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#1060891 - 11/09/22 08:40 AM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET *** [Re: FleaFlickr02]
Rivrguy Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 4392
Loc: Somewhere on the planet,I hope
Years ago a retired WDFW employee taught me not to hit send when pissed off! So I have been thinking about the 2022 rec season and what happened. Below is my response to Mr. Cunningham's response to my objections. I cannot do the attachments but if anyone wants them just PM me.

November 10, 2022
Director Susewind
WDFW Commission
Kelly Cunningham
James Losee
Mike Scharpf

I am writing to voice my and others’ objections to the manner staff and the Director conducted the 2022 fishing season setting processes for the Chehalis Basin and subsequent actions for conservation.

The agency utilized what has become known as ZOOM and by intent or accident had the outcome of drastically reducing the public’s ability to ask questions. Some citizens were able to work around the refusal of the moderator to recognize them by utilizing group cell text with others to be able for one of them to be recognized. The process resulted in limiting questions without an in-depth look at the proposed 2022 harvest. Some examples are:

1. The public was not made aware that staff was standing down the 3/5 clause limiting harvest if a salmon stock had not made escapement three out of the five previous years. As Region 6 staff have yet to release the 2021 escapement numbers due to what I am told is a data issue one cannot say with certainty but I believe Coho were in what is known as the “3/5 penalty box” Grays Harbor Management Policy (GHMP) is attached. When the GHMP was adopted it was discussed by many participating that Coho could be an issue as the run size can have dramatic ups and downs. This would result in a year such as 2022 with a large run size forecast while previous years had failed to make escapement which is exactly what happened in 2022.

In discussions during the adoption of the GHMP this issue was identified as one of the issues that the adaptive management clause of the GHMP would allow to be addressed. While the use of adaptive management was proper for Coho in 2022 allowing for expanded harvest vs being restrained to the 5% of the natural Coho run size that GHMP 3/5 clause required the failure of staff to clearly outline what actions were being taken in 2022 and why such actions were required was not discussed. To say this failure by WDFW staff was and is completely inappropriate by any measure is true.

2. The public was not made aware that WDFW staff was standing down the 4/3 clause that requires that there be three net free days in a calendar week. This provision is not binding on the Quinault tribal fishers. Grays Harbor Management Policy is attached.

When I objected to the standing down of the GHMP 4/3 clause I received a letter from Mr. Cunningham (attached) with this paragraph.

During North of Falcon, District 17 Fish Biologist Mike Scharpf and Director Susewind compromised on a season structure with the co-managers that follows the intent of the Grays Harbor Salmon Management Policy by enhancing the overall economic well-being and stability of Grays Harbor fisheries, providing fair distribution of opportunity across all sectors, and minimize gear and other fishery conflicts. The resulting schedule provides at least three consecutive days without nets in the water each week there are non-treaty commercial days scheduled. During statistical week 43, those consecutive days occur Friday through Sunday. Each of the other weeks in which non-treaty commercial fisheries are scheduled, those days without nets occur Thursday through Saturday.

The Grays Harbor Basin Salmon Management Policy provides guidance for commercial fisheries and under Guiding Principle 8 states that we shall schedule a minimum of 3 consecutive days in a given calendar week if possible: “Recreational and WFDW-managed commercial fisheries shall be structured (e.g., schedule, location, gear) to minimize gear and other fishery conflicts. WDFW-managed commercial gillnet fisheries in a fishing area or aggregate area (i.e., Area 2A/2B/2D; or Area 2C) shall be scheduled, if possible, so that in any given calendar week there are a minimum of three consecutive days when no treaty or state-managed commercial fisheries occur. If the treaty fishery occurs 4 or more days in a calendar week, no WDFW-managed commercial fishery shall occur in the remaining days of the week.” Negotiations this year did not make 3 days within a given calendar week possible, and the policy was not violated.

