#1060965 - 11/17/22 12:10 PM
Oly. Capital Lake/Dechutes R. Estuary Improvements
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Repeat Spawner
Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 1382
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https://www.king5.com/article/tech/scien...4f-8228e895567b Curious if this could bring a return to using Percival Crk. to raise Chinook? Help the SRKW and South Sound winter blackmouth fisheries. Might the tribes step up? Some history. https://www.leeroysramblings.com/PS_Blackmouth_history.htm This was a very successful program for South PS anglers. I was fortunate to get in on it the last few years it was active. Actually was amazing fishing at it's peak until the tribes wanted there share, and the state stopped production because of water quality problems in Percival Cove of Capital Lake.
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"Life moves pretty fast. If you don't stop and look around once in a while, you could miss it.” – Ferris Bueller. Don't let the old man in!
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#1060966 - 11/17/22 12:28 PM
Re: Oly. Capital Lake/Dechutes R. Estuary Improvements
[Re: RUNnGUN]
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River Nutrients
Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7413
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
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Percival Cove used to raise Chinook in a net pen. Returning the basin to an estuary will make that impossible as the cove will be intertidal. There is still a plan to improve the hatchery operation in the Deschutes and continue land-base Chinook production.
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#1060971 - 11/17/22 07:35 PM
Re: Oly. Capital Lake/Dechutes R. Estuary Improvements
[Re: RUNnGUN]
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Repeat Spawner
Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 1382
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Ok. Any future in rearing delayed release chinook out of Deschutes for a So. PS winter blackmouth fishery? I was thinking using Percival creek as a water source for rearing since it would be cleaned up by the Capital Lk improvements. Maybe Deschutes can do the same thing without infrastructure improvements at Percival? Or maybe not even in anyone's radar for a proven potentially great fishery again?
Edited by RUNnGUN (11/17/22 07:36 PM)
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"Life moves pretty fast. If you don't stop and look around once in a while, you could miss it.” – Ferris Bueller. Don't let the old man in!
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#1060976 - 11/18/22 06:43 AM
Re: Oly. Capital Lake/Dechutes R. Estuary Improvements
[Re: RUNnGUN]
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River Nutrients
Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7413
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
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Tried to use Percival Creek as water source for a hatchery. The live box studies failed spectacularly. If memory serves, the best result for blackmouth anywhere came from marine net pens. Probably the major impediment to a major black mouth fishery would be the sharing imbalance. Can't produce too many fish for the non-Indians.
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#1060979 - 11/18/22 09:53 AM
Re: Oly. Capital Lake/Dechutes R. Estuary Improvements
[Re: Salmo g.]
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Juvenile at Sea
Registered: 07/18/08
Posts: 237
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Salmo,
I do think the Deschutes River releases being self-sufficient (with new facility) would open up incubation and rearing space at the hatcheries that currently support the releases - George Adams, Minter Creek, Coulter Cr, etc. They may or may not have the funding to increase the production but the space may be there.
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#1060982 - 11/18/22 11:11 AM
Re: Oly. Capital Lake/Dechutes R. Estuary Improvements
[Re: RUNnGUN]
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Repeat Spawner
Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 1382
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What ever happened to the funding derived from the Orca Prey Initiative?
_________________________
"Life moves pretty fast. If you don't stop and look around once in a while, you could miss it.” – Ferris Bueller. Don't let the old man in!
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#1060983 - 11/18/22 12:05 PM
Re: Oly. Capital Lake/Dechutes R. Estuary Improvements
[Re: RUNnGUN]
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Juvenile at Sea
Registered: 07/18/08
Posts: 237
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May find the answer in here....it's a big document! https://wdfw.wa.gov/sites/default/files/publications/02213/wdfw02213.pdfMy understanding is that there has been increases to several programs over the last 3 years (Puget Sound, coast and in Columbia) but the larger increases will take expansion of existing or new facilities to fully meet the objectives. The state now has a dedicated capital funding source for hatchery rebuilds/expansions. These projects take a while though...
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#1060984 - 11/18/22 12:27 PM
Re: Oly. Capital Lake/Dechutes R. Estuary Improvements
[Re: RUNnGUN]
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Three Time Spawner
Registered: 06/03/06
Posts: 1531
Loc: Tacoma
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Does anyone know anything about the Point Defiance net pens? Are they delayed or normal release, how many, etc.
