Check

 

Defiance Boats!

LURECHARGE!

THE PP OUTDOOR FORUMS

Kast Gear!

Power Pro Shimano Reels G Loomis Rods

  Willie boats! Puffballs!

 

Three Rivers Marine

 

 
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >
Topic Options
Rate This Topic
#1020663 - 01/26/20 07:42 PM Calawah captive brood steelhead
bushbear Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 08/26/02
Posts: 4668
Loc: Sequim
Just came across this document.

DNS 20-004: CALAWAH WILD STEELHEAD BROOD STOCK PROGRAM AT THE BOGACHIEL HATCHERY


https://wdfw.wa.gov/sites/default/files/...chiel_hatch.pdf


This program replaces the current wild broodstock program on the Bogachiel River. Within the last couple years since the program has switched to the Bogachiel River, there have been two major landslides impacting efforts to obtain broodstock. The Calawah tends to run clearer during the winter months. Additionally, finding a suitable acclimation site has been problematic. The existing Calawah Acclimation site would provide a suitable site to release steelhead from. Approximately 19,000 2019 brood year juvenile steelhead from wild Calawah steelhead adults will be reared and released from Calawah Acclimation Pond into their natal stream at approximately RM 1. Release size will be greater than 10 fpp in April and May of 2020. Broodstock will be captured by hook and line or seine within the Calawah River primarily by local guide association members. Many of the drift boats have live tanks on board to accommodate holding of the wild steelhead. Adult steelhead will then be transferred to WDFW planting tanks where they are then transported to the Bogachiel Hatchery for holding until ready to spawn. Every attempt will be made to live spawn broodstock and return back to the Calawah. All released smolts will be adipose clipped with additional external mark or coded wire tagged.
Subsequent years will have a release goal of 35,000 to 50,000 progeny from wild parents.


Edited by bushbear (01/26/20 07:47 PM)

Top
#1020671 - 01/27/20 06:50 AM Re: Calawah captive brood steelhead [Re: bushbear]
RUNnGUN Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 1069
Awesome! Good to hear the legacy of Snider Crk. continues and modifying the program to make it work better. Hopefully fishers can reap some benefit from it in the future.


Edited by RUNnGUN (01/27/20 04:58 PM)
_________________________
“Smart people only believe half of what they hear. Smarter people know which half to believe”

Top
#1020718 - 01/27/20 12:15 PM Re: Calawah captive brood steelhead [Re: bushbear]
Krijack Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 06/03/06
Posts: 1249
Loc: Tacoma
For those with a better knowledge, could someone try to answer this question. If these fish are being reared and released at river mile one, will most stop in that area when coming back or will they be more likely to spread out and go higher into the system.

Top
#1020725 - 01/27/20 12:40 PM Re: Calawah captive brood steelhead [Re: Krijack]
ArvidBarker Offline
The Crybaby King

Registered: 04/04/13
Posts: 4234
Loc: Monterey CA
They are hatchery turds,and will stray and act goofy like most other hatchery turds . I thought the C•••••h river had a decent native run?
_________________________
yawn...

Top
#1020727 - 01/27/20 12:48 PM Re: Calawah captive brood steelhead [Re: bushbear]
OncyT Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 02/06/08
Posts: 476

It would be interesting to find out more about the purpose and the operation of the program. The DNS makes it sound like the location is basically changing just because of convenience, but a DNS is not designed to provide any real information about the program. I would guess if they could just change locations without mentioning the status of the population, that this program is simply for harvest rather than conservation. I did look for an HGMP for this program but didn't find one. Q: Does WDFW complete HGMP's for hatchery programs where they don't have listed populations? The DNS does state that the program will not have a significant adverse impact on the environment. Q: Does WDFW consider the fish part of the environment? If so, I think there could be a better discussion of why they came to that conclusion.

Top
#1020728 - 01/27/20 12:55 PM Re: Calawah captive brood steelhead [Re: bushbear]
OncyT Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 02/06/08
Posts: 476
I just found the environmental checklist for this project. About the only thing it says about the impact to fish is this:

"Proposed measures to preserve or enhance wildlife, if any:
These updates to the program through adipose fin clipping cwt’ing and rearing location supports mark-selective fishing opportunity, and improves the ability to evaluate and further limits impact on wild steelhead."

