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#1060801 - 10/27/22 06:33 PM Rivers reopening
old nate Offline
Juvenile at Sea

Registered: 03/23/03
Posts: 144
North coast rivers reopening, Saturday or Monday.

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#1060805 - 10/28/22 07:10 AM Re: Rivers reopening [Re: old nate]
DrifterWA Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 04/25/00
Posts: 5074
Loc: East of Aberdeen, West of Mont...
10/28/2022

Grays Harbor tributary fisheries update
October 27, 2022

Action: Returns Grays Harbor and local independent tributaries to permanent rules as listed in the 2022/23 Washington Sport Fishing Rules pamphlet.

Effective date: Saturday, October 29, 2022

Species affected: All Species.

Locations (includes all tributaries to listed areas):

Black River (Grays Harbor/Thurston Co.)
Chehalis River (Grays Harbor Co.), mainstem from Fuller Bridge upstream, and all forks and tributaries from the mouth upstream.
Cloquallum Creek (Grays Harbor/Mason Co.)
Copalis River (Grays Harbor Co.)
Elk River (Grays Harbor Co.)
Hoquiam River including West and East forks (Grays Harbor Co.)
Humptulips River including all forks (Grays Harbor Co.)
Joe Creek (Grays Harbor Co.)
Johns River (Grays Harbor Co.)
Moclips River (Grays Harbor Co)
Newaukum River, including all forks (Lewis Co.)
Satsop River (Grays Harbor Co.), including all forks.
Skookumchuck River (Lewis/Thurston Co.)
Van Winkle Creek (Grays Harbor Co.)
Wishkah River (Grays Harbor Co.), from the mouth to 200’ below the weir at the Wishkah Rearing Ponds and from 150’ upstream to 150’ downstream of the Wishkah adult attraction channel/outfall structure (within the posted fishing boundary).
Wynoochee River (Grays Harbor Co.)
_________________________
"Worse day sport fishing, still better than the best day working"

"I thought growing older, would take longer"

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#1060808 - 10/28/22 12:11 PM Re: Rivers reopening [Re: old nate]
FleaFlickr02 Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/28/09
Posts: 3314
Noticed the Queets system is still closed indefinitely, due to (paraphrasing) "conservation concerns from recent fisheries activities." Can't tell for sure if the mainstem is still closed, but the Clearwater and Salmon rivers were names specifically.

I'd be curious to know what those "activities" entailed. Has there been poaching? Is it the spectre of snagging being thrown in our faces again?

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#1060809 - 10/28/22 01:23 PM Re: Rivers reopening [Re: FleaFlickr02]
SpoonFed Offline
Three Time Spawner

Registered: 01/29/19
Posts: 1519
Originally Posted By: FleaFlickr02
Noticed the Queets system is still closed indefinitely, due to (paraphrasing) "conservation concerns from recent fisheries activities." Can't tell for sure if the mainstem is still closed, but the Clearwater and Salmon rivers were names specifically.

I'd be curious to know what those "activities" entailed. Has there been poaching? Is it the spectre of snagging being thrown in our faces again?
unfortunately, yes. No snagging in paradise.

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#1060810 - 10/28/22 03:48 PM Re: Rivers reopening [Re: old nate]
FleaFlickr02 Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/28/09
Posts: 3314
We all hate snaggers, but that's such a BS justification. The responsibility to control snagging lies solely with WDFW enforcement. I know they're spread thin, and I sympathize, but enforcement is their job, especially now that they are using illegal tactics as justification for closing fisheries.

I don't fault WDFW for a lot of the cards stacked against them, but they shouldn't pass the buck down to us.

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#1060811 - 10/28/22 04:28 PM Re: Rivers reopening [Re: old nate]
Carcassman Online   content
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7413
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
What are they supposed to do? If there isn't sufficient enforcement why open it for snagfest? If they don't have enough officers they need to publicly explain why they can't be fully staffed.

But just letting the snagging or other illegal activities proceed doesn't seem right.

