have been to a couple of spots on the sky today.
have seen just a few fish cought.
water is very low and clear.
is it just a few fish left since the last rain or I am looking in wrong places?
as I understand they are hiding in the deepest pools or choppy riffles, right?
what do you think?

I think in the modern era of steelheading, and river salmon fishing, that on popular rivers there is going to be a strong thin out factor by the large numbers of good fishers, by the time it gets low and clear. And during the normal flows prior to the lows, the brats fly up to the hatchery fast. If the nate run is in you will have a few more holding fish that remain aggresive (use barbless hooks on them to make it better for releasing them). But what often may be left over are a few less aggressive fish that didn't bite in the better water color; and they are now even more weary in gin clear water. It's a challenging situation. Fish will hold in the water you described. Be slow, carefully smooth, and stealthy. In this scenario you need to use different things from the norm, that work in cold clear water. Smaller customized plugs, such as a size 50 Hot Shot in dark green metalic color fished a long way from your boat or waded position is one way to get the lathargic fish to respond. Another is to use a smaller stealthy natural cork float to fish a few patterns of jigs thru them, to find what they may want and/or to finally aggrivate them to bite. Before or after that try just a plain shrimp tail or plain small cluster of eggs under the float. ... May the luck be with you.

RT

Hi Rt et All: A great subject and a fine post by RT. These conditions ,low and clear ,are a challenge to all fishermen.In my experience this is the situation in which the good flyfisherman has the edge on the rest of us.
Several years ago I had the oportunity to watch a Scots gilly who had formerly fished competitively for Atlantics ;challenge two steelhead lying in full view in shallow clear water.
He approached the situation by first observing the fish, then he moved into the water directly above them in a small rapid about 40 feet away.
He selected an egg pattern of wool and a sink tip line. He made his first cast with a short dead drift and swung the fly past the nose of the higher fish. Rather than trying to cast again he made an upstream mend of the line and I saw the fly move back upstream of the fish sink slightly and then swing back under the pull of the current on the line directly in front of the fish. This time just after the fly had passed the fish he slipped some slack line and the fly swam downstream beside one of the steelhead. he jiggled the fly a little and then pulled it upstream sharply so that it passed close beside the fish. Just as the fly reached the steelheads periferal vision it snapped quickly at the fly and was hooked.
I have telescoped the descripion of this process ,actually many passes were required before the fish was induced to strike but what it suggests is the confidence and persistance the good fisherman must have and the technique and ability to place a fly or lure exactly where he wanted it to achieve success.
coot

I'm not an expert, and I don't know the Sky, but I did very well last winter with the low/clear water we had, fishing the Clackamas and North Oregon Coast. Far and away, float fishing worked best for me with 1/8 and 1/4 oz jigs. I cannot think of a single fish I hooked in a riffle. The best areas were current seams, around boulders, and deep pools. I believe riffles are best for summer-runs. I did take a few out of choppy tailouts last winter, but I wouldn't call it "riffly". Hope this helps.

thanks to all.
I have personally seen a steelhead taken from the head of a riffle.
And I've also read that trout can hold and be taken from riffles. and steelheads are kinda large trout, right? from reading I also know that steelhead doesnt like an open place and it's highly unlikely to find him in just a few feet of clear water where he can be seen.

but we are not talking about low and clear water on the sky anymore, it jumped up 9 feet in just one night
things get easier - let's welcome new fresh fish

I caught 3 this week on a home-made jig fished under a float. I made the jig on a 1/16 ounce crappy jig (some problems with the hook bending but never enough to lose a fish). I caught 2 of the fish in seems and the 3rd behind a log jam. To get the 3rd I flipped the jig just outside the eddy created by the log and he came from deap with the jam to grab the jig. I'd say the most important thing for clear water is using small gear and finding water that hasn't been too heavily fished.

I agree with Coot. The talented fly fisherman has the advantage in low, clear, cold water...smaller drab offerings (or even smaller bright offerings)-on light leaders -swung verrry slowly- are the ticket.

I believe that fly fisherman are able to fish more available water in low and clear conditions as well.

I've always believed that flyfishing is at a disadvantage during super low flows of winter. It is much easier to swing a fly in the softer water that fish lay in in the higher water then the heavy slotty chops that fish hold in low water. In the summer time it is a totally differnt story...

During last winter I found many fish in the heaviest water I could find. Any water that had lots of chop and was atleast 6"'s deep was fished.

The old rule states that the lower the water the higher in the hole you fish and with last years record low water years, I was fishing at the very very head of the runs.

