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#1022337 - 02/14/20 05:36 PM WA and OR agree 5% more impact for cr tangle nets
slabhunter Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 01/17/04
Posts: 3649
Loc: Sheltona Beach
So the Directors met and talked about salmon management. 75%-25% is what I see.

What about steelhead? They are a game fish caught in the nets too!

https://www.dfw.state.or.us/news/2020/02_feb/021420.asp
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#1022340 - 02/14/20 05:56 PM Re: WA and OR agree 5% more impact for S tangle nets [Re: slabhunter]
eyeFISH Offline
Ornamental Rice Bowl

Registered: 11/24/03
Posts: 12507
Bass turds.... DIRTY bass turds!
_________________________
"Let every angler who loves to fish think what it would mean to him to find the fish were gone." (Zane Grey)

"If you don't kill them, they will spawn." (Carcassman)


The Keen Eye MD
Long Live the Kings!

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#1022349 - 02/14/20 06:53 PM Re: WA and OR agree 5% more impact for S tangle nets [Re: eyeFISH]
slabhunter Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 01/17/04
Posts: 3649
Loc: Sheltona Beach
I emailed my reps and senator . I might call the hotline 1.800. 562.6000 to further show this is my belief of this injustice.
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#1022351 - 02/14/20 07:16 PM Re: WA and OR agree 5% more impact for S tangle nets [Re: slabhunter]
large edward Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 12/17/10
Posts: 250
Loc: Brier, WA
Can someone help me understand this sentence in the press release I find particularly troublesome:

"The allocations in Columbia River fisheries refer to the proportion of impacts to wild fish allowed under Endangered Species Act guidelines, not the proportion of overall catch."

My interpretation is the the sporties will be f***ked once again. Am I close to home in deciphering this fuzzy statement?

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#1022352 - 02/14/20 07:45 PM Re: WA and OR agree 5% more impact for S tangle nets [Re: slabhunter]
eyeFISH Offline
Ornamental Rice Bowl

Registered: 11/24/03
Posts: 12507
Recs leverage our impact share into a MUCH bigger retained catch than the mainstem gillnets can because of our lower release mortality rate.
_________________________
"Let every angler who loves to fish think what it would mean to him to find the fish were gone." (Zane Grey)

"If you don't kill them, they will spawn." (Carcassman)


The Keen Eye MD
Long Live the Kings!

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#1022353 - 02/14/20 08:10 PM Re: WA and OR agree 5% more impact for S tangle nets [Re: eyeFISH]
slabhunter Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 01/17/04
Posts: 3649
Loc: Sheltona Beach
One more thing. The Select areas catch more upriver fish if there is high water.
_________________________
When we are forgotten, we cease to exist .
Share your outdoor skills.

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#1022379 - 02/16/20 01:32 AM Re: WA and OR agree 5% more impact for S tangle nets [Re: slabhunter]
eyeFISH Offline
Ornamental Rice Bowl

Registered: 11/24/03
Posts: 12507
Bonafide PROOF that Susewind can't be trusted to do right by recs.
_________________________
"Let every angler who loves to fish think what it would mean to him to find the fish were gone." (Zane Grey)

"If you don't kill them, they will spawn." (Carcassman)


The Keen Eye MD
Long Live the Kings!

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#1022382 - 02/16/20 10:13 AM Re: WA and OR agree 5% more impact for S tangle nets [Re: eyeFISH]
Bay wolf Offline
Spawner

Registered: 10/26/12
Posts: 988
Loc: Graham, WA
Originally Posted By: eyeFISH
Bonafide PROOF that Susewind can't be trusted to do right by recs.


Doesn't the BUCK STOP with the Commission? After all, according to the Commissions mandate:

Fish and Wildlife Commission

"The Washington Fish and Wildlife Commission is the supervising authority for the state's Department of Fish and Wildlife. It consists of nine governor-appointed members serving six-year terms, holding meetings and hearings around the state and offering opportunities for the public to weigh in on fish and wildlife issues."


Isn't time we start holding the Commission accountable for these screw up, and stop giving them a pass. The Commission was formed to be OUR REPRESENTATIVES!

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#1022385 - 02/16/20 12:58 PM Re: WA and OR agree 5% more impact for S tangle nets [Re: slabhunter]
eyeFISH Offline
Ornamental Rice Bowl

Registered: 11/24/03
Posts: 12507
But they delegated their authority on this matter to the director.
_________________________
"Let every angler who loves to fish think what it would mean to him to find the fish were gone." (Zane Grey)

"If you don't kill them, they will spawn." (Carcassman)


The Keen Eye MD
Long Live the Kings!

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#1022386 - 02/16/20 01:14 PM Re: WA and OR agree 5% more impact for S tangle nets [Re: eyeFISH]
Larry B Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 2793
Loc: University Place and Whidbey I...
Originally Posted By: eyeFISH
But they delegated their authority on this matter to the director.