With all respect, Mr. Cunningham this description of the intent of the GHMP is nearly a complete fabrication and at the absolute least a complete warping and misread of the purpose and intent of 4/3. For most of my nearly 75 years salmon harvest was managed primarily as a kill fishery at the Aberdeen 101 bridge. Any inland recreational fisheries were restricted to a small part of the Chehalis Basin and starting in the 1990’s working with the then Deputy Director local volunteers were slowly able to get opportunities inland. The GHMP 4/3 clause was the final peace and 4/3 is not about Rec vs commercial at Aberdeen but rather that the three net free days allowed the “inland Chehalis Basin communities” a reasonable access to harvest and ended WDFW’s discrimination and bias against the inland communities and freshwater fishers. For these communities the Chehalis River has three commercial gillnet fisheries NT Commercial, QIN commercial, and Confederated Chehalis Tribal nontreaty commercial fisheries. For the inland communities a commercial fisher is a commercial fisher and they have long since gotten past the color of one’s skin or ethnicity defining anyone. The words in the GHMP “if possible” are about the Quinault Nation (QIN) as they sometimes fish more than four days thus the river would not achieve three net free days. The words ‘calendar week” were suggested by a retired WDFW staffer to ensure staff did not bookend days to get around 4/3 which Director Susewind is exactly what you and Mr. Scharpf did in 2022. Director this is a return to the old discriminatory practices of the WDF past and have no place in this time and place. Discrimination for any reason or cause is not acceptable and WDFW’s action clearly show it has a way to go to end the discriminatory practices of the past toward the inland Chehalis Basin communities and fishers.

3.The public was not informed that by WDFW calculations natural spawning Chinook would only total 8,801 with an escapement goal of 9,753. Final 2022 Harvest Model is attached.

The failure of staff to explain the rational and how the 8,801 number was created and why in the 2022 model QIN appear to be fishing well into escapement is appalling! When I contacted staff I was told that QIN were allowed to count all Chinook spawning in the gravel as part of the natural spawn be they hatchery or wild origin. (Chinook Escapement change attached) The paragraph below clearly defines the why and how this action is applied.

The reevaluation of the Grays Harbor fall Chinook spawner escapement goal occurred in 2014. Three spawner-recruit functions were considered (Shepherd, Beverton-Holt, Ricker), and the Ricker model was identified as being the most appropriate form for both the Chehalis and Humptulips datasets. Brood years 1986 to 2005 were used in the analyses. In all analyses, parent generation escapement (i.e., spawners) includes both natural- and hatchery-origin fish spawning naturally. Spawner recruitment, biological based natural spawning escapement goals were developed for Chehalis and Humptulips rivers. Based on the Ricker analysis model, a Chehalis River fall Chinook natural spawning escapement goal of 9,880 was proposed and 3,620 for the Humptulips River. A harbor-wide natural spawning escapement goal of 13,500 was proposed.

When one looks at the WDFW 2022 harvest model it shows a predicted 8,801 natural Chinook escapement which is well below the escapement goal of 9,880. If one then adds hatchery broodstock production of 2,147 the 2022 adult natural Chinook spawners the number is 10,207. Simply put it appears the QIN and WDFW are counting Chehalis Basin natural spawning Chinook in two different ways. For a number of us this is problematic as first and foremost the co-managers should not count spawners two different ways. Secondly in administering harvest in this manner it places nearly all conservation requirements on the terminal non-treaty fishers.

4. Item 3 leads directly to item 4 and the closure above Fuller Hill and the tributaries for conservation due to low flows. First off the Chehalis above Fuller Hill was appropriate but not for low flows as that is not an issue with the Chehalis River. It was appropriate due to high water temperatures and this is a known issue known to WDFW dating back to the 1990’s. At that time the Chehalis Tribal & East Grays Harbor volunteers encountered a severe mortality with captured Chinook females. WDFW staff and retired WDFW staff working as volunteers concluded that the stress of warm water and being captured did not allow the female Chinook to recover from being handled. The solution was to suspend Broodstocking until the water temperatures dropped below 60 degrees with 55 degrees being the target temperature. While the closure above Fuller Hill was correct as a catch and release of hook and line ends with the same results as Broodstocking with a tangle net but to mislead citizens with a false narrative as to why a closure was required was not correct in fact was somewhat dishonest to say the least.