Its difficult to generalize about winter flyfishing. On good days when its sunny and the air temperature is 5 degrees warmer than water temperature;flyfishing can be more effective than bait. The presentation should be much softer than with bait or lures,and leaders without weight can be worked into very small slots and potholes. If you can induce the steelhead to turn and follow the fly and if you can keep the fly speed low you have a descent chance of getting him to strike. Few flyfishermen realize that you can stop a fly in its drift and indeed work it back upstream with proper line mending. Too many flyfishermen think that the purpose of mending is merely to keep the line straight and tight. Not so; Good line mending requires slipping line during the full arm mend which is realy an extended arm side roll cast. Often two rolls in quick succession are reqired to move the heavy section of the line into a position where the current acting on the line will drag the fly sideways and upstream. While a single pass of the fly may not induce a follow ,when the fly passes several times in quick succesion it may well induce the fish to follow .
A similar technique can be employed by two baitfishermen using wool and corkie drifters. They work their way downstream side by side casting ther lures about ten feet apart .In about 90 percent of the cases it is the second lure closely following the first which will attract a follow and a strike
However on cold or overcast days the fly is a second choice. About the only solution I find effective under these circumstances is the addition of bait to the fly. small pieces of worm,maggots or Scots Dough can activate an otherwise zippered fish.
While I have no real proof I firmly believe that the slow leaching of pickling salt into the water can spark the normal saltwater feeding instincts of a steelhead.
coot

I should have been more specific in my above comment. I did not hook a single winter steelhead last year in a riffle (or what I consider a riffle). I love fishing riffles for summer runs. When the water temp dips below 50 degrees, I think steelhead prefer slower water. Also, I agree with the comment about higher water being better for flyfishing...at least on larger rivers in pursuit of winter steelhead. Last year, with the low water, I tried to flyfish my favorite hole on the Clackamas (wading), but couldn't reach the fish, even with a spey rod. The fish were easy pickens with my float rod. When the flows are higher, the fish hold closer to the bank and can be reached with the fly gear. I think low water is friendlier to fly guys on smaller rivers and for summer-runs.

I agree with your post WC. I would add that the flyfishing closer to the bank during high water shouldn't be too murky for trying winter steelies (obviously). But I also prefer the medium rivers and mostly summer steelhead flyfishing. I just don't get whazzup with using 14' double handed spey rods to fish large cold colored rivers for winter steelhead!?! I'm sure there are some guys that genuinely enjoy that challenge, for some reason which I don't understand - I see it as a cumbersome handicap to enjoying catching fish. But I also suspect some of the 'uppity fly elistists' take on this cumbersome low catch rate freezing activity for some kind of ego or false sense of 'superiority' above gear anglers? I don't know. I bet I might hear from a few LL Bean/Norm Thompson catalog clothed guys for that take on it. I hope they would rather explain what that's all about, rather than flame the questionable dis. ... I do love to flyfish for summer steelhead, although I do less of it because the wading gets to my bum ankle. But I like a great feeling rythmic casting 9' for 7 wt. quality flyrod (custom GL3 blanked flyrod I'm using lately). In analogy, those big spey rods seem similar to carrying a big ladder out on a basketball court to climb up to shoot over guys?!? Either that or I'm in need of "culturing".

RT

There are guys that just enjoy the most challenging aspects of any sport. They want to catch a fish using methods that not anybody can use to catch fish. It's not my bag, but that's what gives them the "fix" they need from fishing.

Some guys get the "fix" from elbowing in at Blue Creek and bagging a limit of 3-salt chromers among the throngs of other guys. Some guys get the "fix" by hiking their a$$ far from roads and getting into fish without seeing another angler. Some guys get it by using fly gear in cold, colored water in hopes of hooking a hog on fly gear.

Face it, we're all junkies, dammit. Get your fix however you can, because it's better than anything out there (at least anything I've tried ) and you won't get arrested for catching your "fix". "Hi, I'm Dan and I'm a fishaholic."

Hey there RT, nice to find you active in a BB. I have not been on this BB for some time. But, back to the topic! I have caught many winter steelhead over the years in crystal clear low water.
#1. Know the river your fishing. From past experience you will know where they are laying and plan accordingly.
#2. Stealth. Schlopping down the middle of the river gets you no where but down the middle of the river.
#3. Small bait sizes and increase leader length.
#4. Don't be afraid to try new techniques! This year I finally got on the bobber and jig/bait bandwagon and last weekend on a small coastal stream, I had great luck with that method. Put on Bobber....Throw bobber in water...watch bobber sink....fight fish. Flat out it works!
#5. Last but not least. Enjoy your surroundings and friends. These are the best of times and make memories for those dog days of summer....

rhansme

Practice on smaller rivers. Get some polarized glasses. Walk and spot. Notice where the fish are. Usually that info can transfer over to larger bodies. It has worked for me


I think.

Now now RT your just letting your prejudices show;you dont really hate flyfishers with spey rods that much.You just think they are slightly touched in the head.:<0)
Actually I enjoy being able to change methods when I get bored and like to fish different methods for different kinds of water.
I have solved the rod problem by buying 14ft speyrod blanks with an extra butt section. I build one full length butt for flyfishing and shorten the second butt by 2' to make a 12' baitcaster which can handle both float fishing or bottom bouncing using either a baitcaster reel or a centerpin. Not the perfect setup but it saves carrying two complete set ups on the river.
I`ll admit flyfishing with a double handed rod looks like wrestling with a boa but once you get some experience it can be relaxing. The real beauty of a spey rod is your ability to mend line and control just were your fly goes something you cant really do with a 9 ft single handed rod.
Of course one of the added benefits of steelhead flyfishing is that you get the opportunity to tie up your own flies ,perhaps to design new patterns. I have to admit that figuring out new ways to tie on a small piece of wool doesnt excite me .
coot

HI DAN. Come on in. Who told ya about us?

