#1046785 - 01/30/21 06:46 PM
Re: Point No Point. Who cares?
[Re: ned]
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River Nutrients
Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7428
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
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Nope. Not surprised at all. I believe they have decided just unwilling to say so.
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#1046788 - 01/30/21 10:10 PM
Re: Point No Point. Who cares?
[Re: eyeFISH]
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River Nutrients
Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 3020
Loc: University Place and Whidbey I...
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B-E-E-P !
And another deadline goes by... anyone surprised? To be fair Col. Bullock has until mid-night tomorrow. Sure, as if that is going to happen. It is almost like they don't even think about this unless someone is communicating up their chain of command. As in, hello General - there is a problem in your Seattle office. Well, Monday will be the 1st of February and absent some unanticipated miracle they will have officially missed their own target without explanation and/or establishing a new target. Larry B.
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Remember to immediately record your catch or you may become the catch!
It's the person who has done nothing who is sure nothing can be done. (Ewing)
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#1046801 - 01/31/21 12:19 PM
Re: Point No Point. Who cares?
[Re: ned]
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River Nutrients
Registered: 08/26/02
Posts: 4709
Loc: Sequim
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....and then the communication , with attached copies, need to start up the chain and also include the Federal elected officials with a request to them for a Congressional inquiry from their office as to why it's taking so long.....
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#1047629 - 02/13/21 03:06 PM
Re: Point No Point. Who cares?
[Re: ned]
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River Nutrients
Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7428
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
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Been awful quiet. Anybody ask the Corpse what's happening?
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#1047630 - 02/13/21 04:00 PM
Re: Point No Point. Who cares?
[Re: Carcassman]
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River Nutrients
Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 3020
Loc: University Place and Whidbey I...
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Reportedly moving closer to a decision. All I know.
_________________________
Remember to immediately record your catch or you may become the catch!
It's the person who has done nothing who is sure nothing can be done. (Ewing)
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#1048286 - 03/01/21 01:57 PM
Re: Point No Point. Who cares?
[Re: ned]
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King of the Beach
Registered: 12/11/02
Posts: 5206
Loc: Carkeek Park
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March 1st.
Any word?
SF
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Founding Member - 2023 Pink Plague Opposition Party
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#1048289 - 03/01/21 03:04 PM
Re: Point No Point. Who cares?
[Re: ned]
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River Nutrients
Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7428
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
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If I step out my back door I am one step closer to China. But I'm not getting there anytime soon.
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#1048292 - 03/01/21 03:37 PM
Re: Point No Point. Who cares?
[Re: ned]
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King of the Beach
Registered: 12/11/02
Posts: 5206
Loc: Carkeek Park
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Yeah, no need to run when they’ve been crawling since 1996 regarding that property....
SF
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#1048304 - 03/01/21 09:36 PM
Re: Point No Point. Who cares?
[Re: ned]
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River Nutrients
Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 3020
Loc: University Place and Whidbey I...
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You all do remember the movie Groundhog Day, right?
_________________________
Remember to immediately record your catch or you may become the catch!
It's the person who has done nothing who is sure nothing can be done. (Ewing)
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#1054768 - 07/30/21 09:07 AM
Re: Point No Point. Who cares?
[Re: ned]
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Dick Nipples
Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 28170
Loc: Seattle, Washington USA
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The ACOE has formally denied WDFW's permit application to build the ramp, citing the Suquamish Tribe's treaty fishing rights as the determining factor.  Fish on... Todd
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#1054769 - 07/30/21 09:28 AM
Re: Point No Point. Who cares?
[Re: ned]
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Spawner
Registered: 06/09/07
Posts: 666
Loc: MA 5, 9, 10
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Denied.
Even better, the last tribal objection claimed they historically fished in the EXACT FOOTPRINT where the ramp would lay, backed by signed affidavits from tribal members claiming this. The WDFW responded with photos of a dock/ramp/rail launch that was just recently removed...which had been there for decades. So how is it that they crabbed there, in ,12' of water.
The way the Corps wrote the denial means this precedent (reasoning behind denial) can apply to ANY ramp that is in a U&A. Well, every foot of salt water in the state is in a U&A, so yes, that means the ramp nearest you. ALL RAMPS, public or private, need this same permit for any repair, new build, replacement, or maintenance. When the Corps receives the permit application, they are required to notify the local tribe for approval. With any objection, that ramp is shut down. My senator and a recent discussion with the Attorney General representing this case both agree.
Further, if the PNP ramp violates Treaty rights, then don't all ramps? It seems the treaty share needs no boats on the water to be able to fish, instead of having the ability to fish "in common" on grounds with everybody else.
PNP is only the first case where Boldt closed a state park and ramp. It isn't the last. Coming soon to a boat launch near you...
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#1054770 - 07/30/21 09:45 AM
Re: Point No Point. Who cares?
[Re: ned]
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King of the Beach
Registered: 12/11/02
Posts: 5206
Loc: Carkeek Park
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I guess we’ll have to settle for this at PNP. Wouldn’t removing the drain pipe in the south side infringe on someone’s U & A fishing rights? I guess not if there are the right partners....or maybe just different partners? SF https://www.kitsapsun.com/story/news/202...BdGYhENXx1A8jpI
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#1054774 - 07/30/21 10:07 AM
Re: Point No Point. Who cares?
[Re: ned]
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King of the Beach
Registered: 12/11/02
Posts: 5206
Loc: Carkeek Park
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"...Settle for this at Point No Point?"
