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#1059837 - 06/06/22 06:57 PM Whatís up Wdfw????? Area 11 Closed!!!!!!
GoPro Hero Offline
Parr

Registered: 06/11/21
Posts: 59
Why the state close down area 11? Theres so many fish out there right now. They claim we caught the quota on the nates? Thats a bunch of crap!!!! I fished out at the claybanks all three days and didnít see any nates getting caught. All hatchery!!!! Whats this all about???
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#1059838 - 06/06/22 07:52 PM Re: Whatís up Wdfw????? Area 11 Closed!!!!!! [Re: GoPro Hero]
seabeckraised Offline
Juvenile at Sea

Registered: 05/12/21
Posts: 120
Loc: Mason County
Youíre one of those special people that doesnít think before they type, arenít you? What would be a preferential way to run this fishery if it was up to you?

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#1059839 - 06/06/22 09:57 PM Re: Whatís up Wdfw????? Area 11 Closed!!!!!! [Re: GoPro Hero]
Streamer Offline
No Stars for You!

Registered: 11/08/06
Posts: 2233
Loc: T-Town
GoPro Hero might possibly be a troll, but he does bring a legitimate point to the conversation regarding wild encounters. It gives credence to the idea to push recreational fishermen off the water as quickly as possible.

For the month of June, there is a hatchery chinook quota of 580 fish. In the first three days of the fishery, there was a total of 450 fish caught representing 78% of the quota. There is an unmarked (wild) encounter quota of 432 fish with 512 fish caught. This is 118% of the quota and the reason that was used to justify the closure of the fishery.

With that said, the data suggests there was more wilds caught than hatchery fish and by a wide margin. Historically, wild fish encounters have been a fraction of the total catch both from test fisheries and by data collected from fish checkers. While it is possible that anglers underreport their wild encounters to the checkers, the accuracy is often corroborated through the test fisheries.

After being on the water for the first two days of the season, I observed lots of fish being caught and spoke to lots of anglers. I did not see many fish that were released and I did not hear of many wild fish that were caught. I spoke with the fish checker who stated only a handful of wild fish were caught and almost all of the fish were hatchery. There is no way the data the state is reporting can be accurate.

My theory? This was another push from the Puyallup tribe to get anglers off the water. I donít think anyone thought fishing would be as good as it was, and once the tribe caught wind of it, they did what they could to get the fishery shut down. It is easier for people to gather raw data from fish checkers on total fish brought in and do their own math than it is to calculate encounters, thus why the justification for the closures was from the wild encounter quota. The state/tribe wanted people off the water as quickly as possible using the strategy most difficult for the opposition to prove, but which clearly raised the most suspicion. Almost everyone is recognizing how completely fabricated the numbers are.

The state conducted a test fishery in area 11 last Saturday and boated over 10 chinook during the test period. They caught all hatchery fish and want to guess how many wild fish they encountered? Zero.

Meanwhile, the tribe conducted their own test fishery. It was reported that they caught mostly wild fish during their fishery. Bizarre coincidence, right?

This fishery was shortened by what realistically could have been another 2-3 days before the hatchery King quota would have been met. The first day the fishing was one of the best bites seen in quite some time, the second day was ďgoodĒ fishing but not nearly as good. The third day was only a handful of fish and considerably slower. At a minimum, it could have gone an extra day to give the weekend guys a crack at some fishing, but instead of keeping the closure to the originally discussed Saturday at midnight, Susewind decided it should be Friday at midnight. Well done, WDFW. You caved to the tribes once again and proved to be one of the least efficient state agencies in Washington.


