Check

 

Defiance Boats!

LURECHARGE!

THE PP OUTDOOR FORUMS

Kast Gear!

Power Pro Shimano Reels G Loomis Rods

  Willie boats! Puffballs!

 

Three Rivers Marine

 

 
Topic Options
Rate This Topic
#1061753 - 04/18/23 04:31 AM What happened to our Skykomish Chinook Fishery?
PNWBestLife Offline
Alevin

Registered: 02/22/21
Posts: 11
Loc: Puget Sound Area
Hey all,

I hope this is okay to post here, I've got an in-depth article up explaining what happened to our Skykomish Summer Chinook fishery in 2023 out of North of Falcon that we're trying to spread the word on.

https://pnwbestlife.com/what-happened-to-our-2023-skykomish-summer-chinook-fishery/

Appreciate the feedback and ideas here.

Top
#1061754 - 04/18/23 02:36 PM Re: What happened to our Skykomish Chinook Fishery? [Re: PNWBestLife]
Carcassman Online   content
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7083
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
Mixed stock fishing is the death blow to weaker stocks. AK is now throwing bycatch into the mix.

If we want to restore our salmon stocks we need to stop killing them in the ocean either in directed or bycatch fisheries. We have to restore (ie stop killing) the food supply from plankton on up. We have to balance predator levels. Since society really isn't willing to do any of the above, the stocks can just wink out.

Top
#1061755 - 04/18/23 06:53 PM Re: What happened to our Skykomish Chinook Fishery? [Re: PNWBestLife]
Salman Offline
Spawner

Registered: 03/07/12
Posts: 806
Why canít we all just get along? Based on the link above all fisheries should have to comply with it wether they like it or not. The numbers are above my head but based on my calculations other fisheries should take a hit to make it fair for everyone including sportfisherman. With these rules I donít think that perspective is being accounted for and should shame the fisheries that donít get to participate in the closure. In my mind the rules arenít very well thought out only thought out for how much certain fisheries will make in money and that is not fair, itís wrong! And to any of you reading this who are in the wrong, thereís a big middle finger waiting for you on the other side.
_________________________
Why build in the flood plain?

Top
#1061756 - 04/18/23 08:51 PM Re: What happened to our Skykomish Chinook Fishery? [Re: PNWBestLife]
Smalma Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/25/01
Posts: 2834
Loc: Marysville
PNWBestLife-
Nice write-up!

To add a bit; for the most recent five years of data (2016 to 2020) average adult Chinook harvest in the Skykomish was 405 (nearly as many jacks caught).

You are correct the majority of the Souther US (SUS) catch is by the recreational fishery. Most recent estimate (2009 - 2015) was that 87.8% of the SUS total was by recreational fleet.

The four fisheries that hit the Skykomish stock the harvest (only have hard data for the Skykomish as the managers only have code wire tag (CWT) information from the Skykomish hatchery program (using local stock) and there isn't a hatchery program on the Snoqualmie side thus the Skykomish info is used as a stand in for the Snoqualmie.

Accord to the models MA 7, MA 9 and MA 9 summer fisheries and the in-river fishery have the largest impacts on the Skykomish stock. To achieve that 20% overall impact level all 3 of those marine had cuts to their summer quotas with both MA 9 and MA 10 taking about 10%, MA 7 was also reduced but don't recall how much. The reductions in MA 9 and Ma 10 were roughly 400 fish each.

The ocean option being the high option and an increase in the MA 7 over last year had a smaller impact on the over-all harvest/impact rate.

Finally while the 2019 escapement was a dominate factor in this year run (the 4 year old fish) do not look for a rapid bounce back. The most recent run reconstruction (2000-2011) should for 7 of the 12 years the number of recruits (without fishing the number of adults produced) produced by an escapement (spawner (R/S) was less than 1.0. That is the spawners were not replacing themselves (run not rebuilding).

