Cracker-that was a good find.

The only problem I see is how can Fish and Wildlife put this on the back of our licences as words to fish by.

Its only fishing lighten up-save the rage for.....well whatever your into that condones it, fishing is not the outlet, probably why I play hockey. Be ethical and kind to your fishing brethen.


Word.

This is some good information. All too often I'll run into some disgruntled and misinformed property owner who actually believes that he has the legal right to keep me from floating or wading through his property. I've tried to explain that I'm not breaking any laws, but they are dead set convinced that I am not legally allowed to be within the high water marks on their property..... Yes, I have had a gun pulled on me.... Twice! Let me tell you, it's not fun. The kicker with the whole gun thing is that both times that happened, I was only like fourteen or fifteen years old! What kind of an A$$hole would pull a gun on a kid? It wasn't like I was doing anything wrong, I was well within my legal rights. Anyway, as soon as I got old enough, I bought a pistol, Next time it happens, I'll have a little surprize for the poor Son of a b!tch who decides to draw down on me! People who own river front property definately have a right to protect it, but they really should be informed on exactly where their rights begin and end.

ZOZO,
It is beyond me why anybody would want to trespass on private prop., and don't give me the high water mark B.S., try to put yourself in the land owners place. I think most people where schooled to stay off private prop. with out permission. As for a man pulling a gun on you when you where 13 yrs. old,this man just came down and pulled a gun on you and you said nothing to him to make him feel he had to make you leave. Hey, now your all set because you have a gun and you can fish anywhere you want.I own a piece of property next to a launch, what a mistake it was to buy that prop., 99% of the people using the ramp are very good people,and respect my prop., clean up and don't leave crap around, but that bad 1% screw it for the rest of you. A gun is the answer,think about the land owner and put that gun of yours where the sun don't shine, that way you won't be spending 10 to 20 somewhere else.

Captain Mike, There is nothing wrong or illegal about floating through someone else's property. On this particular stretch of river, fishing from a boat is illegal, but there's nothing wrong with using the boat to get from point A to point B.... You have to get out of the boat to fish though. That is what I was doing. I was staying well with in the high water marks, in fact, I was up to my knees in water when this guy came down and started in on me. My brother and I told him that we were with in our legal rights to be there and that we hadn't trespassed to get to where we were. He didn't like that answer. We started to argue and the next thing we knew, this guy had pulled a gun on us! I don't really care if you do own a piece of river front property, you don't have the right to start brandishing a firearm around..... At kids! Like I said in a previous post on this subject. Land owners should know their legal rights. If you don't want to have to deal with this type of stuff, then don't buy riverfront property. Contrary to what all these landowners think, they do not own the river! In Wa. state it's impossible for an individual to own the river. You may own both sides of it right down to the high water mark, but as far as that river is concerned, you have no legal claim to it. And as far as guns go, if rich, old men wouldn't run around pulling their guns on inocent kids, then I'd have never felt the need to ever start to carry. You should stop and take a look at your own logic before you go off all half- cocked about property rights, and you should definately know where you stand legally before you start pulling pistols on people..... You don't have to agree with it, but that's the law.

ZOZO,
All I am saying is that if you show a land owner respect and ask him for his permission, 99% of the time he will let you fish his property. Just check in with him or stay in your boat and fish. You may not have been the start of his Fury, it could have been that boat full of guys from a week ago that left garbage all around above the high water mark. I'm sure you have access to a phone and if the encounter was as bad as you say and in the order you say comtact the Game Warden or the Police, explain your position and ask them to contact the landowner and have a talk with him, get his side of the encounter. I'm sure that they would have told him his rights as a property owner and pulling a gun was very stupid on his part. He also made a bad choise and he could have called the police. They don't like someone pulling a gun on kids/adults either. Just a little word to the wise, now that you own a gun and have said you will pull it if need be the next time, if you pull a gun, you better be ready to use it. ARE YOU READY, or could you fish the next hole and forget all of the BS. Just because you have the right does't mean you have the right, all things are not Black & White, next time try and put yourself in the landowner's shoes. Ask permission it goes a long way.

The line between public and private property has to be drawn somewhere.If that line is the high water mark then permission isn't required.Obviously,giving a little consideration is always the right thing to do.I don't think it is reasonable to expect someone to ask permission to fish on public waters,though.
What if the guy says no?
Do you allow yourself to get run off the river?
I would think that the landowner is breaking the law in claiming public lands as his own.
Maybe if a few of these folks who pull guns on fishermen that have commited no wrong were prosecuted,less people would feel the legitimate need to carry while fishing.
Share the river!!!

