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#1048363 - 03/03/21 05:30 PM Re: Wild vs. hatchery [Re: Salman]
The Moderator Offline
The Chosen One

Registered: 02/09/00
Posts: 14486
Loc: Tuleville
We all should be, honestly.
_________________________
Tule King Paker

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#1048365 - 03/03/21 05:41 PM Re: Wild vs. hatchery [Re: Salman]
Carcassman Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7428
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
Parker is not upset, he just recognizes what's going on.

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#1048371 - 03/03/21 07:54 PM Re: Wild vs. hatchery [Re: Salman]
WDFW X 1 = 0 Offline
My Area code makes me cooler than you

Registered: 01/27/15
Posts: 4549
WDFW will fix this mess.

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#1048374 - 03/03/21 09:45 PM Re: Wild vs. hatchery [Re: WDFW X 1 = 0]
Carcassman Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7428
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
I wanna have what he's drinking.

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#1048380 - 03/04/21 09:56 AM Re: Wild vs. hatchery [Re: Carcassman]
RUNnGUN Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 1383
Originally Posted By: Carcassman

Which suggests to me that hatchery steelhead should be confined to a few "destroyed/compromised" systems like Cowlitz and Green with program release minimums of 250K, maybe go for 500K.

YES THIS! Win Win! Save $$$ and still have place to go catch. What would it take to make this happen?
_________________________
"Life moves pretty fast. If you don't stop and look around once in a while, you could miss it.” – Ferris Bueller.
Don't let the old man in!

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#1048384 - 03/04/21 10:20 AM Re: Wild vs. hatchery [Re: RUNnGUN]
Rivrguy Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 4404
Loc: Somewhere on the planet,I hope

an act of god
_________________________
Dazed and confused.............the fog is closing in

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#1048392 - 03/04/21 11:59 AM Re: Wild vs. hatchery [Re: Salman]
Carcassman Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7428
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
An act of the God Squad

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#1048405 - 03/04/21 01:37 PM Re: Wild vs. hatchery [Re: Salman]
The Moderator Offline
The Chosen One

Registered: 02/09/00
Posts: 14486
Loc: Tuleville

Anyone know what is up with this - beside the fact that this was a poorly written article at best?

Honestly, I'd be embarrassed if I was the author of this article.

https://komonews.com/news/local/snohomish-county-hatchery-to-rely-on-native-steelhead-trout
_________________________
Tule King Paker

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#1048407 - 03/04/21 01:43 PM Re: Wild vs. hatchery [Re: Salman]
wsu Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 06/23/04
Posts: 422

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#1048412 - 03/04/21 02:32 PM Re: Wild vs. hatchery [Re: The Moderator]
Todd Offline
Dick Nipples

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 28170
Loc: Seattle, Washington USA
Originally Posted By: elparquito

Anyone know what is up with this - beside the fact that this was a poorly written article at best?

Honestly, I'd be embarrassed if I was the author of this article.

https://komonews.com/news/local/snohomish-county-hatchery-to-rely-on-native-steelhead-trout


I think that's a really inartful way of saying that they will no longer be using Skamania summer runs in the Skykomish hatchery program, and instead will use locally adapted broodstock fish for the program.

Nevermind that those "wild" fish are likely the progeny of Skamania hatchery fish that were passed above the falls for years lol.

Fish on...

Todd
_________________________


Team Flying Super Ditch Pickle


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#1048459 - 03/05/21 07:42 AM Re: Wild vs. hatchery [Re: Salman]
Carcassman Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7428
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
Reality runs smack-dab into a data-poor situation. Remember that ALL the anadromous fish upstream of Sunset Falls are invasive exotics.

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#1048464 - 03/05/21 08:58 AM Re: Wild vs. hatchery [Re: Salman]
skyrise Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 03/16/00
Posts: 328
Loc: snohomish, wa
Glad WDFW is trying to keep a fishery open. So then were is the absolutely pure stock of Steelhead anywhere on the planet ? Since fish from one stream had to “stray” to a barren stream to create a new run in that stream. Why no Hysterical rants when WDFW starts a new run of salmon in river x,y or z ?
_________________________
Where is the wise man? Where is the scholar? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world?

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#1048467 - 03/05/21 09:21 AM Re: Wild vs. hatchery [Re: Salman]
WDFW X 1 = 0 Offline
My Area code makes me cooler than you

Registered: 01/27/15
Posts: 4549
All Steelhead are hatchery brats now.

Pretend if you must.

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#1048471 - 03/05/21 09:54 AM Re: Wild vs. hatchery [Re: The Moderator]
Salmo g. Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 13523
Originally Posted By: elparquito

Anyone know what is up with this - beside the fact that this was a poorly written article at best?

Honestly, I'd be embarrassed if I was the author of this article.

https://komonews.com/news/local/snohomish-county-hatchery-to-rely-on-native-steelhead-trout


Good catch Parker. That is definitely high on the list of poorly written articles ever.