When looking at the tributary closures below Fuller Hill the low flows were the rational provided in the press release. When I inquired what and why and provided a video to all of the salmon movement on 23rd (video is attached) it clearly showed a major movement of ocean bright Coho just downstream from Schafer Park. Now to be clear between the 15th to 23rd of September the Chehalis tidewater experienced the largest buildup of Coho and Chinook I have ever witnessed. On the 23rd and 24th of September the massive buildup of salmon moved upstream rapidly to the point that when the QIN started fishing September 25th the vast majority of the early part of the Coho run was upstream above the QIN tribal fishers and into the tribs and the Chehalis Fuller Hill flats. This premise is borne out by Bingham Hatchery having a return of over 30,000 by Nov 3rd and both QIN and NT commercials failing to come close to projected harvest impacts.

The video I provided, which was taken by a third party, clearly shows the movement so in my mind Coho returns most certainly could not be the issue as the video clearly showed the mass movement. Chinook on the other hand were of concern but freshwater rec fishers were limited to catch and release of Chinook with a mortality of bay and inriver recreational impacts of 567 fish. The mortality associated with the number of Chinook encountered (catch and release) is covered by the modeled harvest so what could be the problem is the question? That the preseason forecast was wrong is always possible but how would staff know that before the spawning window closes and redd counts are completed? With 2021 spawner numbers not complete how can 2022 numbers indicate low returns? One cannot use the commercial catch numbers be they Non-Treaty or QIN as they modeled Coho and Chinook were well upstream as previously pointed out.

I suppose one could argue that the combined anecdotal information indicated a possible problem but I am reminded by others of the simple facts outlined below.

2022 Modeled Chehalis Basin Chinook Harvest
Alaska harvest 11,617
British Columbia harvest 4,637
WA Coast Treaty and Non-Treaty marine harvest 291

Terminal returns 14,957
QIN harvest 3,566
Rec impacts bay / inriver 567
Chehalis tribal 257 (charged to state share)

Alaska and British Columbia were modeled for 2022 to take more Grays Harbor Chinook (only WDFW separates the Humptulips and Chehalis rivers) than cross the bar at the mouth of Grays Harbor. The QIN will take a good number with the Chehalis tribal fisheries (which again is charged to the state share) taking a modest number.

It is not that difficult to be concerned about the health of Grays Harbor Chinook but this always comes to mind. I have never been aware of a WDFW Director including Director Susewind or WDFW representatives to the ocean harvest managers objecting to massive over harvest off Chehalis and Humptulips Chinook by Alaska and British Columbia marine fisheries. I am not aware of the WDFW Commission objecting to the destruction of Grays Harbor Chinook. I am not aware of any past or present Governors, state or federal Representatives, state or federal Senators or local elected officials object to utter depravity of the destruction of our Grays Harbor Chinook stocks. With this information how can any citizen be expected to take any part of WDFW management of Grays Harbor Chinook seriously?

If Chinook concerns in 2022 existed in the tributary’s options were available. On the Satsop staff could have made the closure above the old highway bridge as Chinook mostly move above the bridge and below the bridge to the Chehalis is the prime bank fishing area for Coho on the Satsop. The same applies for the Wynoochee as the railroad bridge just down the road from Region 6 offices would have worked for a shut off line and downstream from the railroad bridge the Port of Grays Harbor owns a substantial public access reach of the river utilized by bank fishers.

5. One final item I wish to address to Director Susewind and Mr. Cunningham. In your letter of October 19, 2022 (attached) you stated the following.

Negotiations for the commercial fishery openings in Grays Harbor occurred during the 2022 North of Falcon process and have remained unchanged since they were submitted with the CR-102 filing on May 17, 2022 and finalized by the signing and filing of the CR-103 on June 29, 2022. Planning Model D, which includes the same planned commercial fisheries, was sent both to the distribution list of advisers and the general Grays Harbor distribution list on Friday April 15, 2022, in preparation for the final GH/WB Post North of Falcon salmon fishery discussion held on April 19, 2022.