Streamer
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#1059841 - 06/07/22 06:26 AM Re: Whatís up Wdfw????? Area 11 Closed!!!!!! [Re: GoPro Hero]
Lifter99 Offline
Juvenile at Sea

Registered: 12/01/18
Posts: 196
I have had a boat at Pt. Defiance Boathouse for 48 years and have been an avid fisherman there that whole time. Streamer was spot on with his analysis. There should have been a WDFW observer aboard the tribal test boat and a tribal observer aboard the WDFW test boat to make sure that all parties were reporting accurate data. It is ludicrous that the reported catch had more wild fish encountered that hatchery fish caught. I know a lot of excellent experienced fishermen who fished every day of the the three day fishery in Area 11 . They caught 0-1 wild chinook during that time. Most encountered zero wild fish. WDFW took te tribal test boat data and applied it to all the rec boats out there and that is where the inflated false wild numbers came from. As Streamer said, WDFW backed down to the tribe( Puyallup tribe) again.

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#1059842 - 06/07/22 07:40 AM Re: Whatís up Wdfw????? Area 11 Closed!!!!!! [Re: GoPro Hero]
Flatbrim Pescador Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 07/13/21
Posts: 382
Sorry guys, I told the fish checker I released 417 wilds. I had to hit triple digit numbers like the merg.

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#1059845 - 06/07/22 08:25 AM Re: Whatís up Wdfw????? Area 11 Closed!!!!!! [Re: Lifter99]
Salmo g. Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 13342
Originally Posted By: Lifter99
As Streamer said, WDFW backed down to the tribe( Puyallup tribe) again.


For the record, WDFW doesn't "back down" to the tribe(s). It's unnecessary. The treaty tribes have been managing non-treaty recreational fishing in Puget Sound (and PS tributaries) since what, 2015, or 2016. WDFW has worked its way out of relevance years ago. I don't understand why the Legislature continues to appropriate money to a state agency that is irrelevant. You guys should be grateful that the tribes even let us fish at all. Considering that there are some tribal reps who don't want any non-treaty fishing period, we've been lucky so far.

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#1059847 - 06/07/22 09:54 AM Re: Whatís up Wdfw????? Area 11 Closed!!!!!! [Re: GoPro Hero]
Lifter99 Offline
Juvenile at Sea

Registered: 12/01/18
Posts: 196
That is the point. WDFW is irrelevant . Aren't they supposed to be co-managers? They never got or applied for their own permit. I feel real fortunate.

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#1059851 - 06/07/22 10:30 AM Re: Whatís up Wdfw????? Area 11 Closed!!!!!! [Re: GoPro Hero]
bigb8bigfish Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 03/10/01
Posts: 295
Loc: seattle,wa
me thinks brewer needs to get on the big "C" and go for them nookies. was able to net a fat 15 ner but i had no lucks so far.
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#1059854 - 06/07/22 12:30 PM Re: Whatís up Wdfw????? Area 11 Closed!!!!!! [Re: GoPro Hero]
Krijack Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 06/03/06
Posts: 1446
Loc: Tacoma
It seems to me that if there are more wild salmon than hatchery, either we should not be fishing at all, or there should be no restrictions at all. Where all all these wild chinook heading?

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#1059857 - 06/07/22 02:24 PM Re: Whatís up Wdfw????? Area 11 Closed!!!!!! [Re: GoPro Hero]
Carcassman Online   content
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 6682
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
I agree that if the fishery is selective the vast majority of encounters need to be killable (retained). My preference would be in 75-80% range, or higher.

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#1059859 - 06/07/22 04:03 PM Re: Whatís up Wdfw????? Area 11 Closed!!!!!! [Re: GoPro Hero]
Lifter99 Offline
Juvenile at Sea

Registered: 12/01/18
Posts: 196
Krijack, the point was that there weren't that many wild fish caught. The hatchery fish far outnumbered the wild fish encountered, caught in Area 11. Those wild numbers were paper numbers estimated from the catch of a tribal test boat. Not from the rec catch or the WDFW test boat.

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#1059860 - 06/07/22 04:16 PM Re: Whatís up Wdfw????? Area 11 Closed!!!!!! [Re: GoPro Hero]
cohoangler Offline
Three Time Spawner

Registered: 12/29/99
Posts: 1588
Loc: Vancouver, Washington
I understand the frustration of not being able to fish in a favorite area, such as MA11, which is likely a popular fishery.