Doesn't leave them with clean hands!
_________________________
Remember to immediately record your catch or you may become the catch!

It's the person who has done nothing who is sure nothing can be done. (Ewing)

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#1022388 - 02/16/20 01:53 PM Re: WA and OR agree 5% more impact for S tangle nets [Re: slabhunter]
Carcassman Online   content
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 5732
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
If the delegated their authority, and don't like the results, fire the Director. If they keep him, they are approving of the job he's doing. Same as us re-electing the Clowns.

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#1022389 - 02/16/20 02:52 PM Re: WA and OR agree 5% more impact for S tangle nets [Re: slabhunter]
Great Bender Offline
Juvenile at Sea

Registered: 01/03/17
Posts: 147
Loc: Hood Canal
It was one year ago now when a group of "focused and motivated" stakeholders appeared at a Senate hearing to promote their POV re: commercial gill netting on the Columbia, Puget Sound and other viable locations. They braved a snow storm to exercise their legal right to testify, and promote retention of commercial netting in those locations. Their impact was most effective.

The Commissioners had previously put forth their respective position(s), w/two key members abstaining, and failing to go either way regarding support or approval.

In short, the Senate Bill was watered down and amended to an end product that hardly resembled the original content.

We now deal with a Commission composed of four members with a direct or indirect history and/or working relationship with the Tribal and NT commercial netting industry, and one additional member who can best be described as a bobble head. The Commission itself has stood down, and has now formally assumed the Crown of Dysfunction.

The critical numbers continue to decline, and until Rec stakeholders can rightfully and directly participate (or at least be publicly included) in the NOF decision making process...nothing can possibly change.

The Same Old Story is getting really old...pool the collective collaboration of ALL the parties involved--or say good bye to the fish.

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#1022390 - 02/16/20 03:05 PM Re: WA and OR agree 5% more impact for S tangle nets [Re: slabhunter]
Bay wolf Offline
Spawner

Registered: 10/26/12
Posts: 988
Loc: Graham, WA
Delegating the authority to conduct negotiations DOES NOT remove the responsibility and accountability for those decisions.

This IS THE PROBLEM with the Commission. They let the Director run rabid, and do nothing. They are not the Recreational Anglers representatives in truth. They are nothing but pawns who are played by the whims of those that harvest salmon for profit.

So, let me ask you all these questions.

1. How many of you actually know how many people applied for the last Commission positions?

2. How many of you actually saw the names of everyone who applied, saw their backgrounds and qualifications?

3. Who amongst us attended an open meeting where the candidates were introduced and where we got to ask them questions?

4. How many of you even know how the selection process works, that results in the governor appointing someone who is our representative?

My bet that not any of us...and that is how the game is played.

The Commission doesn't represent us. They represent the groups that were responsible for their appointment.

There are three Commissioners who's terms are set to expire this year.
Anyone want to take a guess on how much WE will be invited in to participate in picking the new Commissioner's?

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#1022391 - 02/16/20 04:02 PM Re: WA and OR agree 5% more impact for S tangle nets [Re: slabhunter]
Great Bender Offline
Juvenile at Sea

Registered: 01/03/17
Posts: 147
Loc: Hood Canal
It would be fitting and appropriate to add...

5. The legal time limit to appoint the last Commissioner, 90 days, was exceeded by far. As a result, would that not make both his appointment and actual placement on the Commission illegal?

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#1022392 - 02/16/20 04:30 PM Re: WA and OR agree 5% more impact for S tangle nets [Re: slabhunter]
bushbear Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 08/26/02
Posts: 4650
Loc: Sequim
In a limited defense of the Commission and Director - they have to make decisions based on what information they get from staff

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#1022394 - 02/16/20 05:16 PM Re: WA and OR agree 5% more impact for S tangle nets [Re: slabhunter]
Carcassman Online   content
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 5732
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
I must disagree, at least somewhat. First, which staff? The science-based or political appointees? I know, and this was back in WDF, that staff made one set of recommendations and the politicians another (or the Tribes). And guess which one was chosen?

Decisions are, for better or worse, made on a variety of inputs that include biology, law, politics. It is ludicrous to think that the agency will follow the science without consideration of which way the political wind is blowing. And there are a lot of staff, at least in the past, who found the foregoing "amazing". They could not believe that political considerations were even in the discussion.

The problem is that the rec side is fairly dysfunctional. At best, they look a whole lot like the Democratic Presidential Circular Firing Squad Exercise. Recs would rather fight each other than unite; we would rather complain than participate. Look at, even from here, who participates actively in the processes? A few, and most have been in the fight for decades.

The commercials and the Tribes are in this for the long game. Like Grant vs. Lee; attrition will win out.