Top
#1020729 - 01/27/20 12:59 PM Re: Calawah captive brood steelhead [Re: OncyT]
JustBecause Offline
Juvenile at Sea

Registered: 07/18/08
Posts: 209
I believe it is a program that is meant to replace the older Snider Cr program that was discontinued. Here's a blurb from the OPGA site: http://www.olympicpeninsulaguidesassociation.com/events.html

"Broodstock Program

Many of the area's guides and businesses, as well as many of our clients, have played a very important role on an enhancement project that was based on a tributary to the upper Sol Duc named Snider Creek. With this broodstock program, between 50,000 to 100,000 smolt were planted using wild steelhead, rather than returning hatchery fish for the parent stock of the young. The Snider Creek Project became an important part of the rebuilding and continued maintenance of the early-run native Steelhead stocks on the Sol Duc River. When the Sol Duc river was deemed a "wild steelhead gene bank" river in 2012 the Snider Creek program was relocated to the Bogachiel and we are working on building it back up."


Not sure about the details of operation.

Top
#1020743 - 01/27/20 04:05 PM Re: Calawah captive brood steelhead [Re: bushbear]
OncyT Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 02/06/08
Posts: 476
I would think that even a rudimentary environmental checklist would have some discussion of the expected effects of the program on some basic biologic values like the abundance and productivity of the wild and composite population and at least some cursory discussion of the potential genetic effects of the program before one would issue a Determination of Nonsignificance. Apparently not.

Top
#1020750 - 01/27/20 05:22 PM Re: Calawah captive brood steelhead [Re: bushbear]
Carcassman Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 5925
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
Sometimes I think the process is designed to shed light on a project while in other cases the process is designed to conceal.

At best, that should be an MDNS as there are effects of the cultured fish on the wild runs and effects of the culture itself on the environment.

Top
#1020751 - 01/27/20 05:32 PM Re: Calawah captive brood steelhead [Re: Carcassman]
OncyT Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 02/06/08
Posts: 476
Originally Posted By: Carcassman
Sometimes I think the process is designed to shed light on a project while in other cases the process is designed to conceal.

At best, that should be an MDNS as there are effects of the cultured fish on the wild runs and effects of the culture itself on the environment.

I don't think the department treats their own projects the way they would treat someone else's. If a developer, for instance, was going to build something that would have an effect on abundance and productivity of natural spawning steelhead in the Calawah, and there was evidence that this would occur, would they be willing to say there was no significance to that developer's project? Not on your life!

Top
#1020753 - 01/27/20 06:15 PM Re: Calawah captive brood steelhead [Re: bushbear]
Carcassman Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 5925
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
Agreed.

Top
#1020754 - 01/27/20 06:18 PM Re: Calawah captive brood steelhead [Re: Carcassman]
darth baiter Offline
Juvenile at Sea

Registered: 04/04/10
Posts: 104
Loc: United States

Originally Posted By: Carcassman
Sometimes I think the process is designed to shed light on a project while in other cases the process is designed to conceal.

At best, that should be an MDNS as there are effects of the cultured fish on the wild runs and effects of the culture itself on the environment.


Not to mention the fact that the program is ripping wild fish from spawning grounds, then raising progeny in a hatchery and then marking them, enabling their retention in the sport fishery where otherwise the offspring would not.

Top
#1020758 - 01/27/20 07:42 PM Re: Calawah captive brood steelhead [Re: darth baiter]
OncyT Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 02/06/08
Posts: 476
Originally Posted By: darth baiter
Not to mention the fact that the program is ripping wild fish from spawning grounds, then raising progeny in a hatchery and then marking them, enabling their retention in the sport fishery where otherwise the offspring would not.

Depending what the current escapement is, how the broodstock is collected, what the hatchery productivity is, what the productivity of the hatchery progeny are once they return is, what harvest rate is going to be applied, what proportion of the natural population is going to be made up of hatchery returns (and a bunch of other questions), this program may be fine. However, given the paucity of information provided by the WDFW hatchery folks to whatever part of WDFW that wrote this Determination of Nonsignificance, making that determination is pretty much [Bleeeeep!], IMHO (and bleeeeep is not what I wrote).



Edited by OncyT (01/27/20 07:59 PM)

Top
#1020769 - 01/28/20 08:56 AM Re: Calawah captive brood steelhead [Re: Krijack]
DrifterWA Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 04/25/00
Posts: 4702
Loc: East of Aberdeen, West of Mont...
Originally Posted By: Krijack
For those with a better knowledge, could someone try to answer this question. If these fish are being reared and released at river mile one, will most stop in that area when coming back or will they be more likely to spread out and go higher into the system.