You mean settle for this everywhere. This is the start of ramp closures routinely being turned down due to denied permits. Why do you think a tribe with a ramp in it's U&A waould approve a permit. What's in it for them?
This effectively makes the Corps relinquish its federal authority on saltwater permitting, and transfers it to the Treaty share. Now a separate sovereign government will make the decisions on our rights to access federal surface waters. Don’t take my post too seriously as I’m pissed also. My point is there is going to need to be a lot of work done, some on the beach to accomplish that restoration project. Wouldn’t that also possibly do harm to a U & A fishing area? Yet not a peep on that from the group opposing the ramp. Is that because there is another tribe supporting it? SF
Edited by stonefish (07/30/21 10:25 AM)
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#1054793 - 07/30/21 12:45 PM
Re: Point No Point. Who cares?
[Re: ned]
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The Tide changed
Registered: 08/31/00
Posts: 7232
Loc: Everett
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Arguably, the only time pnp is fished is during summer Chinook openers anymore, which is two to three weeks or less a year. It's not a go-to winter blackmouth destination. So that two or three weeks a year obstructs the Suquamish so much that we can't build and use a ramp, yet there are already 200 boats out front forced to drive and waste gas from other far away locations? Or is it because sport fishermen would have better access to crabbing in that location, hence the denial?
What specific forms of obstruction are we talking about here? and when, and how? I'll have to read the decision when I have time. Im going fishing.
either way....
Nice logic Leonard. Not.
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#1054815 - 07/30/21 07:20 PM
Re: Point No Point. Who cares?
[Re: ned]
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Three Time Spawner
Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 1844
Loc: Wenatchee, WA
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More division, neato....I really wonder what it's going to be like in 100 years? My kid started golfing a couple of weeks ago with his buddies (I don't). Secretly I'm happy for him. Of course, he's still into killing critters, but when I'm dead he can sell all the guns and the boat and he'll have 150-200k to go blow on other cool hobbies where he doesn't have to "fight" with other American stakeholders to get an opportunity to utilize those resources.
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#1054821 - 07/31/21 07:39 AM
Re: Point No Point. Who cares?
[Re: ned]
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Returning Adult
Registered: 08/07/09
Posts: 485
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Go luck with Kitsap County wanting to build a fishing pier at Norwegian point. Hopefully that project is DOA,
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#1054836 - 07/31/21 03:24 PM
Re: Point No Point. Who cares?
[Re: ned]
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Three Time Spawner
Registered: 06/03/06
Posts: 1533
Loc: Tacoma
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Dash point pier just got shut down for structural damage. Extremely popular, especially for pinks. Several years ago I went down and watched well over 25 kings hooked on a tide. Several doubles and I believe a triple. I lost one on a poor netting job and got another about 20 minutes later. One guy was using braid and lost 4 or 5 at the dock. First time I went down in the early eighties while I wasin college. It was on the old dock and no one knew or cared to hook pinks. I stood alone and hooked 10 to 15. I had three in the bag and was going to try for a fourth when the old guys on the dock started to harass me about how only kings counted. Literally let the buzz bomb drop down on that cast and pulled in a 8-10 lb cookie cutter king. Only fish that were caught all day. I came back a day or too later and everyone on the dock had a pink buzz bomb. The guy who was teasing me the hardest said he put in about 14 hours the other day and didn't get a sniff. He had a handful of bombs and was handing them out to all the other old guys.
In any case, it will be sad to see it go away, even if it is a zoo at times. I have a feeling it will now be very hard to repair or rebuild with this latest decision. Redondo repairs are going on 2 years now. Since construction appears to be under way, I guess they might have permits on that one.
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#1054841 - 07/31/21 06:15 PM
Re: Point No Point. Who cares?
[Re: Krijack]
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River Nutrients
Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 3020
Loc: University Place and Whidbey I...
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Dash point pier just got shut down for structural damage. Extremely popular, especially for pinks. Several years ago I went down and watched well over 25 kings hooked on a tide. Several doubles and I believe a triple. I lost one on a poor netting job and got another about 20 minutes later. One guy was using braid and lost 4 or 5 at the dock. First time I went down in the early eighties while I wasin college. It was on the old dock and no one knew or cared to hook pinks. I stood alone and hooked 10 to 15. I had three in the bag and was going to try for a fourth when the old guys on the dock started to harass me about how only kings counted. Literally let the buzz bomb drop down on that cast and pulled in a 8-10 lb cookie cutter king. Only fish that were caught all day. I came back a day or too later and everyone on the dock had a pink buzz bomb. The guy who was teasing me the hardest said he put in about 14 hours the other day and didn't get a sniff. He had a handful of bombs and was handing them out to all the other old guys.
In any case, it will be sad to see it go away, even if it is a zoo at times. I have a feeling it will now be very hard to repair or rebuild with this latest decision. Redondo repairs are going on 2 years now. Since construction appears to be under way, I guess they might have permits on that one. Just one more access closed - hopefully to reopen but not in time for this fall's recreational fisheries. And if it remains closed until serious repairs consider the possibility that the requirement for a USCOE permit is now problematic. As to Col. Bullock's (he signed it but no doubt written by the attorneys) decision no where is there a standard laid out for what constitutes de minimus let alone referring to de minimus as a standard. Yet de minimus is the language in their own policy statements. Now is the time for WA State to take on the Corps for as Ned as mentioned it sets a standard where any proposed project can and will be objected to by one or more tribes with U&A. The question I have is whether it will get to SCOTUS before I beat it to the history books.
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Remember to immediately record your catch or you may become the catch!
It's the person who has done nothing who is sure nothing can be done. (Ewing)
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