I agree, leadslinger. My point is the same as yours, The law says "High Water Mark". If you want a typical Landowner's response, then read back in this thread.... I believe it was something to the effect of "Don't give me that high water mark B.S."..... That's the law! It's not my fault that the law is written the way it is! The law seems to go against me so often that when it's finally on my side, I intend to use it! I refuse to ask permission to fish on a stretch of river that I already hve the legal right to fish! It's just too bad if the Landowner in question doesn't like it.

I hear ya LZ.I had someone try and kick me off the river because I was fishing out in front of their property.I was well below the high water mark,my feet in the water as I recall,and completely out of sight from their house and yard.About a half hour later a Police officer showed up and asked to see a fishing license.I showed him and he left.The Officer was friendly and we shot the breeze for a few minutes before he left.I was legal.The next time this occurs I will ask the cop if their are any harrasment protection laws for fisherman,like there are for hunters,and see if I can't have the ticket go the other way.That would be fair in my book.

[ 07-15-2001: Message edited by: Leadslinger ]

This is my question. If the state goes by the high water mark than why do tribes such as the quinalt and the chehalis have the right to run you off their property? Even if you got to where you were at legaly and did'nt tresspass. Not trying to fire-up a tribal debate, just want to know why it works that way and if there are different rules.

Can someone tell me where to find the "High water mark" laws for Washington. I do alot of bank fishing and would like to have this piece of document to give to the land owners so he can inform and then verify for himself the laws of washington as i walk on down river to advoid any farther confrontation.

thanks crazy

Capt. Mike,

While I believe you are correct that guns being drawn isn't going to help ANYBODY, you are wrong to think an angler is somehow required to ASK to be below the high water mark. You don't have to because on any navigable waterway, the property line ENDS at the OHWM (Ordinary High-water Mark). Asking permission is the wise thing to do, but any chump who tries to toss me off a river because he THINKS he owns it is going to get told to bite off. If a gun gets pulled, then the sheriff is going to get called and his ass is going to go to jail. I don't NEED to ask permission, except to cross private property to access the water. Simple as that.........

I almost always like what Dan S. has to say. Now, as far as the question of getting run off of the Qunalt river or somewhere like that..... I am not a lawyer, and as such I am not well versed in the laws as they apply to Native Americans, so if I'm wrong here, please feel free to correct me. The Tribes are considered "Soverign Nations" and as such, there are several laws that do not apply to them. I do believe that one of these laws may be the whole "property" thing. Perhaps there are laws on the books that allow the Tribes to make their own rules on matters such as these. I know that this isn't a law that we (White Men) came up with. Could you imagine the Fall out that would come from a "No Blacks on the Cowlitz" law? So it must be an "Indian thing.

Hey Capt Mike, see you made it to Bob's Board. To let you know, this is your UPS guy out there in good ole' Vaughn. Delivered to your house today in fact.

Well, I can see all points to this. I know the high water mark rule, but there are still a few people grandfathered owning actual riverbed rights (I know a guy personally on the Nooch who has them and have watched him enforce them with the police backing him). Best policy is to ask (though I know it says it's your right in the lawbooks). But the law won't stop a 9mm slinging your way. The only good confrontation is one avoided. Been involved in quite a few and most have been concluded positively. None have come to blows (at least since I turned 18). I grew up, plus going to jail for assault doesn't suit well with me.

CRAZY
LOOK UP NAVIGABLE RIVERS, AND IT WILL EXPLAIN THE "MEAN HIGH WATER LINE" "MEAN" IS THE HIGH WATER MARK ON A AVERAGE RAINY SEASON. PROPERTY OWNERS OWN THE LAND TO THE MEAN HIGH WATER LINE. IF YOU ACCESSED THE AREA IN A OPEN TO THE PUBLIC AREA, AND STOPPED ON A PRIVATE PROPERTY AREA, YOU ARE OK AS LONG AS YOU STAY BELOW THE MEAN MARK. IF YOU ARE WITHIN 10-15 FEET OF THE WATERS EDGE YOU ARE USUALLY OK. ALMOST ALL RIVERS OF A SIZE TO CARRY A DRIFTBOAT ARE CONSIDERED NAVIGABLE. YOU COULD SAY I WORK IN A BUSINESS THAT DEALS WITH THIS KIND OF CONFLICT. HOPE THIS HELPS