CM -
The irony of the Skykomish/Snohomish situation is that in terms of NOR production outside of the Skagit basin the Skykomish is the second most productive of the PS systems (the Cedar is slightly better).

With the continuing failure of recovery efforts in PS the future PS Chinook fishing will become more challenging not easier.

Curt

Top
#1061757 - 04/19/23 06:24 AM Re: What happened to our Skykomish Chinook Fishery? [Re: PNWBestLife]
PNWBestLife Offline
Alevin

Registered: 02/22/21
Posts: 11
Loc: Puget Sound Area
Thanks Curt, and nice added context! Totally agree with your conclusions about how hard this is going to be going forward...

Top
#1061758 - 04/19/23 07:03 AM Re: What happened to our Skykomish Chinook Fishery? [Re: PNWBestLife]
skyrise Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 03/16/00
Posts: 324
Loc: snohomish, wa
If we are going to push the BS scenario around then letís go to the actual numbers from the gods at WDFW . This yearís projected return numbers for summer king returns to the Wallace hatchery is 7,500 fish. Every year the Wallace gets back 4-5,000 kings easily to the hatchery. And thatís after a full season of fishing from late may to the end of June or early July. The river from (sky) the mouth to the Wallace could be open 7 days a week for the normal season without endangering any wild/native stocks if the rule was to release all unclipped fish. Dang now that wasnít hard was it ? Close the snoqualmie to Salmon fishing until the fall. About 100% of the boats always fish the river from the mouth to the Wallace anyway. Of course this scenario assumes that the Wallace fish have been clipped ? With the proposed regs now the guys with boats will probably go to the skagit now ? Gee now you have more impact on that river if they close the cowlitz for springers ?
_________________________
Where is the wise man? Where is the scholar? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world?

Top
#1061759 - 04/19/23 10:00 AM Re: What happened to our Skykomish Chinook Fishery? [Re: PNWBestLife]
Smalma Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/25/01
Posts: 2834
Loc: Marysville
Skyrise-
Let's indeed talk numbers!

In 2020 (the latest year I could find catch numbers) the Skykomish fishery caught 1,204 Chinook (547 adults and 657 jacks), from WDFW sport catch report.

In 2020 the return to the Wallace hatchery was escapement was 5,130 Chinook (3,848 adults and 1,282 jacks), from the hatchery escapement report.

In 2020 the spawner escapement was 1,975 wild and 747 hatchery (both adult and jacks).

Thus we know that Skykomish in-river run of 7,081 (sum of hatchery escapement, in-river escapement and catch). Of those fish 1,204 were retained in the recreational fishery. That 1,204 fish represent 17% of the hatchery fish.

Assuming that the wild fish are as catchable it would be reasonable to assume that during that fishery 17% of the wild run was also handled. With a co-manager agreed to release mortality of 10%. Meaning that the 17% handling of the wild population equates to 1.7% impact/mortality of the wild population from that fishery.

Because there in-river fishery occurs after much of the harvest has take place the actual in-river impacts for our 2020 example was likely something in the 1.4% (need the total run reconstruction to more precisely determine that number which will not be available for several years.

While a impact 1.4% does seem like much it becomes significant considering that the coast wild total impacts target is 20% and the SUS target is 8.3% at current returning abundances.

In my opinion the in-river was an easy target this year because there was no one at the table advocating or arguing for that fishery. There are arguments to be made for that fish if some folks were will to take part in the process and prepare themselves with solid information rather some off the wall ideas.

Some of the information that might help support arguments for the fishery includes the following:

The Wallace is in the process of increasing the overall production from 5 million to 8 million (to release at site and Tulalip) meaning more fish will be need at the hatchery.

Current WDFW policy calls to emphasis diverse opportunities.

An argument use for many of the tribal fisheries would also apply to this recreational fishery - that it is not a mixed stock fishery; the fish caught are only Skykomish fish.

The fishery seems to have a history catching Jacks are elevated thus helping reducing hatchery jack contribution to the natural spawning population.

