This used to be a site of a lot of bashing. A bit of that will always be part of public forums; it goes with the territory. But I have noticed that Bob's policy of allowing freedom of expression (the American way!) here is not only what a majority of members want, it has lead to peer pressure against out-of-line posts - keeping them to a minimum; rather than relying on undue moderated censure. That's why this post of mine will likely stand here, but was censured at ifish. At ifish there is now an ongoing selective censure of some members posts, while other's same type of posts are allowed to stay unlocked! I am aware of a growing miscontent among a lot of prominent members there; particularly with moderator Hookset and the 'directives' he is getting. After he locked my OSU fishing club/party thread, he deleted this following post I put up: ... [EDIT: I put it back up again with further pertinent info added; after e-mail asking him to show courage in accepting questioning about his postition; rather than delete censure it.] :rolleyes: [Second edit: The kinder gentler version I put back up was also completely deleted; obviously to avoid answering nicely asked appropriate questions and exposure of a distinct double standard present there. Oh well - what the hell.]

Gregg (Hookset - a moderator on his OSU Fishing Club thread closure):



Gregg, of the many pics such as Jennie and Pilar and me and many others have posted, none of them were necessary! Most members really enjoy seeing pics. That's likely why Jennie recently posted loosening the reigns about it some; while keeping it reasonable. There was a huge thread full of pics, posted by some members, of people partying with soft drinks or beer in their hands at Jen & Bill's place. Selective censure is what many members have posted they have the biggest problem with!

Hookset signature:

"life is short, play to live
and live to play" ...

Posted by me just prior to Hookset locking the thread:

"Hey, there really is a Beaver Fishing Club. They post here on ifish! I doubt very many colleges have an on campus salmon/steelhead oriented fishing club (right Birdhunter, Chuck & Duck, 'FishinBeaver', and you other guys? - monikers here). And of course OSU's fisheries biology dept. is one of the best in the country.
As for re-living the college scene a few times - ya, I like it like that. But I think of it as living it up; outright, not re-living it." - RT

Hmmm. Live to play and play to live!
------------------

Thank you Bob for letting us live and play here. We appreciate it. - Steve

[ 10-14-2001: Message edited by: RT 1 ]

[ 10-14-2001: Message edited by: RT 1 ]

As soon as I seen the Nazi's put the hold on it the first thing I thought of was " I bet they don't at Bob's board"

Man it's hard to type when the sourmash is kickin in.

Interesting, I always felt at the ifish BB like I was crashing a private party. Havn't been there in quite some time.

It's like a Payton Place. Don't seem to be any of the problems over here on this board. Issues come and go, people get pissed and it's forgotten.

Fishhead5

RT --- Gregg's edits are reasonable, unless we members want to start paying for Ifish in order to see you use up bandwidth to show photos of yourself leading the beer chugging contest with a bunch of teenagers. And bringing the topic over here is downright silly and childish. Get over it.

Doesn't seem silly nor childish to me since his same thread over there dissapeared.

It disappeared and then came back? Weird. I wonder if RT posted large quantities of pics showing us his tackle offerings up close and personal if he would have been censured? No freakin way. (right mouse/save picture as/RT secrets!)

RT isn't allowed to have any fun? Some folks just want him to teach the masses how to slaughter fish, and bring readership and participants, but he has do it in an approved manner? I say, you want RT, take him as is. It's not like he is constantly posting pics of his butt!

I agree with Thumper!

Aunty M, I meant he had this exact same thread over there.
I don't see it anymore.

Thumped quote:



Thumper Jack and the other Fishin FOOL, you obviously have challenges reading things as they were posted; as a few unfortunate guys do at times. And you posted certain unfounded slander. I had posted the drinking fun was with 21 yr. old seniors; not teenagers. And indeed they were (Sean and Eric; both now graduated) - and they were drinking beer before I arrived, and I got asked to join in! Furthermore, you conveniently ignored the fact that several ifish members posted loads of many many many pics of people drinking beer and partying in front of much younger children at Jennie's place recently. Do you have a concept of what 'selectivity' is? Fairness? Consistency? Apparently not. :rolleyes: At least we know where you 2 stand now. As for bringing it over here? The NAZI's delete anything adverse to their personal agendas. Got an idea for your challenged thought process - don't click on this thread over here if you don't like hearing the facts.

