repeat spawners, but most are likely just 3-4 salt fish on their first spawning return. Anyway, if fish with longer life histories are faring better than those with shorter ones, it might explain why the hatchery fish from the QIN programs are doing better than others (if still not very well). Another thing to consider is that the habitat in the Quinault and Queets drainages is the best habitat left in the state, and that might mean better returns per spawner invested...

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#1020295 - 01/17/20 01:44 PM Re: Skagit Steelhead Season [Re: Salmo g.]
bushbear Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 08/26/02
Posts: 4651
Loc: Sequim
Just came out today

Quinault Indian Nation
POST OFFICE BOX 189 Ľ TAHOLAH, WASHINGTON 98587 ē TELEPHONE (360) 276-0211
Humptulips River and Area 2C Commercial Fishing Regulation- 03 Winter Steelhead Season 2019*2020
January 14, 2020
This regulation replaces regulation #2 for the remaining January schedule in order to revise set-in and pull-out dates and times. The Humptulips River, from its mouth upstream to the railroad bridge at Newton, and Grays Harbor Area 2C, will be open for commercial gill net fishing for authorized Quinault Tribal fishers according to the following schedules.
The winter fishery will begin at 6:00 am on the opening day and end at 6:00 pm on the closing dayofeachweek. Openingandclosingdatesareasfollows;
Stat Wk 1
04 05
Set-in
Monday, Jan. 20 Monday., Jan. 27
Pull-out
Friday, Jan. 24 Friday, Jan. 31
Gear: Maximum mesh size for these openings will be 6 Vi inches.
**A1! Green Sturgeon must be released immediately when encountered.
White Sturgeon Size Retention Restriction: Only White Sturgeon that fall within the legal size slot limits may be retained, during authorized commercial treaty fishery openings in the Humptulips River and Grays Harbor Area 2C. The lega,! slot size limit for White Sturgeon is 38 to 54 inches (as measured with fish lying flat on its side, tip of snout to the fork of the tail fin).
White Sturgeon must be measured immediately upon removal from net. Sturgeon outside of the legal size slots are to be immediately released. The removal, or mutilation, of the head .or tail of any sturgeon prior to delivery is prohibited.
The total subsistence bag limit per authorized fishermen for the season is 30 white sturgeon.
Tagged Encounters: Sturgeon with spaghetti tags, located near the top fin, should be reported to Quinault Fisheries as to: 1) tag number and color, 2) date and location caught, 3) length, and 4)
Humptulips 2019-20 Winter Commercial Steelhead Reg.- 03-Jan 14, 2020

I
16-JPN-E0E0 13:06 From:360E76468E
Paee:EXE
whether the fish was retained or released.
Sales of Fish: A fishermen may only sell their catch to authorized Quinault Nation Buyers with the following exception: a fisherman may sell no more than a daily total of 3 salmon and steelhead (combined) directly to consumers.
Boating Regulations: In addition, all boats participating in off-reservation treaty fisheries shall carry personal flotation devices (PFDs) and visual distress signals, in the number and manner required by 33 CFR Part 175, as adopted by QBC Resolution No. 13-383(A)-92,
All other provisions of the QIN Grays Harbor Fall and Winter Off-Reservation Salmon/Steelhead Fishing General Regulations will be in effect.
According to the General Regulations, it is each fisherman's legal responsibility to see that alJ catch is reported on the daily fish ticket. This includes: commercial, incidental sales, take-home, and ceremonial catch.
All catch must be reported each day for each ground (to be reported immediately after the fish are brought to shore, before the fish house closes, or if the fish house has already closed, then it must be reported by 12:00 noon the next day the fish house is open.
FishTickets: FishticketsshallbeissuedatthetimeofpurchaseusingtheQuinaultElectronic Fish Ticket System (QEFTS) per QIN Business Committee Resolution No. 18-104-97. Two receipts will be printed at the time of the transaction, each signed by the fisher (seller) and the buyer and each keeping a copy for their records. The electronic fish ticket will record the person- that actually caught the fish under a valid QIN permit Or authorization; his or her ED number, and the ground location number, if applicable, or a notation of drift netting. If a person is signing a fish ticket as an assistant, helper, or hired fisherman, the electronic fish ticket shall also include the name and identification number of the fisher being assisted.
All catch must be reported each day for each ground (to be reported immediately after the fish are brought to shore, before the fish house closes, or if the fish house has already closed, then it must be reported by 12:00 noon the next day
&L
Quinault Policy Spokesman
Off-Res. Fish Committee
Humptulips 2019*20 Winter Commercial Steelhead Reg.* 03-Jan 14, 2020

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#1020296 - 01/17/20 02:46 PM Re: Skagit Steelhead Season [Re: FleaFlickr02]
Todd Offline
Bumpin the 6X9's

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 25363
Loc: Seattle, Washington USA
Originally Posted By: FleaFlickr02
We've been discussing that 2-salts seem to be the least present these days, which is bizarre on its face. It makes zero sense that fish that mature faster should be the least numerous contingent of an overall population. That said, the data seem to point to that conclusion. As I understand it (not all that well), the QIN programs use the biggest fish they can find. Some of those are likely repeat spawners, but most are likely just 3-4 salt fish on their first spawning return. Anyway, if fish with longer life histories are faring better than those with shorter ones, it might explain why the hatchery fish from the QIN programs are doing better than others (if still not very well). Another thing to consider is that the habitat in the Quinault and Queets drainages is the best habitat left in the state, and that might mean better returns per spawner invested...