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#1060812 - 10/28/22 06:24 PM Re: Rivers reopening [Re: old nate]
darth baiter Offline
Juvenile at Sea

Registered: 04/04/10
Posts: 199
Loc: United States
I suspect big game enforcement is a higher priority than babysitting a few sleaze ball snagsters

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#1060813 - 10/28/22 07:43 PM Re: Rivers reopening [Re: old nate]
k&P Offline
Juvenile at Sea

Registered: 09/21/03
Posts: 106
Loc: Forks, WA
Could it be possible that the Quinaults took a lot of Kings on the Queets while netting in low water. Maybe someone should check into that. If the Park doesn't open it has nothing to do with WDFW enforcement issues. We'll know next week.
I know it happened with the Quileutes a few years back and resulted in our fishery being closed early that year. I believe that year the # was in the thousands and had everyone freaking at the time.
Thank You Quileute tribe for not netting during the low water this year and thinking about the future.

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#1060814 - 10/28/22 08:30 PM Re: Rivers reopening [Re: old nate]
FleaFlickr02 Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/28/09
Posts: 3314
To be clear, I don't think snagging is okay, nor should it be tolerated. My point is that if people snagging is what is keeping the rest of us off the water, and WDFW is aware of where it's happening, there is no excuse. Send somebody to a known hotspot and have them ticket every person who is observed snagging. The behavior is sure to change if appropriately penalized....

I mean, it's kind of like the thing with the timber companies closing all the logging roads to public access. I understand their point of view, but man, does the outcomeof the few who misbehave misplace the burden on the many! At least WDFW has SOME authority to punish offenders....

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#1060815 - 10/29/22 10:20 AM Re: Rivers reopening [Re: old nate]
skyrise Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 03/16/00
Posts: 328
Loc: snohomish, wa
Big wow we get 7 days on the Snohomish system ! 7 days ? Really? They’ve got 4,000 fish at hatchery already and more coming and we only get 7 days ? What a joke.
Good news is the Sky river guys are collecting chum starting this weekend for the “ fisherman will do what the useless game department wont “ chum rearing program. Just hope they add a collection point at Lewis street bridge again because we all can’t get down to two bit to drop off fish. A Big Thank You to these guys for putting in the work to bring back Skykomish chum after you know who department tried to wipe them out.
_________________________
Where is the wise man? Where is the scholar? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world?

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#1060819 - 10/29/22 01:00 PM Re: Rivers reopening [Re: FleaFlickr02]
Rivrguy Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 4394
Loc: Somewhere on the planet,I hope
Quote:
I mean, it's kind of like the thing with the timber companies closing all the logging roads to public access. I understand their point of view, but man, does the outcome of the few who misbehave misplace the burden on the many! At least WDFW has SOME authority to punish offenders....


Snagging or whatever behavior comes with people just as a commercial using the recovery box for a trash bin. The question should be how does this effect escapement? How many fish are we talking about removed from escapement? 1, 10, 100, 1000 just what is the number of fish removed from the spawning population? In the big picture of harvest/dead fish it is my thought that it is small. It is about perception within the department becoming reality and the optics of bank angling mixed in.
_________________________
Dazed and confused.............the fog is closing in

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#1060825 - 10/29/22 11:02 PM Re: Rivers reopening [Re: old nate]
k&P Offline
Juvenile at Sea

Registered: 09/21/03
Posts: 106
Loc: Forks, WA
I'm curious. What makes you think it was a problem with snagging? The state only controls a small piece on the Salmon & none of the Queets. There was no water until recently. I never fished the Clearwater so I have no input on that.
Could it be possible that the tribe who nets the Queets is the issue and they netted way more fish than anticipated? It wouldn't be the 1st time. The Queets has had a hard time meeting Coho escapement goals for years yet they keep on netting.
Once the rivers go up snagging usually diminishes.