However, the Tribes believe that perhaps we should wait until those Chinook return to their natal streams as adults before we start harvesting them. That way, there would be more Chinook for everyone, and, if there is no fishing pressure in the ocean, the adults will be considerably larger since they will be able to achieve their terminal body size upon their return.

So, if we delay the harvest, we get more and bigger adult Chinook salmon in the tributaries.

I have a difficult time disagreeing with that viewpoint, particularly since I don't own an ocean-going fishing boat. Or any boat for that matter......

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#1059862 - 06/07/22 04:56 PM Re: Whatís up Wdfw????? Area 11 Closed!!!!!! [Re: GoPro Hero]
Krijack Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 06/03/06
Posts: 1446
Loc: Tacoma
I understand the numbers are bogus. But lets take the tribe numbers as real. If the prediction was 1 in 10 as wild, and the return is 50-50, then we have a huge increase in wild fish or a huge decrease in hatchery fish. Seeing as the fishery was so successful, there does not seem to be a shortage of hatchery fish. Given this, the state should then threaten to up the predictions of wild fish be by the numbers reported by the tribe, and to expand the season dramatically. Seems reasonable that all expected fish above the expected return should be excess, or we should not be given the impact numbers. So, thousands of fish should be available for harvest right?
It all depends on how you want to spin the numbers. Either there is a shortage or excess, based off the tribal numbers. Taking the approach the state does, and believing the tribes' numbers, then there must be a huge shortage of hatchery fish returning right? So for conservation reasons we should insist the tribe drop the numbers of fish available for harvest and curtail their fishery, right?
You can not have it both ways, ..... Unless of course, you are the tribe.


Edited by Krijack (06/07/22 04:57 PM)

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#1059864 - 06/07/22 08:11 PM Re: Whatís up Wdfw????? Area 11 Closed!!!!!! [Re: GoPro Hero]
Lifter99 Offline
Juvenile at Sea

Registered: 12/01/18
Posts: 196
Krijack. Your last sentence says it all. Curtail their fishery? Really. A lot of people fish only in the salt for various reasons. Physically unable to fish rivers, quality of the fish as table fare etc...
The state cannot expand the fishery with out the tribes agreeing to let them do it. Do you really think that will happen?

All people are asking for is honest numbers. That might be too much to ask for these days.

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#1059878 - 06/08/22 03:05 PM Re: Whatís up Wdfw????? Area 11 Closed!!!!!! [Re: seabeckraised]
GoPro Hero Offline
Parr

Registered: 06/11/21
Posts: 59
Originally Posted By: seabeckraised
Youíre one of those special people that doesnít think before they type, arenít you? What would be a preferential way to run this fishery if it was up to you?


Bro you donít even know me and callin me dumb? It looks like I was right and lots of people agree. Maybe you should just get out and fish more bro! Have a good day and tight lines!
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Go Pro? Letís Goooo!!!
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#1059907 - 06/14/22 12:28 PM Re: Whatís up Wdfw????? Area 11 Closed!!!!!! [Re: GoPro Hero]
Larry B Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 2982
Loc: University Place and Whidbey I...
Having mutual exchange of observers would go a long ways to quelling the distrust evident here and elsewhere.

As to the MA 11 fiasco I believe that both tribal and WDFW productions of White River Spring Chinook are still treated as being in a recovery mode meaning they are unclipped. Thus any adults or shakers are treated as if they are wild. If I am correct in my understanding then maybe a change is past due especially if those fish are being harvested in tribal river fisheries.
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Remember to immediately record your catch or you may become the catch!

It's the person who has done nothing who is sure nothing can be done. (Ewing)

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#1059911 - 06/14/22 02:58 PM Re: Whatís up Wdfw????? Area 11 Closed!!!!!! [Re: Streamer]
GodLovesUgly Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 04/20/09
Posts: 1248
Loc: WaRshington
Originally Posted By: Streamer
the idea to push recreational fishermen off the water as quickly as possible.


Ding. Ding. Ding. We have weener.
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When I grow up I want to be,
One of the harvesters of the sea.
I think before my days are done,
I want to be a fisherman.

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