Who are the bogus clowns or clown in the WSFG dept
That are dictating this crap. And why? I know it has to do with wild steelhead escapment. This I do
know that for the past few years except for last
the sky has been full of wild fish in march and april. Im really begining to wonder how compitent
these people really are.
What gives here and how do they really know how many wild fish will return?
T

If you read the Post Intelligencer, there is an article today which describes the results of a review panel conducted by the NMFS. The review panel basically ripped the NMFS, the WDFG, and the various fisheries management personnel, inluding the indians, a new sphincter for managing their fisheries with no regard for good scientific techniques. The review panel concluded that the fishing levels that have been allowed in the Northwest are not biologically sustainable.

This has nothing to do directly with the C&R season, but it does suggest that the agencies may be running scared and perhaps overreacting to the possible low return situation.

Ed,
I believe they get their escapement numbers from surveying redds. Depending on water levels, this seems like an inconsistent way to get a good indication of run sizes. We can all agree that wild runs have been on the decline the last few seasons on the Sky, so maybe this isnt such a bad thing. Leaving the Nates alone for a few seasons could help things alot. Its unfortunate though...

If we have a statewide wild fish release, it might be wise to have a seperate liscense to fish the CNR waters, and that money can go straight to conservation(5-10$). I might be going overboard here, but a short test would be nice for the people who dont know how to release fish properly. For example: Dragging fish up rocks, netting fish, 5 minute photo setions, my little buddy sqeezes...etc

Hey Ed,

No use getting all worked up over it, it was closed last spring too, and probably will be in the forseeable future. Which leads me to my next question: How do you know the Sky wasn't full of natives last March and April?

When is the season going to end if there is no CNR Season ?????

There have been plenty of nates showing in early spring on the sky. Somebodies bogus math is not adding up here. I know it was closed last year but in years past it was rockin in march and april. There is know absolute way to know how many nates will return to one river and I think the fish and game dept is using junk science to dictate our fisheries.

Ed,

The bogus clowns you refer to are the WDFW fish managers at the Mill Creek office. I don't have the number handy, but you can look it up. Ask for Curt Kreamer; I think the Sky is still his territory.

The current policy is dictated by the Department's Wild Salmonid Policy which says there shall be no targeted fishery for a run that is forecast to bess less than 80% of its spawning escapement goal. The C&R fishery in March and April clearly targets the native steelhead run. The run size forecast last year and again this year is for a number that is less than 80% of the escapement goal.

You can disagree with the policy and try to change it. However, a line has to be drawn somewhere to conserve weak runs. No one I've discussed this with has suggested that 80% is the wrong place to draw that line. Can you suggest a better point?

Competence. Well, compared to what? Does closing a fishery for conservation imply incompetence? Incompetence and or policy intervention is what allowed fisheries to be open in the past when conservation was actually called for. As Silver Hilton's post indicates, science suggests caution in the face of uncertainty. But policy (or incompetence) has subordinated conservation in favor of harvest for far too long in almost all fisheries - worldwide.

Managing a salmon or steelhead fishery is like driving a car forward on the freeway using only your rear view mirror as your guide. The forecast for this year's run is based on the number of spawners from 4 and 5 years ago plus the average % of repeat spawners. So fish management goes forward with information only from the past, and none from the present. Information can be added after the fact. Harvest information from the treaty fishery is obtained after the fish are already caught. Recreational harvests (in a normal year that permits wild steelhead retention) are estimated based on performance in past years. And then the spawning escapement for this brood cycle is estimated by counting spawning redds in surveys that occur after the fish have already spawned. The only way to increase fishery management precision is to have the fishery occur after the fish have passed some sort of counting station, such as the Ballard Locks, Bonneville Dam, or certain test fishery areas with high correlation coefficients. The upshot is that no one knows with certainty how many fish will return. Given these facts, what action do you recommend?

BW, spawning surveys are influenced by water conditions, but there are methods to deal with that - unless a river is out during most of the spawning season. Again, science would suggest that the greater the uncertainty, the more caution in favor of conservation should be exercised. Also, I don't think a special license for C&R fishery participation would in any way result in improved fish runs. Putting some effort into angler education would probably pay the greatest dividends in the long run.

JR, if there is no C&R season, fishing will probably close at the end of February as few hatchery winter steelhead return after that date.

Sincerely,

Salmo g.

The bottom line is Curt and the other WDFW biologists have the best data out there. As difficult as it is for those of us who love the Sky spring season, closing it when the numbers are low is the best thing we can do to help the fish.

Now some might argue that the numbers are not low. Well if my success rate last year for January and February fish is any indication, they were in the tank.

With luck, the numbers will turn around and we will get our spring seasons back soon. Couple that with stopping the bonking December through February and who knows, we might get them back in there in large numbers in a few years.

Salmo thanks for your post, it was as always a refreshing and rational perspective on these emotional issues.

Duggan

I agree with Salmo and Sinktip on this one, the numbers for the 90`s were nowhere near the numbers for the 80`s. Which is when they started this CNR fishery. Bob H.

I agree with Salmo and Sinktip on this one, the numbers for the 90`s were nowhere near the numbers for the 80`s. Which is when they started this CNR fishery. Bob H.

I talked with Curt about this issue last year and he said that WDFW has no way of doing an "in season" stock assessment on steelhead. Therefore if the forcast is for poor returns then they should close the river. I think it is to WDFW's credit that this year they extended the wild steelhead release throughout the entire winter season instead of allowing harvest of wild fish through February like they did last year.

[ 12-13-2001: Message edited by: Beezer ]