Howdy Ray. Good to see you posting here too.

Hey Coot, I don't "hate" any 'fly geeks'. I just have respect for the ones who mainly enjoy their sport for themselves without a care in the world about other fishers. It's a great recreational sport and I like it a lot. But the ones who prefer to have people watching them flycast and then figuratively look down their nose at non-fly fishers (Oh ya - there are a few of those types around), then yuk. It seems their day just wouldn't be complete if they didn't get to demonstrate their casting prowess to some onlooking fishermen. The funniest case of that scenario I've ever seen was last year from my jetsled. I was fishing with Jeffhead, Dan S, and Osprey on the Cowlitz up by Blue Creek. On one of our trips back to the top, across from the Blue Creek cluster****, there across from that mess on the south side of the river is 2 fly geeks spey casting in this jumble for winter steelhead. One of the guys was very good at casting the thing; it was 'art'. But in that scene I would have bet my sled he was there to catch 'gratifying looks' his way more than to catch fish! I parked my sled a few yards downstream and got out a bag of old golf balls and a 3 wood and whacked a few long ones. Art! Not. ... BTW, I tried Gizmo's 28 ft. long , ok 14' spey rod, casting it from a shallow waded postion on the NF Lewis for summer steelhead one time, on one of the larger holes. I'm a husky tall guy and have no problem casting the huge thing; even one handed on medium distance casts - it just isn't a pleasing experience to me. That it is for you and others is completely fine with me; I just can't figure out why, but that's my prob. And I haven't done it long enough yet to be coming across as dissing guys who like spey rods (please excuse it sounding like that - it's really the latter of those 2 'tudes described above that I was dissin). For me it's sort of like not understanding guys who like to be horse whipped by girls wearing skimpy black leather type outfits - I shouldn't knock that scene without trying it first, right? But I prefer comfortable and reasonble things in life - usually. ...

Now I'm just kidding around with this following exagerated analogy, so lighten up guys ....> Back to that 28' rod .

@--------------------------------------o~~~~~~~~

If GLoomis, Sage, Scott, Winston, Orvis, Shakespear , Lamiglass, or whoever put out a super ultra light 28 ft. spey rod, we wouldn't even need a reel with it. Just tie a 15' leader on the end of it. On medium rivers just hang it out over the other side of the river and slowly drop the the rodtip down stream and then swing it over to your side. You likely could cover the tailout from the top of some holes with the thing. When a steelhead hits the fly hard as usual, you may even feel it. With this no-reel long limber rod it would just flex and follow the fish around, quickly tiring it out. When ready, just lift on the superspey firmly and it would fling the fish a few yards into the woods for ya. ... For big rivers you would probably want their 35' one piece version (comes with it's own roofrack carrier). ... For the spey purists who want to fish smaller steelhead rivers on rare occasions, they could use the smaller 28 footer (they could only afford 2 of them at over $4,000 apiece), by stepping back into the woods a few yards to fish the narrower slots there. Got it all covered. And what an angling accomplishment! ... Just being silly now - but when I have a dream about spey casting, that's the dream I have.

RT

[ 01-08-2002: Message edited by: RT ]

Hi RT: He he! I enjoyed your black vision of speyfishing,and I know you arnt predjudiced about flyfishing or even about spey casting. In fact I think that if you descided you wanted to take up the gentle art you would be amongst the best.
Spey casting is a little like learning to ride a bike ,if you start when your a kid you never really forget even if you occasionally fall off when crossing a creek as I do.
I started with my grandfathers 3 pc greenheart as a kid .It used to hang on nails on the summer cottage verandah. Those old greenhearts had no furrels and used carved splices to joint the rod and were taped to hold it in place.
Like you I am somwhat annoyed by the fervour with whitch North Americans have taken up Spey casting. It has become "the thing" in fly fishing. Unfortunately they have chosen to ignore the ancient concepts of the sport and try to invent some new gimicks . Most of them including their gurus dont know their asses from a tin
teabucket.
I was amused by the antics of one Jim Green who used to be a rod demonstrator /designer for
Fenwick. He watched my Scots buddy spey casting with a rhube goldberg spey caster we had fashioned from bits and pieces of Loomis blanks because fifteen years ago there were no spey caster graphite blanks available over here.He descided that this was something new and exciting so he set to work to build some speycaster rods. He dident consult my buddy who was a former spey casting champion of Scotland ;he just flew by the seat of his pants. The rods were awful. Then he went to Scotland and came across an ancient reverse taper butt greenheart rod and descided this was the way to go. He built some in grahite and they were abominations.
Thats how it goes these afficianados fart around and prance and posture without knowing any more about spey fishing than they do about horsehockey.
I dont blame you for being somewhat pissed off.
coot

Dan: Good post. We've all gotta enjoy life in our own way.