Something to think about.

curt

Top
#1061760 - 04/19/23 11:59 AM Re: What happened to our Skykomish Chinook Fishery? [Re: PNWBestLife]
darth baiter Offline
Juvenile at Sea

Registered: 04/04/10
Posts: 180
Loc: United States
An encounter rate of 17% in 2020 when the season ran from Memorial weekend through July 31 just says that a Memorial weekend fishery in 2023 when its likely that the river might be snorting with run off will have deminimis impact. And WDFW is planning to increase production? I guess it will benefit Tulalip and maybe SRKWs. And what does "emphasize diverse opportunities" mean if they can't even have a meaningful sport opportunity at the end of the line where the target fish are concentrated?

Top
#1061761 - 04/19/23 01:12 PM Re: What happened to our Skykomish Chinook Fishery? [Re: PNWBestLife]
Smalma Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/25/01
Posts: 2834
Loc: Marysville
Darth baiter-
I merely suggested that anyone wishes to advocate for this fishery the ideas suggested might be useful. Of course if not one is willing to take up the banner then disregard.

The relative WDFW Commission Policy is C3608 -North of Falcon Policy. Under that policy in the Puget Sound section Chinook and coho section the key sentence is

"When managing sport fisheries in this region, recreational opportunities will be distributed equitably across fishing areas, considering factors such as: the uniqueness of each area, the availability of opportunities for various species in each area throughout the season; the desire to provide high levels of total recreational opportunity and biological impacts."

As I mentioned before at the end of this year's NOF there was no one advocating for the Skykomish fishery. If that is the same next year expect similar seasons.

Something I have observed about recreational fishers is that nearly everyone has an opinion, many are more than willing to compliant about unfair treatment but damn few are willing to roll up their sleeves to go to work to change things. As long we collectively rely on a tiny handful of folks to do the work we will see the lion share of any opportunities going to where that work is being done.

Good Luck!

Curt

Top
#1061762 - 04/19/23 01:45 PM Re: What happened to our Skykomish Chinook Fishery? [Re: PNWBestLife]
Carcassman Online   content
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7083
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
Just to echo Smalma and having worked in direct salmon management in PS he's right that if nobody advocates for a fishery it gets passed over. Even in resident fisheries, the wheel has to squeak to get in the process. As most of us know, there are not enough fish to meet everybody's wants or needs.

Top
#1061763 - 04/19/23 04:34 PM Re: What happened to our Skykomish Chinook Fishery? [Re: PNWBestLife]
Salman Offline
Spawner

Registered: 03/07/12
Posts: 806
And where does anyone get to preach to NOF? I thought it was all closed door, shut your lips business.
_________________________
Why build in the flood plain?

Top
#1061764 - 04/19/23 05:29 PM Re: What happened to our Skykomish Chinook Fishery? [Re: Salman]
JustBecause Offline
Juvenile at Sea

Registered: 07/18/08
Posts: 231

Top
#1061765 - 04/20/23 05:33 AM Re: What happened to our Skykomish Chinook Fishery? [Re: PNWBestLife]
skyrise Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 03/16/00
Posts: 324
Loc: snohomish, wa
A little bit more at NWsportsman now. So if WDFW are So concerned about wild Snohomish system chinook how are they going to have a salmon fishery in Puget sound this summer ? And here again if hatchery chinook are fin clipped doesnít that highly reduce the impact on wild chinook ? If itís ok for saltwater fisheries is not ok for river fisheries ? And since we have an ongoing problem with stilly chinook returns and Snohomish chinook returns shouldnít the north sound saltwater be closed down altogether. And I do not want to see that. And apparently the tribes are doing the counting on the spawning returns for salmon in the Snohomish ? Hmm trust issue ? But at least the tribes are not anti hatchery.
_________________________
Where is the wise man? Where is the scholar? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world?