In order to keep peace with the Wild Salmonid Conservancy, who keep suing WDFW, the Department agreed to discontinue using "exotic" Skamania summer steelhead in the Skykomish hatchery steelhead program. So they are using wild summer steelhead captured at Sunset Falls. And yes, those wild steelhead consist of about 20% NF wild strays and 80% naturalized Skamania origin steelhead. But hey, they be wild. And whatever keeps the lawsuits down must be a good thing from the WDFW point of view.

It's going to take a while to build this hatchery program up to size because the numbers of returning steelhead (hatchery and wild) is much lower these days.

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#1048477 - 03/05/21 11:11 AM Re: Wild vs. hatchery [Re: Salmo g.]
RUNnGUN Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 1383
Originally Posted By: Salmo g.
Originally Posted By: elparquito

Anyone know what is up with this - beside the fact that this was a poorly written article at best?

Honestly, I'd be embarrassed if I was the author of this article.

https://komonews.com/news/local/snohomish-county-hatchery-to-rely-on-native-steelhead-trout


Good catch Parker. That is definitely high on the list of poorly written articles ever.

In order to keep peace with the Wild Salmonid Conservancy, who keep suing WDFW, the Department agreed to discontinue using "exotic" Skamania summer steelhead in the Skykomish hatchery steelhead program. So they are using wild summer steelhead captured at Sunset Falls. And yes, those wild steelhead consist of about 20% NF wild strays and 80% naturalized Skamania origin steelhead. But hey, they be wild.


That being said, will the return timing still be a Skamainia early component? IMO when they made this change on the Kalama it fd up the return timing. The summers now trickle in after the 4th of July into September when water levels get tough. They used to peak in June during decent flows. Love those spankin chrome June summers the most!
_________________________
"Life moves pretty fast. If you don't stop and look around once in a while, you could miss it.” – Ferris Bueller.
Don't let the old man in!

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#1048606 - 03/05/21 05:46 PM Re: Wild vs. hatchery [Re: The Moderator]
riverdick Offline
Juvenile at Sea

Registered: 05/10/09
Posts: 137
Loc: around the next bend
Originally Posted By: elparquito

Anyone know what is up with this - beside the fact that this was a poorly written article at best?

Honestly, I'd be embarrassed if I was the author of this article.

https://komonews.com/news/local/snohomish-county-hatchery-to-rely-on-native-steelhead-trout


Its quite obvious that the author has no shame. Probably doesn't know better but the editor should be remorseful!

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#1048621 - 03/06/21 09:21 AM Re: Wild vs. hatchery [Re: RUNnGUN]
Salmo g. Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 13523
Originally Posted By: RUNnGUN
That being said, will the return timing still be a Skamainia early component? IMO when they made this change on the Kalama it fd up the return timing. The summers now trickle in after the 4th of July into September when water levels get tough. They used to peak in June during decent flows. Love those spankin chrome June summers the most!


If you're referring to the time period late 70s, early 80s, when the Dep't. selected for large hatchery summer runs, and the return rates were high and resulted in fishable numbers of fish from late May onward, then no. The natural peak return is July, following spring runoff which peaks in May and June.

The data I had going back to the beginnings of the program in the 60s showed Skamania summer runs always peaking in July. The reason for the early fish was because the tails of the bell curve for timing, with the much larger run sizes, indicated substantial numbers of fish both early and late.

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#1048626 - 03/06/21 02:52 PM Re: Wild vs. hatchery [Re: Salman]
Salman Offline
Spawner

Registered: 03/07/12
Posts: 806
With how bad runs are nowadays I think it would be best to utilize hatcheries in streams that once had a population of summer/winter fish or both but now do not and use brood stock to recover those runs while still allowing for sport fisheries. If successful allow sport fisherman to retain wild fish from said system. Why or why not would this work? While simultaneously closing down systems that have native runs which can be utilized to produce native fish on their own. It seems like a win win to me and also if sea lions/seals could be kept in check for these particular river systems because they weren’t there before the hatchery fish.
_________________________
Why build in the flood plain?

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#1048628 - 03/06/21 04:25 PM Re: Wild vs. hatchery [Re: Salman]
Carcassman Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7428
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
Name one system where a large hatchery program for steelhead operates concurrently with a strong, self-sustaining, "harvest available", genetically intact wild run. It is unlikely that this has ever occurred. We can have one or the other on a given watershed, but not both.

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#1048630 - 03/06/21 06:50 PM Re: Wild vs. hatchery [Re: Carcassman]
Salman Offline
Spawner

Registered: 03/07/12
Posts: 806
My point! Most of these rivers with hatcheries also support wild runs. Why not build hatcheries where wild fish are non existent or going extinct and nobody has fished them have a chance at recovery while providing sportfishing opportunities?
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Why build in the flood plain?

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