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#1060827 - 10/30/22 07:30 AM Re: Rivers reopening [Re: old nate]
fish4brains Offline
Dah Rivah Stinkah Pink Mastah

Registered: 08/23/06
Posts: 6866
Loc: zipper
it's a problem when the rivers are at record lows with no rain in sight. the river get's closed because salmon are not able to go up with any semblance of normalcy. The rest is people's imaginations and assumptions. Notice how as soon as we had one decent rain and were close enough to a forecast of rain that will bring flows back to normal, the river opened up? Snagging is one of the things that happens in low water, but not why the department closes rivers.
_________________________
...
Propping up an obsolete fishing industry at the expense of sound fisheries management is irresponsible. -Sg



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#1060829 - 10/30/22 10:04 AM Re: Rivers reopening [Re: fish4brains]
FleaFlickr02 Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/28/09
Posts: 3314
Originally Posted By: fish4brains
it's a problem when the rivers are at record lows with no rain in sight. the river get's closed because salmon are not able to go up with any semblance of normalcy. The rest is people's imaginations and assumptions. Notice how as soon as we had one decent rain and were close enough to a forecast of rain that will bring flows back to normal, the river opened up? Snagging is one of the things that happens in low water, but not why the department closes rivers.


Two problems with that generally correct (IMO) statement:

1. Flows on the Queets went up sooner and more dramatically than in any of the Grays Harbor streams. If flows were the entire reason for the closures, those rivers should be open, but they're not.

2. The statement from WDFW cited "recent fisheries activities" as the reason why those rivers are still closed.

I don't suspect any sort of foul play or ill intent; I'd just be interested to know what really happened there.

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#1060830 - 10/30/22 10:20 AM Re: Rivers reopening [Re: Rivrguy]
FleaFlickr02 Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/28/09
Posts: 3314
Originally Posted By: Rivrguy
Quote:
I mean, it's kind of like the thing with the timber companies closing all the logging roads to public access. I understand their point of view, but man, does the outcome of the few who misbehave misplace the burden on the many! At least WDFW has SOME authority to punish offenders....


Snagging or whatever behavior comes with people just as a commercial using the recovery box for a trash bin. The question should be how does this effect escapement? How many fish are we talking about removed from escapement? 1, 10, 100, 1000 just what is the number of fish removed from the spawning population? In the big picture of harvest/dead fish it is my thought that it is small. It is about perception within the department becoming reality and the optics of bank angling mixed in.



Exactly my point. Snagging is bad, but is it really a significant factor in the overall decline of salmon runs? If not, it's not a legitimate justification for closing sport fisheries.

To be clear, I have no idea what the reasoning was behind keeping the Clearwater and Salmon closed, and I'm not making any claims or looking to promote any conspiracies. I'm just curious to know what's really going on, because flow and numbers of spawning fish were not mentioned as reasons; only the mysterious "recent fisheries activities."

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#1060831 - 10/30/22 10:31 AM Re: Rivers reopening [Re: old nate]
Carcassman Online   content
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7413
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
Interesting that snagging seems to be such a large issue here. Based on my (huge) sample size of fishing sockeye 4 days on the Kenai I saw a whole lot less snagging than I see on Minter or Kennedy. The anglers themselves seem to police it pretty well. Plus, ADFG has folks out there watching and enforcing. It just seemed, to me, that the folks up there were more willing to comply and snagging was defined as not hooked inside the mouth.

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#1060838 - 10/30/22 02:56 PM Re: Rivers reopening [Re: old nate]
k&P Offline
Juvenile at Sea

Registered: 09/21/03
Posts: 106
Loc: Forks, WA
Keep an eye on what the National Park does on the Queets in the next few days. I predict they will be opening their land back up with all this rain that has given the fish time to get upriver. I

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#1060840 - 10/31/22 06:47 AM Re: Rivers reopening [Re: old nate]
cohoangler Offline
Three Time Spawner

Registered: 12/29/99
Posts: 1611
Loc: Vancouver, Washington
It's probably just the opposite. The National Park Service will check with WDFW on re-opening the Queets. The NPS doesn't manage fish. WDFW does.

But you are still correct. The Queets will most likely open within the next few days.

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#1060841 - 10/31/22 12:27 PM Re: Rivers reopening [Re: old nate]
DrifterWA Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 04/25/00
Posts: 5074
Loc: East of Aberdeen, West of Mont...
10/31/2022

WDFW held off long enough that the "bank bound" anglers, missed a chance to catch a fish.

