Grnhead & Sinker........ Very well put.... Both of you. It is refreshing and encouraging to see that there are still some of you out there that can appreciate honesty.

Hi Dave et All: Many replies ,some favourable but most against Daves policy. But not one which captured Daves point:he cant tell the difference between a mouth hookup and a foul hooking: and neither can you whoever you are.
With seventy years of salmonid fishing behind me I have seen every possible form of salmon strike behaviour,we give fish too much credit for always hitting their prey on the button. Underwater videos show that salmon miss their strike more times than they connect.When they do they will try to disable their prey with a tailwhack .I have watched Atlantic salmon chasing live prey and often they will leap and deliberately smack the target with their tails as the crash on the water.In the saltchuck when salmon attack a schol of herring they slash through it with teeth and tails disabling as many fish as possible .if there were a hook in the way they would be foul hooked as sure as fate.
If Dave were going out to deliberately snag fish he would equip himself with proper snagging tackle .He isent he is simply saying if he gets a foul hooking by accident he is simply keeping the fish. True by the regulations he should release it; but just why does that regulation exist? Simply to prevent people from being deliborate snaggers.Dave isent one of them ;indeed they are few and far between and usually operate at night with a pitlamp not in broad daylight.
So smarten up you too cant tell the difference between a good and a foul hooking till you have the fish in hand.Give Dave a break.
ancient steeheader coot

well said coot, i was wondering if there was anyone on these boards i`d like to fish with, i see there is now, also, by chance are any of you sterio typers in law enforcement ?

Things are so bad, how can you justify paying for internet? I can't afford @home. I'm stuck with modem at $15 a month.

Fishhead5

thanks coot, its nice to see another one on this board who can see the real world for what it is

Boater,
Did we run into each other together on the Lower Green (Duwamish) fishing by the bridge in Tukwila
back when the silver run was hot and heavy?

I think a whole lot of you guys are full of B.S.
I also think awhole lot of you guys just think your a better person than whoever makes a post on snagging.Or admits to that or lining or whatever.
I doubt if there is a single one of you that is perfectly moral,or lawabiding.This just gives you the chance to act like it.
Its just the perfect opportunity for you to feel better about yourself,because you just got the chance to rag on somebody for doing something you just wouldnt admit to.Whether its snagging or anything else.
I hope all of you feel better about yourselves now.
Now go look in the mirror,think about all the illegal or immoral things you have done.Then start feeling like you should.
A low life hipocrite.
I hope you feel better,I do

Huntnfish, How have you been? I was wondering when you were going to jump in on this one. I've got to say that I agree what you're saying... Its the same thing I've been saying all along.

Coot, You also make some very good points...... I guess that's what 70+ years of fishing experience will get you.

Hntnfsh,

You just catagorized a whole lot of good people as being lowlife hypocrites. You just made yourself look foolish!!! There may be a few that fit your hardcore negative outlook on life within this forum, but I am quite sure they are in the minority! I am against fishers keeping snagged fish. And as I said, I don't buy the excuse of financial hardship to justify it. Especially when you earn 35+K a year and have enough money for all the accumulated fishing expenses and internet expenses that could be used to put food on the table. Hear this dude - THAT IS NOT HYPOCRITICAL LOWLIFENESS to believe those CORRECT principles!!!!!!!!!!! Get a clue!

As for Dave, I have met him and overall he is not a bad guy. And I enjoy the wit in his posts. I just think he allowed the wrong rationale to invade his thinking and turn it into wrong justification in his mind. He is wrong and there is no getting around that. When the runs inevitably downturn the wrong 'keep snagged fish' rationale and action will still remain for those lawbreakers, and hurt our runs and sportfishermen's public image to the detriment of our potential fishing opportunitites! I hope he re-thinks his stance. And I hope you re-think your very improper condemnation of people who thought this thing out and expressed it correctly.

RT

I don't get it though. I'm not keeping more than my limit of fish, and I'm not trying to snag the fish. If I were trying to snag the fish, and/or keeping more than my limit, then I would understand the strong feelings.

Either I misspoke my situation or it was misunderstood. We are not destitute by any means, but at the same time it's difficult to let good food go back simply because I accidentally foul-hooked the fish. I will say it again: accidentally. Keeping my limit of three fish is no different than anyone else keeping their limit of three fish. I would have liked to have hooked all the fish in the mouth, but a couple of adipose hooked fish made it into the bag because I didn't want to waste food.

The hatchery got their fish, and then some. Upstream folks surely did well too from what I heard. My limit of fish did not threaten the run. If it would have, then they would have closed fishing the run long before my line went in the water.