I cannot find fault with your statement as written as I do believe I and the other former Advisers did receive this information as did the general public but gentlemen you left out an itty bitty detail, you fired us two years ago! You did so without communication, justification, or just plain anything but silence. I found out from a former Willapa Adviser second hand! Whatever your reason was Advisers serve at your pleasure Director Susewind and if you wanted me or any other Grays Harbor Adviser removed it is your privilege sir. That said it is not appropriate for you to fail to acknowledge your actions toward both the Grays Harbor and Willapa Advisers for whatever your reasons were. To misrepresent the issue such as was done in Mr. Cunningham’s letter to imply that the Grays Harbor Advisers were fully functional and well informed is a serious misrepresentation of the facts.

Sincerely

_________________________
Dazed and confused.............the fog is closing in

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#1060893 - 11/09/22 05:03 PM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: Rivrguy]
Rivrguy Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 4392
Loc: Somewhere on the planet,I hope
A guy I know did these numbers up off the information I provided you all. Anything that is off or not correct?

11,617 (37%) = Harvest impacts in Alaska (primarily commercial)
4,637 (15%) = Harvest impacts in Canada (primarily commercial)
291 (1%) = Harvest impacts on the WA Coast (primarily commercial)
16,545 (53%) = Harvest impacts prior to returning to Grays Harbor

3,566 (11%) = Harvest impacts by the Quinault Tribe (commercial)
567 (2%) = Harvest impacts by the non-tribal recreational community in the bay/river (recreational)
257 (1%) = Harvest impacts by the Chehalis Tribe (commercial)
10,567 (34%) = Total unharvested fish, of which a percentage are wild and allowed the opportunity to spawn
_________________________
Dazed and confused.............the fog is closing in

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#1060897 - 11/10/22 09:26 AM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: eyeFISH]
WDFW X 1 = 0 Offline
My Area code makes me cooler than you

Registered: 01/27/15
Posts: 4480
So is the upper ditch open?
1 Fish?
Does it need to be a hatchery fish?

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#1060898 - 11/10/22 09:47 AM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: eyeFISH]
Carcassman Online   content
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7440
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
Maybe we should support the tribes reopening the "All Citizen" suit whereby any catch in US waters counts as part of the share. That would make AK part of the sharing...

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#1060899 - 11/10/22 09:53 AM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: Rivrguy]
eyeFISH Offline
Ornamental Rice Bowl

Registered: 11/24/03
Posts: 12606
Originally Posted By: Rivrguy
A guy I know did these numbers up off the information I provided you all. Anything that is off or not correct?

11,617 (37%) = Harvest impacts in Alaska (primarily commercial)
4,637 (15%) = Harvest impacts in Canada (primarily commercial)
291 (1%) = Harvest impacts on the WA Coast (primarily commercial)
16,545 (53%) = Harvest impacts prior to returning to Grays Harbor

3,566 (11%) = Harvest impacts by the Quinault Tribe (commercial)
567 (2%) = Harvest impacts by the non-tribal recreational community in the bay/river (recreational)
257 (1%) = Harvest impacts by the Chehalis Tribe (commercial)
10,567 (34%) = Total unharvested fish, of which a percentage are wild and allowed the opportunity to spawn

66% exploitation on Chehalis chinook pretty well in line with the CTT 63% exploitation cited in your earlier post.

80-85% of all the harvested fish are taken BEFORE a single one swims over the bar.



As I said before, the crime in all of this is intentionally managing for a nearly 2/3 exploitation rate. Dum'fuckery at its finest.
_________________________
"Let every angler who loves to fish think what it would mean to him to find the fish were gone." (Zane Grey)

"If you don't kill them, they will spawn." (Carcassman)


The Keen Eye MD
Long Live the Kings!

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#1060900 - 11/10/22 10:49 AM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: eyeFISH]
WDFW X 1 = 0 Offline
My Area code makes me cooler than you

Registered: 01/27/15
Posts: 4480
So is the upper Chehalis open?
1 Fish?
Does it need to be a hatchery fish?