That would be bizarre if 2-salts were absent every year and 3-salts were plentiful...but I would be far more worried about the likelihood that the 2 salts are absent because that entire age class died as juveniles, and this year's 3 salts were already a year old when that happened.

Fish on...

Todd

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#1020297 - 01/17/20 02:52 PM Re: Skagit Steelhead Season [Re: Salmo g.]
Carcassman Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 5734
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
Back when the Pyramid Lake cutthroat vanished, I think the last spawning run was averaged 20 pounds. Great run!. Next year it averaged zero as all that was in the run was old fish.

The lack of 1 salt and 2 salt returns should be scary because they should be most abundant. Unless, for whatever reason, the older fish were what was spawned in recent years and they are creating a run of 3-salts.

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#1020299 - 01/17/20 03:08 PM Re: Skagit Steelhead Season [Re: Todd]
FleaFlickr02 Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/28/09
Posts: 2964
Originally Posted By: Todd
Originally Posted By: FleaFlickr02
We've been discussing that 2-salts seem to be the least present these days, which is bizarre on its face. It makes zero sense that fish that mature faster should be the least numerous contingent of an overall population. That said, the data seem to point to that conclusion. As I understand it (not all that well), the QIN programs use the biggest fish they can find. Some of those are likely repeat spawners, but most are likely just 3-4 salt fish on their first spawning return. Anyway, if fish with longer life histories are faring better than those with shorter ones, it might explain why the hatchery fish from the QIN programs are doing better than others (if still not very well). Another thing to consider is that the habitat in the Quinault and Queets drainages is the best habitat left in the state, and that might mean better returns per spawner invested...


That would be bizarre if 2-salts were absent every year and 3-salts were plentiful...but I would be far more worried about the likelihood that the 2 salts are absent because that entire age class died as juveniles, and this year's 3 salts were already a year old when that happened.

Fish on...

Todd


Since we don't have a button, insert Like with sad face. Makes a lot of unfortunate sense.

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#1020300 - 01/17/20 04:10 PM Re: Skagit Steelhead Season [Re: ]
Salmo g. Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 12745
Originally Posted By: Hanker
Iíve begrudgingly read it, and Iíve read Salmoís anti hatchery fish propaganda there too. I know why the Quins are successful but thought Iíd ask the question here because fuk Ifish.


[Bleeeeep!]! Where you getting this anti-hatchery propaganda little Hanker spanker? How's about put up, or shut up? I'm pro fish. That's hatchery fish and wild fish. I just explain differences between hatchery and wild fish when folks pose questions. If you interpret explanations as being anti hatchery fish, well then, I can't help it if you're stupid. And you probably can't either.

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#1020301 - 01/17/20 04:15 PM Re: Skagit Steelhead Season [Re: ]
Salmo g. Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 12745
Originally Posted By: Hanker
How do the Quinault get back such good returns of hatchery Steelhead, but the State canít seem to do the same. Why isnít the State on the same program? I understand that the PS rivers have their own set of issues that might make any program difficult. Seems like the Quinís or preferably the state, ought to be able to replicate their results in other coastal streams.


The fact is, we don't know that the Quinault get such good returns of hatchery steelhead because we don't know either the number of smolts released or an estimate of the number of adults that return. Without those numbers it's impossible to know if Quinault return rates are any better or worse than WDFW's. Since the Quinault is a coastal river, it probably gets a higher rate of return than Puget Sound rivers, but we have no idea if it is any better than other coastal rivers.

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#1020302 - 01/17/20 04:30 PM Re: Skagit Steelhead Season [Re: Salmo g.]
Carcassman Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 5734
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
Basically why, if management is supposed to be Court-mandated "Co" we can't get the answers? It is possible that QIN is doing things "right" and if WDFW tried it we might have success.

Why won't WDFW ensure that all the numbers from egg takes to plants to escapements to returns to catch are rapidly and accurately reported and shared?

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#1020304 - 01/17/20 06:31 PM Re: Skagit Steelhead Season [Re: Salmo g.]
darth baiter Offline
Smolt

Registered: 04/04/10
Posts: 86
Loc: United States
Hatchery release info on steelhead by QIN can be obtained from the coastwide salmon and steelhead release data base RMPC.org. This data base shows steelhead smolts releases by QIN into the Quinault basin averaged 253K during 2009-17. As far as I know there is no corresponding data base of harvest and escapements in the Quinalt system so survival rates can't be calculated.

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#1020336 - 01/18/20 02:45 PM Re: Skagit Steelhead Season [Re: darth baiter]
eddie Offline
Carcass

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 2240
Loc: Valencia, Negros Oriental, Phi...
Originally Posted By: darth baiter
Hatchery release info on steelhead by QIN can be obtained from the coastwide salmon and steelhead release data base RMPC.org. This data base shows steelhead smolts releases by QIN into the Quinault basin averaged 253K during 2009-17. As far as I know there is no corresponding data base of harvest and escapements in the Quinalt system so survival rates can't be calculated.