EDIT: Thump, as far as willingness to contribute to higher capacity BB software, I have contributed hundreds of dollars behind the scenes to the ifish BB cause, that you are unware of (verifiable). And I have posted over 3000 times there, including a lot of good fishing tech info. Yet I am not allowed a thread by Hookset that was no less benign than many others, including the hords of pics of the beer drinking partying among very young kids at Jennie's. You say Gregg is doing a proper job of moderating. You are entitled to your opinion. Many of our credible opinions are he is doing a 'selective' job of moderating - perhaps by directive, perhaps not! He is clearly avoiding answering to that publicly, after publicly censuring me and several others in my thread. Facts.

RT

[ 10-15-2001: Message edited by: RT 1 ]

Steve --- I don't really care whether your beer-chugging buddies were 21 or 20......The point is that Hookset (Gregg) asked you to minimize non-fishing photos, as is his right as moderator. Ifish is trying to avoid charging for use of the BB, and such photos apparently consume bandwidth. It seemed to be a reasonable request. That was my point. So relax and catch a fish!

Agree with Thump. Original post in this thread does sound childish. Been to Ifish only a couple of times though. Not that that matters.

I'm with RT on this one. If you are so worried about bandwidth usage and costs, why not delete those stupid cartoon characters everyone seems to use on IFISH. I would certainly prefer looking at RT's college photos than those cartoons. Many of Jen's posts have nothing to do with fishing, and they stay. Thumper, you even posted on some of these non fishing topics. Face it Thumper, this has everything to do with politics and nothing to do with fishing.

Leave what happens on ifish - on ifish. You will be better respected for it.

Steve

I think it was over reaction by the moderator to close the thread. Hey life has been pretty stressful lately and we need to loosen up with some fun posts once in awhile. When I was moderator over there it was too stressful and I got out. The bandwidth concern is bogus! Pics can be deleted as many already have it's no big deal. The cartoons by my friend Rick (Nanook) are harmless fun and do not take up any of ifish disk space.

RT..... IAM WITH YOU ON THIS ONE!! KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK I ENJOY READING YOUR POST'S!!

I am agree with RT on this what is wrong with a few fun pictures. There wasnt anything wrong with that post and there have been plenty of other posts with pictures that are irelevent to fishing that have stayed. Besides whats wrong with a few pictures of beautiful college women. And a little beer drinking. Looked like a great time to me.

i agree with saltine, this is stupid.

If bandwidth is a problem, then why hasn't a limit been imposed on everyone, to one or two images per day/week or something? If there is no clear policy that is applied equally, how does one know they overstepped the bounds? Was Steve asked to modify or edit it BEFORE it was locked? Doesn't sound like it. It did sound arbitrary. Jen should clarify the policy so that this doesn't happen again. All I saw in the picture post instructions was to limit the image size. I also glanced at the guidelines and agreement. It isn't addressed there either.

As far as RT bringing it here, sorry, but if he can't be open and communicate over there, I can see why he would feel the need to post here. How the heck are we all going to know why a thread was locked or a post deleted? And the rule of "if you aren't interested in reading any of this on PP, then don't read the thread," applies.

Here is RT's first couple of lines.


If I had posted my handsome 24 year old son's picture for he and his friends to view, I might have gotten miffed too. I realize it was a gray post, so what? It's allowed all the time. And you want to know why? Because hearing the same old "I fished ____ for 4 hours without a bite" is boring, and people would soon lose interest. I would bet that any threads RT starts are the ones most viewed.

I 3rd that...it is the proliferation of these types of posts that many people (sadly, alot of the 'ole time regulars) dont post on this board anymore.

The politicy, *****ing is somewhat enjoyable in moderation but it is becoming more and more prevelant...

Besides deal with Ifish issues at Ifish...most of us who post here dont post there and vice versa.

Each BB has it's own personality....I happen to like this one. IFish seems a little too persnickety for me whereas this BB enjoys the freedom of life in it's entirety. I've made a couple of posts here that would have got me deleted elsewhere...but here they stood...honest opinions and just good fun shouldn't be censored. This is a fun, truthful, real life BB....I have no real judgement on other BB's as I don't actively use them. Arguments about bandwidth should only come into to play when someone is constantly postin huge files. RT far as I'm concerned post away....never found a problem with your stuff.

Sinker switch to Canadian blended whiskies....that hardcore american sourmash stuff is like sniffin glue! :p

Cove RV Park & Tackle Prostaff(1)
Team Canadian Mist
Always FishOn!
Gooose

Hey AuntyM how did you know what I did today? Fished about 8 hours without a bite on Tillamook Bay. It was very slow and not many got fish.