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#1022397 - 02/16/20 07:21 PM Re: WA and OR agree 5% more impact for S tangle nets [Re: slabhunter]
bushbear Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 08/26/02
Posts: 4650
Loc: Sequim
Bay Wolf and Great Bender posed some questions that, from my perspective as a recent applicant for a Commission seat, need to be answered. If a vacancy occurs, the seat is supposed to be filled within 60 days.

1. I heard 13 to 14 names might have been on the list. I don’t know when they applied. I was told that some names are on pretty much a “standing list” for appointments to Commissions and Boards.

2. Applications were going to close around February 15 per Keith Swenson, Director of the Governor's Office of Boards and Commissions, and a decision was expected to be made "soon".

3. I only saw one application....mine, submitted on February 14 for the "at-large" position.

4. I had follow-up contacts with Mr. Swenson on March 21 and 29 when I was advised that no decisions would be made until after the legislative session was over. The 2019 Legislative session ended April 28. A subsequent contact with Mr. Swenson, on April 2, set up a meeting on April 11 to discuss my application.

5. On April 11, I had a meeting lasting a little over an hour Mr. Swenson at the Batdorf & Bronson Coffee Roasters in Olympia.

6. Subsequent email contacts, asking if decision had been made, with Mr. Swenson were done on May 10, June 7, June 21, July 19, and July 24.

7. On July 24, the Governor's office announced that Molly Linville and Jim Anderson had been selected as the new Commissioners. I never received a contact from Mr. Swenson as to the decision having been made.

If you want to get a sense of the process, here is a link to the Governor’s Boards and Commissions website:

https://www.governor.wa.gov/boards-commissions

I would encourage folks to read through RCW 77 – the Fish and Wildlife statutes.

https://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=77

and, in particular, as to the statutes relating to Commission activities, look at:

https://app.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=77.04

and

https://app.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=77.12

The operative word in many of the statutory sections is "...shall..." not "...may...". They have the authority and need to, in my opinion, set down some operational mandates for the Director and for him to pass along to staff as required objectives to be done.

I've been working with the Commission protocols for 50 years. I've seen it work in other states and I've seen some promise in this Commission off and on over the past 20 years.

It is a political process, no doubt about it. Personally, I'd like to see some changes in the statutes as they relate to the Commission selection process. One major change is found in the Colorado statutes (CRS 33-9-101(c)) which reads:

" (c) Of the voting members appointed to the commission, there shall not be a difference of more than one person between those members affiliated with any major political party."

That would/could help remove some of the political pressure. Commissioners should be apolitical. Their first priority should be to the resource. They should not have to be concerned about potential removal should they buck the establishment on an issue.

There are four Commissioners whose terms are up this year. Carpenter on October 31, and Kehoe, Smith, and Graybill on December 31.

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#1022398 - 02/16/20 07:40 PM Re: WA and OR agree 5% more impact for S tangle nets [Re: slabhunter]
bushbear Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 08/26/02
Posts: 4650
Loc: Sequim
Carcassman

I've sat in on a number of WDFW Commission meetings over the past 20 years. In my other life, another 30 years of attending Commission meetings. Generally speaking, most of the decisions are probably the right ones.

I have been a member of three different advisory groups and one legislatively mandated oversight committee. Cumulatively, 18 years of membership. I try to attend public meetings as time permits outside of advisory group meetings.

I have seen presentations made to the groups and the Commission that would appear to reflect staff biases that would then direct decision making toward a specific objective and not necessarily one that is good for the resource or for a user group.

Decision making by the Director and/or the Commission are only as good as the information they get coming up through staff and sometimes the information is skewed.

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#1022400 - 02/16/20 08:27 PM Re: WA and OR agree 5% more impact for S tangle nets [Re: slabhunter]
Great Bender Offline
Juvenile at Sea

Registered: 01/03/17
Posts: 147
Loc: Hood Canal
Thank you, bushbear, for coming forward with the details and particulars related to your application and pursuit of a position on the Commission.

A good many of the regulars on this blog remain convinced that your appointment to the Commission would have provided much needed perspective necessary for truly moving torward conservation of our fisheries resource.

An old bromide puts forth that "If you don't know where you're going, any road will take you there..." The political priorities woven through the Commission, AG's Office, WDFW Director and Governor allow for no other path than that followed by those above.

C-man said it best just a few entries above...




Edited by Great Bender (02/16/20 08:28 PM)
Edit Reason: spelling

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#1022401 - 02/16/20 09:37 PM Re: WA and OR agree 5% more impact for S tangle nets [Re: slabhunter]
Carcassman Online   content
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 5732
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
As I said, Bushbear, which staff. I Have seen the science skewed so that a preconceived position could be supported. Just because it is "staff" does not mean you aren't getting a desired policy outcome, science be damned.

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