I tried to go to the site you mentioned and was unable to reach it. Are there special permissions required or a slight difference in spelling? TIA.
_________________________
"You're not a g*dda*n looney Martini, you're a fisherman"

R.P. McMurphy - One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest

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#1020350 - 01/18/20 05:13 PM Re: Skagit Steelhead Season [Re: eddie]
darth baiter Offline
Smolt

Registered: 04/04/10
Posts: 86
Loc: United States
No special permission required. Try google search on:
Regional Mark Processing Center.

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#1020374 - 01/19/20 08:23 AM Re: Skagit Steelhead Season [Re: Salmo g.]
RUNnGUN Offline
Spawner

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 985
FYI. I have from a reliable Quinault tribal guide that the runs are way down this year so far. 3 days last week on the Salmon in perfect conditions 5 fish. It should be peaking now. We would do that per person in a day in good conditions. Seems to be following what's going on coast wide. The season is far from over, but it's beginning to appear even their program is struggling to get numbers back. I wonder how their brood collection is going on the lake?
_________________________
"After fishing for Steelhead for over 45 years, Steelheading as I know it is gone in Puget Sound!"
ME

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#1020376 - 01/19/20 09:18 AM Re: Skagit Steelhead Season [Re: Salmo g.]
RUNnGUN Offline
Spawner

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 985
Have not. Been only once and nothing going on, but not in the tribal area and in marginal conditions. Hard to buck up when I've experienced double digit days, and hear of lots less this season. Onesies twosies ain't it, but most might think that's hot. Double digit hookups per person, at least for my group, used to be the norm. Seems not this year. If you have a report please share. It's no secret any more.


Edited by RUNnGUN (01/19/20 09:21 AM)
_________________________
"After fishing for Steelhead for over 45 years, Steelheading as I know it is gone in Puget Sound!"
ME

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#1020378 - 01/19/20 09:48 AM Re: Skagit Steelhead Season [Re: Salmo g.]
cobble cruiser Offline
~B-F-D~

Registered: 03/27/09
Posts: 2209
Originally Posted By: Salmo g.
Originally Posted By: Hanker
How do the Quinault get back such good returns of hatchery Steelhead, but the State canít seem to do the same. Why isnít the State on the same program? I understand that the PS rivers have their own set of issues that might make any program difficult. Seems like the Quinís or preferably the state, ought to be able to replicate their results in other coastal streams.


The fact is, we don't know that the Quinault get such good returns of hatchery steelhead because we don't know either the number of smolts released or an estimate of the number of adults that return. Without those numbers it's impossible to know if Quinault return rates are any better or worse than WDFW's. Since the Quinault is a coastal river, it probably gets a higher rate of return than Puget Sound rivers, but we have no idea if it is any better than other coastal rivers.



What we do know is that they use in Basin stock for Hatchery steelhead and it's been incredibly successful over the years. Their Hatchery personnel there really care and handpick a lot of the larger size fish for their brood. There are other rivers as well that this has been successful but some rivers not so successful. Is a whole nother can of worms of science then I'm sure Salmo can fill you in on with the disadvantages using native stock for Hatchery steelhead but in the end, I think we all just want to see more fish.
_________________________
http://www.wooldridgeboats.com

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#1020380 - 01/19/20 10:04 AM Re: Skagit Steelhead Season [Re: ]
cobble cruiser Offline
~B-F-D~

Registered: 03/27/09
Posts: 2209
Originally Posted By: Hanker
Iím well aware of the successes theyíve had as I sample it myself 30+ days per winter. Iíve talked to some of the tribal guys about what theyíre doing. There is no doubt in my mind that the state could learn some things from those programs.


Yeah I forget the guys name up at the salmon river hatchery but he is very enthusiastic and loves his job. He always comes down and talks to folks and asks how everybody's doing. He sport fishes and gill nets and it is his livelihood so maybe that helps too.


Edited by cobble cruiser (01/19/20 10:05 AM)
_________________________
http://www.wooldridgeboats.com

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#1020381 - 01/19/20 10:54 AM Re: Skagit Steelhead Season [Re: Salmo g.]
cobble cruiser Offline
~B-F-D~

Registered: 03/27/09
Posts: 2209
Friend of mine is fishing the lower Quinault yesterday and today and is doing well. Just texted me this morning.
_________________________
http://www.wooldridgeboats.com

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#1020389 - 01/19/20 02:53 PM Re: Skagit Steelhead Season [Re: darth baiter]
eddie Offline
Carcass

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 2240
Loc: Valencia, Negros Oriental, Phi...
Originally Posted By: darth baiter
No special permission required. Try google search on:
Regional Mark Processing Center.
Thank you my friend, I got in. Lots of information there,it will take some time to digest!
_________________________
"You're not a g*dda*n looney Martini, you're a fisherman"

R.P. McMurphy - One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest

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