Well, I'm not going to jump on anyone's bandwagon here. My position is very clear by anyone who knows me and knows my postings. I don't care who said what about whom on what board and where what belongs. (follow that?). There is alot more censure over on Ifish. Remember, it's the site owners discretion to have a BB. It's not truly needed. Whatever the rules are, are set by the OWNER and should be followed by EVERYONE. When one person is panned and the other person applauded for doing same thing is when it's wrong. Why set rules if everyone isn't supposed to follow it.

Well, all I have to say is :rolleyes: , :rolleyes: , :rolleyes: , and :rolleyes: .

Ya, this stuff is a little bit silly - kinda like real life, ay? Maybe not so silly. Part of the reason I have so enjoyed these two NW BBs is because they have become large and diverse enough that they have also become a microcosm of society in general. While both fishing informative and fun, they are also an interesting study of human nature. That's partly why it has become semi-addictive for many members.

For the couple of guys expressing that ifish stuff should be left on ifish, I understand your sentiment. However, understand that these 2 fishing BB communities have a lot more members that belong to both sites than you realize! And when fair things get deleted on ifish by the Nazis, some of us have taken to putting it on this fair site when it is worthy. And importantly, this is about the new age of communication and it's affect on the NW fishing world! Not just ifish or Piscatorial. ... Also as mentioned, you don't have to click on this thread anyway! Why is that concept so difficult for some boneheads to grasp?!? They complain about it, but yet they keep clicking on it and become involved making sniveling posts. Hmmm. Like I said, an interesting study of human interactions and reasoning.

Thanks Aunty M, and many others, for understanding the 'what and why' of this thread. Your wisdom comes thru on your website too Marsha (Aunty M.).

There is a double standard and certain inconsistency of application of so-called 'rules' applied to a public forum on ifish. Like in oppresive big business, the owner and her compatriots are often allowed to by pass these 'rules' while many are not - including me, who helped build that BB both financially and via informative and fun posts; for close to 2 years. I don't remain there for those unfair people with the delete bottons, I am there to enjoy interaction with a whole lot of friends and also a lot of good members there. This situation has been ongoing due to the agenda and disdain of the owner toward the moderators that felt compelled to leave that role at ifish (3 leaving within a half year). Those are facts. Like it or not. Deal with it if you don't like it; because it is the basis for problems that should be avoided. >>>>>

I credibly compare fishing website pages set up as a public forum, to
salmon/steelhead rivers. Just as the adjacent landowners of NW rivers technically own the land on each side of them and even the river bottom too, they do not own the water or fish that run thru them. It's much the same with websites that open a public forum page. The page is technically owned, but the rightfully expressed thoughts of the members can NOT be owned and fashioned! And these members and their contributions are the lifeblood of the whole website; and bring the hit ratings that bring ad revenues to the site! Posted thoughts belong to the posters. And anyone that behaves reasonably should not be censored. Certainly treated the same as others. Not doing so, as has been the case with ifish, is akin to the riverfront property owner telling boaters they can't anchor on the bottom of the river they own; which is legally incorrect. It's also like a property owner telling some boaters where they are allowed to cast into the public water, while allowing their friends to cast where and how they want. That is not right! That's the point this whole thing has come to. Fairness and consistency for all. Like it is supposed to be in free America; and should be everywhere. ...

A deserved rant. That's all.

[ 10-15-2001: Message edited by: RT 1 ]

RT,
You've got to be one of the funniest guys I've met on and off the boards.... I stand behind you 100% with anything that you want to post fishing or not, as for beer we all love it and posting a pic with a beer in hand, WHO CARES!!
Keep up the good work, believe it or not we all look forward to your posts comical or not, they're tipically educating!!
Keith

I agree with you stlhdr1. All of his posts are either educating and funny or both. there are a bunch of guys that belong to both places including the Rpetzold guy that doesn't want ifish stuff on his board here. Now that is stupid. Why try to part these places instead of bringing more fishermen together? and those nazis on ifish don't have the level of intellect of Rt and he makes them look rediculose. He even made a couple lawyers look weak in debates on there. everyithing he said in that long rant here is right on the money. I know. Im a member of ifish to. Now Im staking off for the Nehalem and try to catch a fish and I'll use some of Rt suggestions to improve the odds. Frog

What a waste of time this whole thread is. Who cares what happens on some other privately owned board? They can do what they want. And I, for one, have no interest in seeing people partying with their daughter and her friends. Maybe later I'll post a picture of me wrapping pipes under my house. It's about as relevant and interesting.

Poke

Pokey,


Fishhead5

Well, I suppose if the thread was titled, "RT's party pics" I would have ignored it. But the flowery title beginning with "Freedom of expression" made me think that maybe it was worth reading. I was wrong.