I'm not up on Memaloose spotlighting the few deer that are up there. I'm not killing the alpha bull from a herd of elk on a game reserve. I'm fishing a legal stream using legal tackle and legal methods and keeping my legal limit. Accidental snagging does blemish the issue, but it does not make me an abuser of the resource.

Well I aint goin to any women's lib board and fessin up to wife beating.And not just because I would be lying. As far as I can tell- condescending view asked for, condescending view received. Be kinda boring and unrepresentative of the populace if we all chimed in with "it's ok, you just kinda broke the law".
**** if I remember right the last time I did something immorral or illegal (and yes, it has been a hell of a long time), guess what? There was someone to give me a ration.
Doubt if I am gonna feel like a low life for obeyin the law, though and especially not a "hipocrite" or a "sterio typer" I find that to be kind of a joke, sorry.

Dave, obviously you are looking at this situation thru a very narrow and self serving lens. I will copy your latest post above here and will use [these square parathesis] to interject my thoughts between your paragraphs - in hopes of coming to a better understanding of this important issue.

Your above post:

"I don't get it though. I'm not keeping more than my limit of fish, and I'm not trying to snag the fish. If I were trying to snag the fish, and/or keeping more than my limit, then I would understand the strong feelings.

[First off it's the law not to keep fish that aren't hooked IN the mouth. This law has to be in effect, adhered to, and enforced; or our fisheries would quickly go to chaos, lower runs, and close rivers! You are NOT privilaged to be above this much needed law Dave! And because your snagged fish aren't intentional, that does not justify breaking the needed law and keeping them just for you - or all the others that do this. And spare us the "I don't get it though" - you are plenty intelligent to "GET IT"; so quit insulting our intelligence and playing head games with us.]

Either I misspoke my situation or it was misunderstood. We are not destitute by any means, but at the same time it's difficult to let good food go back simply because I accidentally foul-hooked the fish.

[OK - it's difficult for you to let go of what is not legally or rightfully yours. Too bad you have such a selfish mindset. If you can't learn to hook fish properly - something that's not that difficult - you are just going to have to learn to deal with the difficulty of "doing the right thing". It's unfortunate that's so difficult for you. I would bet that you would be adverse to all people keeping all fish that were snagged - but not adverse for yourself to keep them! What made you so privilaged within your twisted mindset?!?]

I will say it again: accidentally. Keeping my limit of three fish is no different than anyone else keeping their limit of three fish. I would have liked to have hooked all the fish in the mouth, but a couple of adipose hooked fish made it into the bag because I didn't want to waste food.

[No different?!? Bullsh!t. Huge difference between legally kept fish and keeping illegally snagged fish, which often ruins fish number harvest management tools! And because of snaggers us sportfishers have curtailed seasons - so you ARE stealing our would-be legally caught fish.]

The hatchery got their fish, and then some. Upstream folks surely did well too from what I heard. My limit of fish did not threaten the run. If it would have, then they would have closed fishing the run long before my line went in the water.

[That excuse doesn't wash either; particularly in light of what I've already tried to bring to light for you. Excess hatchery fish are used very importantly for many things. The edible ones are sent to public food banks to help feed the needy (to which you wouldn't qualify for Dave). And the non-edible graded excess fish are used for such as 'salting' the watershed for their extremely important ecosystem nutrient supplying decay factor, which they now know is a major factor in trying to save native fish runs and to help the entire ecosystem; including tree growth in the raparian habitats (latest studies have proven these things). Any left over from that may be sold to pet food companies and the much needed revenue helps the very underfunded WDFW programs.]

I'm not up on Memaloose spotlighting the few deer that are up there. I'm not killing the alpha bull from a herd of elk on a game reserve. I'm fishing a legal stream using legal tackle and legal methods and keeping my legal limit. Accidental snagging does blemish the issue, but it does not make me an abuser of the resource."

[We are glad to hear you haven't yet typically evolved into an animal poacher too Dave; as many snaggers likely are. When you keep a snagged fish you are not keeping your 'legal' limit. Besides, you said you have only fished 5 times this year, keeping a couple of snagged fish - so now you are saying you are keeping limits?? And as clearly demonstrated above, you ARE contributing to abusing the resourse! The only way we can get around that is for society to ONLY allow Dave Jackson to keep snagged fish. Nobody else. Which in your narrow thinking somehow is the only fish you are considering as an insignificant impact on fish runs. How utterly crass and self-serving that mindset is. This wrong doing involves a lot more non-sportsmen than you. Give up the ghost!] >

With that all correctly clarified now, I still figure there are plenty of good guys on here that would be willing to show you how to catch fish legally. And in the actual case of lack of enough food, you have already received plenty of offers of food for you and your family.