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#1060987 - 11/18/22 02:47 PM
Re: Oly. Capital Lake/Dechutes R. Estuary Improvements
[Re: RUNnGUN]
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River Nutrients
Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7413
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
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I think all net pens are to some extent delayed release, at least the saltwater ones. You want to imprint the fish on the pen site.
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#1060992 - 11/18/22 05:03 PM
Re: Oly. Capital Lake/Dechutes R. Estuary Improvements
[Re: JustBecause]
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Spawner
Registered: 02/06/08
Posts: 506
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Salmo,
I do think the Deschutes River releases being self-sufficient (with new facility) would open up incubation and rearing space at the hatcheries that currently support the releases - George Adams, Minter Creek, Coulter Cr, etc. They may or may not have the funding to increase the production but the space may be there. Hood Canal facilities no longer support Deschutes River Chinook production. Changes to programs at facilities that support this program with incubation and perhaps a few days of initial rearing won't make any difference in production potential, but right now all of Coulter Creek's rearing potential is used to support Deschutes. If Deschutes became self-sufficient all of that production potential (at least 30,000 pounds of fish) could be new production.
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#1061035 - 11/23/22 07:07 PM
Re: Oly. Capital Lake/Dechutes R. Estuary Improvements
[Re: RUNnGUN]
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Repeat Spawner
Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 1382
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What kind of number of smolts = 30,000 lbs?
_________________________
"Life moves pretty fast. If you don't stop and look around once in a while, you could miss it.” – Ferris Bueller. Don't let the old man in!
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#1061036 - 11/23/22 07:37 PM
Re: Oly. Capital Lake/Dechutes R. Estuary Improvements
[Re: RUNnGUN]
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Juvenile at Sea
Registered: 04/04/10
Posts: 199
Loc: United States
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30, 000 lbs of what kind of smolts?
If you are asking about fall Chinook smolts then 30,000 lbs out of Deschutes/Tumwater would be about 2.8M using the recent year average size of 4.6 gms per smolt. If it's coho or steelhead then that a whole different number.
Edited by darth baiter (11/23/22 07:55 PM)
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#1061037 - 11/23/22 07:58 PM
Re: Oly. Capital Lake/Dechutes R. Estuary Improvements
[Re: darth baiter]
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Spawner
Registered: 02/06/08
Posts: 506
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30, 000 lbs of what kind of smolts? That would be up to the managers, but roughly 30,000 pounds of fall Chinook is what is transferred from Coulter Creek to the Deschutes, so at least that amount of on-station releases could be made if Coulter wasn't necessary for the intermediate rearing of those fall Chinook. A better estimate of production potential at Coulter could be made with more information about the size and type of their ponds and the water flow (and water quality) available. (Edit: Looks like I didn't see all of the above comment by darth baiter before I responded. Sorry)
Edited by OncyT (11/23/22 08:00 PM)
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#1061038 - 11/23/22 09:37 PM
Re: Oly. Capital Lake/Dechutes R. Estuary Improvements
[Re: RUNnGUN]
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Three Time Spawner
Registered: 06/03/06
Posts: 1531
Loc: Tacoma
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Does the Deschutes get a higher than normal return, or can the numbers be assumed to be increased to double the previous production. I ask because the Deschutes has had some huge returns in the recent past.
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#1061039 - 11/23/22 09:43 PM
Re: Oly. Capital Lake/Dechutes R. Estuary Improvements
[Re: RUNnGUN]
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King of the Beach
Registered: 12/11/02
Posts: 5204
Loc: Carkeek Park
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They are currently doing some type of construction at the Coulter hatchery. Lots of activity there when I’ve been driving by to and from fishing. SF
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#1061040 - 11/24/22 08:49 AM
Re: Oly. Capital Lake/Dechutes R. Estuary Improvements
[Re: RUNnGUN]
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Spawner
Registered: 10/15/03
Posts: 711
Loc: Olympia
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Let's hope they don't build the "greenfield" mega airport site in Thurston County. It's on the short list generated by the WSDOT CACC committee. The footprint is directly on the Dechutes river watershed and the head waters of Spurgeon and Eaton creeks. Spurgeon creek is the main tributary to the Dechutes. WDFW survey shows smolt production in a significant portion of the creek Go to stoptheairport.com to learn more about it.