Anybody.

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#1060902 - 11/10/22 11:12 AM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: WDFW X 1 = 0]
20 Gage Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 02/15/21
Posts: 306
Originally Posted By: WDFW X 1 = 0
So is the upper Chehalis open?
1 Fish?
Does it need to be a hatchery fish?

Anybody.


As this is the Chehalis channel, you should get an answer bite or three here.

If no answer, here’s the latest from the Green. Chum are in, as are the coho, and itz open, so let’s spread out the opportunity as handed too us...

wink

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#1060905 - 11/10/22 11:42 AM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: eyeFISH]
WDFW X 1 = 0 Offline
My Area code makes me cooler than you

Registered: 01/27/15
Posts: 4480
Apparently this is a tough question.

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#1060906 - 11/10/22 12:10 PM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: WDFW X 1 = 0]
Rivrguy Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 4392
Loc: Somewhere on the planet,I hope
Just got this and yes to the question is the upper Chehalis open and below it says two fish only one wild from the 12th to the end of Nov.

Adult coho salmon daily limit increased in the Chehalis Basin
Action: Increases the adult salmon daily limit
Effective date: Nov. 12 through Nov. 30, 2022
Species affected: Salmon
Locations:
1. Black River (Grays Harbor/Thurston Co.) from mouth to bridge on 128th Ave. SE
2. Chehalis River (Grays Harbor Co.) from Hwy 101 Bridge to high bridge on Weyerhaeuser 1000 line
3. Elk River (Grays Harbor Co.) from Hwy 105 bridge to the confluence of Middle Branch
4. Hoquiam River, including West Fork (Grays Harbor Co.) from Hwy 101 bridge to Dekay Rd.
5. Hoquiam River, East Fork (Grays Harbor Co.) from mouth to confluence of Berryman Creek
6. Johns River (Grays Harbor Co.) from Hwy 105 bridge to confluence of Ballon Creek
7. Newaukum River, including South Fork (Lewis Co.) from mouth to Leonard Road
8. Satsop River and East Fork (Grays Harbor Co.) from mouth to bridge at Schafer State Park
9. Satsop River and East Fork (Grays Harbor Co.) from 400' below Bingham Creek Hatchery dam to the dam
10. Skookumchuck River (Lewis/Thurston Co.) from mouth to 100' below outlet of TransAlta WDFW steelhead rearing ponds
11. Van Winkle Creek (Grays Harbor Co.) from mouth to 400' below outlet of Lake Aberdeen Hatchery
12. Wishkah River (Grays Harbor Co.) from the mouth to 200' below the weir at the Wishkah Rearing Ponds and from 150' upstream to 150' downstream of the Wishkah adult attraction channel/outfall structure (within the posted fishing boundary).
13. Wynoochee River (Grays Harbor Co.) from mouth to WDFW White Bridge access site
Salmon rules: Minimum size is 12". Daily limit six. Up to two adults may be retained, including no more than one wild coho salmon. Release Chinook salmon.
Reason for action: The number of coho salmon returning to hatcheries in Grays Harbor has exceeded pre-season forecasts. Evaluations of commercial catch information and trap counts indicate the returns of both natural-origin and hatchery-origin coho salmon to the Chehalis basin are sufficient to meet or exceed management goals. This, coupled with reduced opportunity earlier in the season because of environmental conditions, provides for increased opportunity now.
Additional information: All Chinook salmon are required to be released.
Anglers can be notified of in-season rule changes by downloading the FishWA app or signing up for fishery change notifications by email at https://wdfw.wa.gov/about/lists.
Information contact: Region 6 office, 360-249-4628


Edited by Rivrguy (11/10/22 12:14 PM)
_________________________
Dazed and confused.............the fog is closing in

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#1060907 - 11/10/22 12:14 PM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: eyeFISH]
WDFW X 1 = 0 Offline
My Area code makes me cooler than you

Registered: 01/27/15
Posts: 4480
Thank you.