RT

RT - that was so self-serving. so what if he hooks it in the mouth or outside the mouth and keeps the fish?? one fish has been harvested and it would affect the health of the run the same either way (one less fish)...which is nothing compared to the number of fish that end up in indian nets every year. (translation = the proverbial "drop in the bucket" analogy)

now, im not advocating snagging or any unethical means of taking fish...its just that every one of us is responsible for the decisions we make in life and we all will bear the burden of those choices. he already said he fishes with a license and legal gear in a legal manner, how far do you want to go with this?? should we call up the firing squad??

I'm a bit confused by parts of your post Aunty. Are you suggesting there are some members with adequat incomes here passing some kind of a judgement on anyone, as opposed to giving a rightful backed up opinion about snagged fish?

I also agree that if in a really tough situation, as you describe your friend's former condition, that people will do whatever they can to put food on the table. I hope we all would be that way; by trying all the legal means first before trying the most benign of illegal means within utter necessity.

Do ya think I can get away with keeping all the fish I catch, including snagged ones, and giving them to the actually needy would qualify as an exempt "Robin Hood". If so, gee maybe I'll try that out. Lots of fun. Naah.

KSR, clearly you didn't understand the content in my above post. And what you did tranpose of my opinion into your post is way off the mark! Try a re-read.

RT

Let me simplify things a little here.
First, nobody is perfect.
Second,We all do, have done,or will do something, that another person sees as illegal,immoral,or unsportsmanlike.
Third,none of us have been or will be in another persons shoes in any given situation.
Fourth,Its ok if people have different views on the same subject.
Fifth,It doesnt make us a better person just because we would behave differently than another person in a given situation.
Sixth,its better to change a persons ideals,by example, or a willingness to help, rather than ridicule,threats, or sarcasm.

I could go on for a long time on this one.And,yes there are a lot of good people with a vast wealth of knowledge on this B.B.And no,I'm not condemning all off them.But I really think that there are also a lot of people that post on here that live in what they think is a perfect little world.And that they are the reason its that way.Well its not.Your not,and some of you need to open your eyes to that.
We all need to watch what goes on in our own house before condemning somebody else for what goes on in their house.
If we all strive to do the best we can,and be the best we can be,then you would be amazed at how it will affect other people.
So how about if we concentrate on cleaning up our own backyards before we start cleaning everybody elses.
I catch a lot of fish,I catch them a lot of different ways,and if you catch them in a way different than I do.And you feel good about it.Congratulations.
Take that last paragraph however you like.I know what I mean by it,a lot of people will speculate on what I mean by it,Some will think they know what I mean by it,but as far as I know,I havent fished with any of you,so,until we fish together,and you know how I handle myself on the river,its all speculation.
I just try really hard not to judge somebody else,and hope that they try really hard not to judge me.
Now lets all quit *****in at each other and go rip some lips.

Just a thought here, is he helping the fishery any by releasing a snagged fish that is probably pretty beat by the time it is landed, and then catching a non snagged one to fill his limit?

Little ZoZo,I've been doing good,lifes good, fishins great,Ive landed more fish than I can count the last couple months,and also released more than I can count during that time.
Thats why I havent been posting on here much lately.
The only drawback has been that my arm is killing me,because of it.and I'm to stubborn to give it up long enough to let it get better.

I'm thinkin about hitting the sturgeon for awhile to give it a little break,before picking on the steelhead.
I hate to make choices like that.

[ 12-02-2001: Message edited by: HntnFsh ]

thats definately something to ponder over...a snagged fish released, possibly to die from its wound never to spawn, and another taken legally home for dinner...or just taking that first fish.

one fish or two fish that will never have a chance to spawn...

good question

This itself brings up an interesting point.
This was brought up awhile ago by someone. They'd seen some guys fishing a hole just stacked with fish and kept foul hooking them. They'd get the foulhooked ones in, release them and keep fishing for their "legal limit". Now what did more harm to this run? It would have been far healthier to keep their first 2 or 3(or whatever the limit is) rather than keep wearing these other fish out.

Now there are some highly respected, holier than thou people around here that condemn others for boating and drinking but he's always going on about his adult beverages at the takeout. Now this I have a real problem with, I'd rather have your drunk ass on the river where it isn't on the road with my wife and daughter.
All this proves is that no one is perfect and people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones!!!!