Poke

I have never seen this IFISH forum, did a search for it and came up blank, anyone have the web address?

RT, if you get your panties in a knot every time something doesn't go your way, you are going to need a prescription for Prozac. Using your little influence and notoriety to promote a snotty sour grape attitude is very unprofessional. You come over here and rally the troops for what reason?

The moderators at any sight are human beings that have to make decisions based upon whatever criteria they are given. If they make a seemingly wrong judgement call, it is just that....a judgement call. So what if the party photos were deemed unnecessary. Jen has posted many times about the unwieldly size the board is getting. Is that lost on you? Geez, cut some slack and lighten up.

As a "professional" writer for my favorite fishing magazine, I wonder if you don't have a responsiblity to take a little higher ground and stop this bashing crap. See if Mr. Amato would let you print your little diatribe in his magazine. That should be a good indicator as to whether you should post it here.

RT I really enjoy reading everything that you post. I don't think it's a big deal that you posted some pictures that weren't fishing related. But are you going to get pissed off at Ifish and not go there anymore like you did at Marty's? You are a valuable asset to any BB, but you have to let some things go.

~ Dr Pepper

Hey pitch pocket,

Do you think Frank Amato is afraid of some conflict? Maybe you should read Dave Vedder's columns on logging (noting your signature) to see how afraid he is. I suppose you called STS to cancel your 'scrip because Vedder called the logging industry a bunch of irresponsible jacka$$es?

Thanks for your opinion.

And thanks to pokey for adding to this "waste of time." LOL.

Dr. Pepper,

Pssst, RT started posting again over at Marty's. Don't tell!

I do think RT and others have been through this too many times. I have no problem with folks making a buck on a website. It seems more of a control/power thing than good management? I just don't think much of the censorship is necessary.

What sort of conflict are you referring to? The fact that the logging industry has been irresponsible since just about forever? I'm sure Mr Vedder is the first to come up with that one. Tell me something I don't know. Just because I'm in the business doesn't mean I agree with past logging practices. There is no dispute here that irresponsible logging adversly affects our fish habitat. Add it to the myriad other reasons our stocks have been in decline.

Back to the real issue. RT's rant is unprofessional and unnecessary. You really think Frank Amato would publish that? Is Mr Amato a proud editor to have RT in the fold for his "freedom of expression" essay? Maybe we'll see it in next months STS? I doubt it.

I can't beleive "WE" are giving this tread this much ..action

things have alway been a double standard at Ifish........always

Just depends on "who you know" and weather or not you're an EX mod or know one.....Os
just remember it's a double edged sword

Since I'm new here, I don't know all the history that surrounds the daily drama of these sites and I really don't care, it's boring after a month. I'm sure others not in the cliques feel the same. I'm sure the owner of this site would care not to have poision from another site tainting his.

as far as "RT"...The guy is old enough to have a daughter in college, yet he throws a tantrum like a little leaguer..it's embarassing...

PP,

Or maybe Mr. Amato doesn't give a rat's a$$ what RT does in his own time. Why do you? If you find this thread a waste, why post on it? If you think RT is being childish, why are you joining him? Seems to me that the ONLY threads you post on here are the conflict ones.

Guess that say something about YOU, Mr. Pocket.

The real problem I see with this thread is guys jumping each other for differing opinions. I believe we're bombing the sh!t out of someone right now to protect freedom of speech, amongst other things. Lets practice a little bit of that here by respecting each others opinion, whether you agree or not. That is usually why I enjoy this site more than the other one, along with being able to lift each others skirt now and again for some humor.

If you read a post that makes you po'd, try not to respond for a couple hours. I know I usually do alot better when it doesn't come off the cuff.

Dan, it sounds like you are RT's knight in shining armor. I don't know why I need to get into a pissing match with you about my opinion of RT's diatribe.

Let me spell it out for you. Lets say hypothetically that I hire Jimmy the Greek to comment on sports, he fires off some inappropriate comments to the public, I fire his a$$. Does that ring a bell?

RT is a quasi-public figure now. He has a responsibility to be level headed and appropriate. His post is anything but. It is a childish personal slam thinly disguised as a "freedom of expression" concern. "Is it bringing down ifish?". I think there may be a not so hidden us against them agenda there.

You sound like an angry person. Go ahead and have the last word. Sounds like you need it.