It'll be a while before tributaries will be fishable, then the November 1, down to one fish kicks in.

You can bet your ass that the QIN and the NT nets won't be protecting any fish, should be perfect for some money making in gill net or set net water.
_________________________
"Worse day sport fishing, still better than the best day working"

"I thought growing older, would take longer"

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#1060842 - 10/31/22 04:38 PM Re: Rivers reopening [Re: old nate]
k&P Offline
Juvenile at Sea

Registered: 09/21/03
Posts: 106
Loc: Forks, WA
Looks like the Park opens tomorrow. The press release has gone out.
The Queets & Salmon will remain closed. Conservation issues. Sounds like the tribe did not stop netting until mid Oct.

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#1060844 - 10/31/22 07:00 PM Re: Rivers reopening [Re: old nate]
Krijack Offline
Three Time Spawner

Registered: 06/03/06
Posts: 1531
Loc: Tacoma
What I would like to see, is next years allocations being adjusted to make up for any imbalance in the numbers if the tribe took more than the allocated amount this year. Every time the reverse happens, the state takes actions to reimburse the tribes.

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#1060845 - 10/31/22 08:24 PM Re: Rivers reopening [Re: old nate]
Carcassman Online   content
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7413
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
Part of the original Boldt Decision was Equitable Adjustment(EA) for salmon (only). It includes all harvests in WA managed water. I was involved in few pay-back situations.

Before you get to EA you might run into foregone opportunity; a situations where one could have fished but chose not to.

But, the Co-managers can agree to whatever they want. Just saying that the court decisions, and this went to the Supremes twice, is still out there.

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#1060846 - 10/31/22 09:46 PM Re: Rivers reopening [Re: old nate]
Krijack Offline
Three Time Spawner

Registered: 06/03/06
Posts: 1531
Loc: Tacoma
It is out there, but only seems to be applied to one side. I realize that small imbalances are to be expected, but where one side takes ignores the numbers, some sort of effort has to be taken or it becomes a precedent. I have not idea what has happened in this case, but I do not think forgone opportunity can be argued if the fish would have eventually be available for harvest but were taken before that could happen.

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#1060847 - 11/01/22 10:42 AM Re: Rivers reopening [Re: old nate]
FleaFlickr02 Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/28/09
Posts: 3314
What a bummer. Looking to me like we may have lost the Queets drainage for good.

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#1060849 - 11/01/22 03:26 PM Re: Rivers reopening [Re: old nate]
Carcassman Online   content
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7413
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
WDFW should be made to explain how it (now) deals with EA and why it is not being pursued. I recall Phil A, before becoming director, noted that steelhead were left on the table on one Coastal River because "We got the fishery we wanted." Never explained who "we" was to sporties who asked why they couldn't go fishing for them. So, there are reasons but the folks who pay the freight deserve to know them.

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#1060850 - 11/01/22 03:58 PM Re: Rivers reopening [Re: old nate]
Krijack Offline
Three Time Spawner

Registered: 06/03/06
Posts: 1531
Loc: Tacoma
A small example of not pursuing is the Crabs in area 11. In 2020, the sports side fell short on their quota by around 9262 while the tribes took a little over 500 more than their quota. ("The final non-tribal crab landings for MA 11 were 28,248 pounds and the tribes harvested approximately 38,062 pounds." The initial quota was 37500 per side) There was talk of opening for a holiday season, but it never happened. From what I can tell is that the state did a census and found that the crabs simply were not there in numbers to allow an opening. So, what happened then next year, well, we got the same 50/50 split with the tribe, with no adjustments. At worst, they should at least had a reduction of the Approx 500, and for equity the state should have gotten at least a percentage of the 9200 sent our way. but the usual seasons were taken.

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#1060851 - 11/01/22 08:36 PM Re: Rivers reopening [Re: old nate]
Carcassman Online   content
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7413
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
I know EA is/was applicable to salmon, not to steelhead, and have no idea about shellfish or rockfish.

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