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"I'm old and tough, dirty and rough" -Barnacle Bill the sailor
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#1061045 - 11/24/22 09:38 PM
Re: Oly. Capital Lake/Dechutes R. Estuary Improvements
[Re: RUNnGUN]
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Three Time Spawner
Registered: 06/03/06
Posts: 1531
Loc: Tacoma
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The only real option for an airport site is to expand the existing Thurston county airport. Close to the freeway, easy expansion to existing rails, limited environmental constraints, lots of undeveloped land already zoned industrial. I think the only reason the other sites are being talked about is so that almost everyone will be relieved when the go the only site that makes sense. The Pierce County site is even worse then the one you mention.
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#1061046 - 11/25/22 07:54 AM
Re: Oly. Capital Lake/Dechutes R. Estuary Improvements
[Re: RUNnGUN]
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River Nutrients
Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7413
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
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I tend to agree, Krijack. One of the big complaints about siting at the current location is the take-off and landing patterns that go right over downtown. When I flew out of there (couple times a week) we tended to takeoff to the south but that means you landed from the north. There are some nice residential areas on that line.
But, from the perspective of access and infrastructure that is the best spot.
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#1061047 - 11/25/22 01:23 PM
Re: Oly. Capital Lake/Dechutes R. Estuary Improvements
[Re: RUNnGUN]
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River Nutrients
Registered: 11/25/01
Posts: 2844
Loc: Marysville
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A couple comments_
1) Yes it looks like the Tumwater hatchery is now self-sufficient. This year there was 3,261 chinook spawned out of a run 13700 adults (and 1,880 jacks).
2) Following the ESA listing of Puget Sound Chinook the use of in-sound nets for Chinook were ended. The problem was that any of the uncaught chinook did not home very well to the release sites. Sampling at the time of natural spawning Chinook throughout the Puget Sound rivers had a significant number (an unacceptable number) of fish reared in net pens.
3) Increasing the number of hatchery produce chinook to benefit is another ESA myth. The resident orcas are large animals that evolved feeding on large Chinook (40/50 lbers) that were common pre 1900. A large male orca requires roughly 450 pounds of chinook a day. Having to catch 40 to 50 hatchery chinook to meet their diet needs is much more difficult that a 125 years ago when it only took 10 or less fish. If the State were truly serious of providing Chinook to meet the orcas' diet needs there would be serious selective breeding at hatchery racks to increase the size of the returning adults. Currently the average adult hatchery Chinook returning to Puget Sound is only 3.6 years old with an average length of 28.5 inches (8 to 10 lbs).
curt
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#1061048 - 11/25/22 04:27 PM
Re: Oly. Capital Lake/Dechutes R. Estuary Improvements
[Re: RUNnGUN]
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River Nutrients
Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7413
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
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I really don't understand why folks on Chinook as end-all, be-all, save-all for SRKWs. At best we had adult Chinook April-September; the rest of the year that ate other salmon. I know that they can and will go after chum, having seen them clean out Dyes Inlet one year.
We know, because we have the adult run-sizes, of what the PS salmon run has been since the 60s. We can easily look at total salmon numbers (and as Amalma notes) and biomass annually since then. We can easily relate this back to the SKKW numbers we have which may not go as far back but go back far enough to have been more abundant.
Having that, we have a target number and biomass of adult salmon to have entering PS to support the whales.
We simply don't want too make the changes necessary to recover SRKWs.
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#1061049 - 11/26/22 07:55 AM
Re: Oly. Capital Lake/Dechutes R. Estuary Improvements
[Re: Carcassman]
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Spawner
Registered: 02/06/03
Posts: 783
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We simply don't want too make the changes necessary to recover ANYTHING in this state.
Fixed that for ya
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#1061050 - 11/26/22 08:06 AM
Re: Oly. Capital Lake/Dechutes R. Estuary Improvements
[Re: RUNnGUN]
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River Nutrients
Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7413
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
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Quite possibly but we have actually recovered a few species.
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