Only angry with those with 10 or 20 posts are going to tell us how things ought to be done. I'm not defending RT, I'm slamming guys like YOU, the mother hen type who think they are going to tell RT how to act, Frank Amato how to manage his writers, and the crackers at Ifish who provide nothing but complaints on a fishing BB. I don't need the last word, but I'd LIKE it if wankers provided ANY types of fishing info and not JUST complaints.

There's your last word...........

Hmm...this isn't the first time Pitch Pocket has posted about "hidden agenda's" You don't suppose he/she has a hidden agenda do you?

Sure does sound like a lot of whiners on here, WHO CARES? All you whiners are probably the same people that's heart's sink when they pull into the parking lot at 7:00 AM and see 3 driftboat trailers that are ahead of you, or do you even fish. Perhaps you're looking for the excitement to get into a shooting match and debate on here. Save your breath and let's talk more fishing.
RT, all though you've found some bashers, I'd suggest you keep posting and any of those that don't like the thread, just stay off the post...
Keith

Dan, I'm glad you cleared that up. So it's not what I'm saying, it just that I'm saying it. It's ok for a sportsman such as yourself with lots of posts to complain about me, but "crackers" and "wankers" as you refer to other less prolific posters here, may not post opinions without getting slammed? You have a pretty exclusive club here. Maybe this is just the place for angry sportsman who hold most others in disdain.

With only 10 or 20 posts, what could I possibly tell YOU about fishing?

Hey PP,

Looking for that "last word"?

It's not that you post complaints......it's that ALL you post are complaints, or disagreements. See the difference?

And no, there probably isn't much you can tell me about fishing, but how would you (or I) know if you only post on complaining threads?

Tell you what, post something worthwhile to a fishing BB. Still waiting..........

All this would be funny if it wasn`t so sad.. :rolleyes:

You are incorrect sir. If you actually search the sight, most of my posts are either offering or asking for information directly related to fishing. Maybe you could actually do some research before you slam away. Anyway, you've successfully turned this thread around to be all about ME! Way to go.

You did say "I don't need the last word"

Hi all, I can't help to chime in on this topic because of the crux of what RT is trying to get folks to understand.

Freedom of speech is a consitutional right. While there are rules policing DB's like this and ifish, still the bottom line is both of these PUBLIC forums have a diverse mixture of people with different backgrounds that have many interests. I would think it would be one dimensional to keep the topics strictly to fishing which ultimately the amount of visitors who come to this place might decline, then sponsors would not want to advertise thus leading to the potential end of a great site. I'm not saying this will happen but the potential is there if topic matter cannot be as diverse as the audience.

I fish and do enjoy reading all the great info that is presented but I also enjoy the commadarie that exists with fishermen (and fisherwomen ). I have been on ifish for sometime and have made well over 300 posts but the climate is getting very political and there are a few there who believe they can dicate what is said by whom, and if you cross the line with one of the members of the clique, be ready for a wrath. I will read info, but will very selectively post on ifish.

This board seems to have much more class as I have been lurking for awhile. Seems very open and informative. Very cool!!

Thanks for letting me vent!

I just love it when people talk about what I am thinking! A thick skin is a requirement for any public exposure. Ask any politician or ex moderator.

In general the moderators have very little to do except read and laugh at Ifish. There are however a few whose every post needs to be read. They might be sending secret messages to Hez Bollah. There are a few who attract a lot of attention ........ Hmmmmmmm........because they want to.

That is the huge problem with stereotypes and generalities. You really don't have to say who you are talking about, they will know who they are.

I haven't been here for months. Some things never change and I haven't missed a thing.

With all this mention of crackers and whining and all that I suddenly am craving some James Taylor music. Yuck.

Hey P.P., you use the reference of Jimmy The Greek in your post. You say what he said was "inappropriate", not that he was wrong. Maybe the same thing applies here. The simple fact is, some people try to be politically correct and send a somewhat unclear response to things, others as Jim Rhome would say, tell "the ugly truth". Maybe RT can change his moniker to the "Ugly Truth" ;). I admire RT for not sugar coating everything. I may not always agree with what he says (in this case I do), but there is no question where he stands on subjects.

I've been elsewhere today and just logged on to the suprise of 50+ posts on this subject. That means the issues of centure (spelled censorship?) and delete button power abuse via 'selectivity' likely is as significant to many people as it is to me. Good. Maybe it will make a difference to the better for all of us involved in these 2 good fishing and lifestyle fun public posting forums that have become part of our lives. ...

As for you Pitch Pocket, you addressed me directly so I will answer you directly. To quote this 'ifish insider' with the disguised moniker (Gregg, Bill, Pete, Jen, SS, RW, or whoever? - note the question mark before you get your panties in a bunch ):