Probably stay, for a while, where they were planted then its "onward".
_________________________

"Worse day sport fishing, still better than the best day working"

"I thought growing older would take longer"

Top
#1020770 - 01/28/20 09:11 AM Re: Calawah captive brood steelhead [Re: bushbear]
DrifterWA Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 04/25/00
Posts: 4702
Loc: East of Aberdeen, West of Mont...

There will "probably" never be a legal "catch and kill" wild steelhead in Washington State.

You want to catch and kill a Native steelhead, then I suggest you book a guide trip with a tribal guide, on a river that still has wild steelhead.
_________________________

"Worse day sport fishing, still better than the best day working"

"I thought growing older would take longer"

Top
#1020773 - 01/28/20 10:21 AM Re: Calawah captive brood steelhead [Re: bushbear]
WDFW X 1 = 0 Offline
My Area code makes me cooler than you

Registered: 01/27/15
Posts: 3620
There are zero wild steelhead.

All have been infected by the man virus.

Top
#1020774 - 01/28/20 10:24 AM Re: Calawah captive brood steelhead [Re: bushbear]
RUNnGUN Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 1069
Not sure about this program but the Snider Crk program used to clip a ventral fin to ID it's origin. Also legal to retain such a clip.
_________________________
“Smart people only believe half of what they hear. Smarter people know which half to believe”

Top
#1020777 - 01/28/20 11:36 AM Re: Calawah captive brood steelhead [Re: bushbear]
Todd Offline
Bumpin the 6X9's

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 26401
Loc: Seattle, Washington USA
These fish will be clipped, as well.

I agree that they will probably hang out around the Ponds for a bit, but eventually will go upstream. It's too bad they can't drive them up and release them at the forks, or something.

Fish on...

Todd

Top
#1020781 - 01/28/20 12:41 PM Re: Calawah captive brood steelhead [Re: bushbear]
Carcassman Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 5925
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
I believe that steelhead will behave a lot like coho in that they will attempt to get as far upstream as is possible given streamflows. They may hold around the release site for a while but if prevented from entering (going "upstream") they will likely look elsewhere. This is especially so as the fish reach maturity.

Also, the males will hang around longer, looking for females. The hens will spawn and boogie back to sea. The males will keep looking to spawn.

Top
#1020787 - 01/28/20 02:50 PM Re: Calawah captive brood steelhead [Re: Carcassman]
RUNnGUN Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 1069
Originally Posted By: Carcassman
I believe that steelhead will behave a lot like coho in that they will attempt to get as far upstream as is possible given streamflows. They may hold around the release site for a while but if prevented from entering (going "upstream") they will likely look elsewhere. This is especially so as the fish reach maturity.

Also, the males will hang around longer, looking for females. The hens will spawn and boogie back to sea. The males will keep looking to spawn.


That brings up a question. What percentage of males to females survive to spawn again? In all my years, I have caught a ton of spawners and most if not all were female snakes. I suppose the dark males still milking, could be on their way out, but never seem totally empty.
_________________________
“Smart people only believe half of what they hear. Smarter people know which half to believe”

Top
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >

Search

Site Links
Home
Our Washington Fishing
Our Alaska Fishing
Reports
Rates
Contact Us
About Us
Recipes
Photos / Videos
Visit us on Facebook
Today's Birthdays
No Birthdays
Recent Gallery Pix
Hatchery Releases into the Pacific and Harvest
Gibbs Delta Time Capsule
Who's Online
0 registered (), 115 Guests and 2 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
fishforfun, SeedyPea, Reefskunk, cgreene, Ice Nine
11460 Registered Users
Top Posters
Todd 26401
Dan S. 16350
Sol Duc 16129
elparquito 14019
Salmo g. 12970
eyeFISH 12560
STRIKE ZONE 12107
Dogfish 10979
ParaLeaks 10513
Jerry Garcia 9159
Forum Stats
11460 Members
18 Forums
76069 Topics
848310 Posts

Max Online: 3001 @ 01/28/20 02:48 PM

Join the PP forums.

It's quick, easy, and always free!

Working for the fish and our future fishing opportunities:

The Wild Steelhead Coalition

The Photo & Video Gallery. Nearly 1200 images from our fishing trips! Tips, techniques, live weight calculator & more in the Fishing Resource Center. The time is now to get prime dates for 2018 Olympic Peninsula Winter Steelhead , don't miss out!.

| HOME | ALASKA FISHING | WASHINGTON FISHING | RIVER REPORTS | FORUMS | FISHING RESOURCE CENTER | CHARTER RATES | CONTACT US | WHAT ABOUT BOB? | PHOTO & VIDEO GALLERY | LEARN ABOUT THE FISH | RECIPES | SITE HELP & FAQ |