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#1060908 - 11/10/22 01:13 PM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: WDFW X 1 = 0]
Rivrguy Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 4392
Loc: Somewhere on the planet,I hope

And a Bay fishery change.

Nov. 10, 2022
Coho salmon daily limit increased in the East Grays Harbor Fishery
Action: Increases the salmon daily limit
Effective date: Nov. 12 through Nov. 30, 2022
Species affected: Salmon
Location: Marine Area 2-2, East Grays Harbor Fishery easterly of a projected line from the mouth of Johns River (Hwy. 105 Bridge) to the Tripod Station on Brackenridge Bluff (46°59.12'N, 124°00.72'W) through channel marker 27 (green).
Salmon rules: Minimum size is 12". Daily limit two, including no more than one wild coho salmon. Release Chinook salmon.
Reason for action: The number of coho salmon returning to hatcheries in Grays Harbor has exceeded pre-season forecasts. Evaluations of commercial catch information and trap counts indicate the returns of both natural-origin and hatchery-origin coho salmon to the Chehalis basin are sufficient to meet or exceed management goals. This, coupled with reduced opportunity earlier in the season because of environmental conditions, provides for increased opportunity now.
Additional information: All Chinook salmon are required to be released.
Anglers can be notified of in-season rule changes by downloading the FishWA app or signing up for fishery change notifications by email at https://wdfw.wa.gov/about/lists.
Information contact: Region 6 office, 360-249-4628
_________________________
Dazed and confused.............the fog is closing in

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#1060911 - 11/10/22 04:07 PM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: eyeFISH]
eyeFISH Offline
Ornamental Rice Bowl

Registered: 11/24/03
Posts: 12606
Only one problem in the bay... "increases salmon daily limit"... NOT!

The current season thru Nov 30 in the permanent rule is already a 2 fish bag for any coho. Now it's a 2 fish bag with only 1 wild.

Not that this is of any practical significance in the middle of November. The bay fishery is pretty much DONE... basically fell off a cliff the last week of October.

Just sayin'...
_________________________
"Let every angler who loves to fish think what it would mean to him to find the fish were gone." (Zane Grey)

"If you don't kill them, they will spawn." (Carcassman)


The Keen Eye MD
Long Live the Kings!

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#1060914 - 11/10/22 10:38 PM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: eyeFISH]
DrifterWA Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 04/25/00
Posts: 4977
Loc: East of Aberdeen, West of Mont...
11/10/2022

In the 50+ years I've lived here, I don't ever remember a major change to extend the rules......this is a good thing!!!!! Is it perfect ?????? well I really like that sports gets to share in these extra/bonus Coho AND NOT HAVE THEM GO TO SURPLUS.

Thanks to Region 6 personal and WDFW higher ups, that allowed this to happen. Things like this happen in Region 5, Cowlitz comes to mind, where limit increases happen seemingly, very fast.

Enjoy, hope the weather stays good.......brown outs, stay away until 11/30......
_________________________
"Worse day sport fishing, still better than the best day working"

"I thought growing older, would take longer"

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#1060915 - 11/11/22 06:50 AM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: DrifterWA]
Rivrguy Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 4392
Loc: Somewhere on the planet,I hope
You do realize the surplus you identified is already in the hatchery so you got another fish that is likely not there. So the odds of getting 1 & 1 are slim day by day. Second kudos to WDFW after they screwed over 90% of the inriver Rec fishers ? I guess if one fishes where this is a benefit it is OK but this is after WDFW took away the biggest part of inriver fishers season for a cooked up rational? I choose not to be a sheep!
_________________________
Dazed and confused.............the fog is closing in

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#1060916 - 11/11/22 08:24 AM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: eyeFISH]
steely slammer Offline
Three Time Spawner

Registered: 02/24/00
Posts: 1500
I think it's a little too late!!!

there probably doing this so when they say no fishing starting Dec 1st they will say we gave u two fish in Nov.
_________________________
Where Destroying Fishing in Washington..

mainly region 6

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#1060917 - 11/11/22 09:04 AM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: steely slammer]
Rivrguy Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 4392
Loc: Somewhere on the planet,I hope

It is not totally to late but it is site specific ! For the Satsop the vast majority of the normal timed hatchery Coho are up and gone and the late Bingham production is Dec fish mostly and the late Coho smolt release is rather small around 150k if I recall correctly. For the upper basin above Fuller Hill the Skookumchuck mitigation fish are late timed but that is a 300k release so it is somewhat beneficial. Bay and below S Monte it is zip nada nope but for two areas above S Monte to Fuller Hill it can be beneficial for the few that fish that reach with boats.