Top
#1061766 - 04/20/23 07:58 AM Re: What happened to our Skykomish Chinook Fishery? [Re: PNWBestLife]
RUNnGUN Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 1292
I don't get it? Why does everyone have to rally support around a given fishery to have it be open to fish? If a river or system has a good thing going to open, then open it. Just because a river or system has little participation should't mean that you keep it closed. I think it goes back to the tribes dictating in river polocies/seasons with an emphasis getting all recs off the rivers.
_________________________
ďSmart people only believe half of what they hear. Smarter people know which half to believeĒ

Top
#1061767 - 04/20/23 08:01 AM Re: What happened to our Skykomish Chinook Fishery? [Re: PNWBestLife]
PNWBestLife Offline
Alevin

Registered: 02/22/21
Posts: 11
Loc: Puget Sound Area
One of the challenges with the way this went happened at the 2023 NoF is that the Skykomish fishery closure didn't come up until the final day of negotiations. Now, the data should have made this obvious, but I'm not sure people were situationally aware that the Snoqualmie low NOR abundance would lead directly to this late-hour fishery change.
While, the north sound saltwater could be shutdown, it's not necessarily the right move given that you would deny significantly more opportunity due to mixed stock fisheries, just to enable this terminal fishery. I do think the main goal should be to prove limited impact to Snoqualmie NOR stock with the Skykomish only fishery, but I'm not a biologist so it's not obvious to me how to do that? Perhaps, release some hatchery fish in the Snoqualmie and see how many are encountered / recovered in future years on the Skykomish as a proxy for wilds?
I don't think this is purely an issue of advocacy because I know several people who were involved right up to the end, but the there was no real opportunity to advocate. I was on the final public call and did what I could to advocate, but it was already a done deal.

Top
#1061768 - 04/20/23 08:14 AM Re: What happened to our Skykomish Chinook Fishery? [Re: RUNnGUN]
SpoonFed Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 01/29/19
Posts: 1473
Originally Posted By: RUNnGUN
I don't get it? Why does everyone have to rally support around a given fishery to have it be open to fish? If a river or system has a good thing going to open, then open it. Just because a river or system has little participation should't mean that you keep it closed. I think it goes back to the tribes dictating in river polocies/seasons with an emphasis getting all recs off the rivers.
bingo. We shouldn't have to beg. They also don't know a "good thing going" until it happens. Much like accurate weather predicting.

Top

Search

Site Links
Home
Our Washington Fishing
Our Alaska Fishing
Reports
Rates
Contact Us
About Us
Recipes
Photos / Videos
Visit us on Facebook
Today's Birthdays
kokehead, NickD90
Recent Gallery Pix
hatchery steelhead
Hatchery Releases into the Pacific and Harvest
Who's Online
3 registered (Carcassman, Streamer, 1 invisible), 184 Guests and 3 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
John Boob, Lawrence, I'm Still RichG, feyt, Freezeout
11498 Registered Users
Top Posters
Todd 28159
Dan S. 17149
Sol Duc 16138
The Moderator 14486
Salmo g. 13447
eyeFISH 12743
STRIKE ZONE 12107
Dogfish 10979
ParaLeaks 10513
Jerry Garcia 9160
Forum Stats
11498 Members
16 Forums
63693 Topics
643593 Posts

Max Online: 3001 @ 01/28/20 02:48 PM

Join the PP forums.

It's quick, easy, and always free!

Working for the fish and our future fishing opportunities:

The Wild Steelhead Coalition

The Photo & Video Gallery. Nearly 1200 images from our fishing trips! Tips, techniques, live weight calculator & more in the Fishing Resource Center. The time is now to get prime dates for 2018 Olympic Peninsula Winter Steelhead , don't miss out!.

| HOME | ALASKA FISHING | WASHINGTON FISHING | RIVER REPORTS | FORUMS | FISHING RESOURCE CENTER | CHARTER RATES | CONTACT US | WHAT ABOUT BOB? | PHOTO & VIDEO GALLERY | LEARN ABOUT THE FISH | RECIPES | SITE HELP & FAQ |