So yup for some they will benefit ........ maybe. One hell of a trade off, destroy the average Rec fishers season especially the bank fishers and then up the bag for a few boat fishers. Again one hell of a deal!
_________________________
Dazed and confused.............the fog is closing in

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#1060918 - 11/11/22 11:05 AM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: eyeFISH]
FleaFlickr02 Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/28/09
Posts: 3310
Good to know the few still fishing the bay can keep two of the fish that aren't there.

Kind of a head scratcher. Maybe the fisheries management equivalent to "greenwashing?"

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#1060922 - 11/11/22 03:32 PM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: eyeFISH]
DrifterWA Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 04/25/00
Posts: 4977
Loc: East of Aberdeen, West of Mont...
11/11/2022

Well, 19 more days and most of the salmon fishers will be off the rivers and wondering, maybe, what the 2023 season will look like????

WDFW has done away with public "face to face meeting", now its a "Zoom environment" where they have complete control of the meeting and a set agenda. If a public speaker doesn't follow their rules, push a button move on to the next speaker.

NOF is a sham, gone are the days when WDFW, NT and Sports met 4 or 5 times a year to work on items important to the region and to NT and Sports, it just went away.

I expect it was more convenient for WDFW to not have to answer to members of the public and NT netters, many times the sport and NT netters, had the longevity and knowledge to question WDFW, so now we are "treated like sheep" and follow the model.

WDFW can't say they didn't know the "mass of Coho" wasn't coming, they just didn't have a "good plan B" on how to deal with the amount of fish that crossed the bar, and headed up the Chehalis and many of the tributaries. QIN missed them, NT season missed them, sports got lot's of them if you were lucky enough to have a boat or fished the Mall area, the Fireman Hole or the very limited bank access from 101 Bridge to the Satsop.

Chinook numbers low, again, low water that "might" have been a problem????? Many viewed the 45 second video that showed "fish" moving up the river but what was WDFW to do????? Protect Chinook??? How to deal with Coho numbers that overwhelmed the hatcheries........Oh my, what to do, buy lots of toilet paper, get a Plan B, quickly......tough to get a Plan B going, if you don't have a plan, so let's "shut the tributaries down", not a good plan for the bank bound fishers.

1000's of Coho that might have fed sport fishers and their families, will now be surpluses and feed cats and dogs.......grrrrrrrr
_________________________
"Worse day sport fishing, still better than the best day working"

"I thought growing older, would take longer"

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#1060932 - 11/13/22 05:42 PM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: DrifterWA]
Rivrguy Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 4392
Loc: Somewhere on the planet,I hope
Bingham numbers up for the week. H 40,108 W 3054 jacks 3033

Looking at 2021 and 2020 numbers all seem to be blowing away previous two years numbers. Keep in mind the fish got past all the commercials and summer Rec fishers or the numbers would be about half of what they are.
_________________________
Dazed and confused.............the fog is closing in

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#1060933 - 11/13/22 06:22 PM Re: FISHINGTHECHEHALIS.NET [Re: eyeFISH]
steely slammer Offline
Three Time Spawner

Registered: 02/24/00
Posts: 1500
wonder why the Quins numbers haven't been posted in over a month?
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The Photo & Video Gallery. Nearly 1200 images from our fishing trips! Tips, techniques, live weight calculator & more in the Fishing Resource Center. The time is now to get prime dates for 2018 Olympic Peninsula Winter Steelhead , don't miss out!.

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