Our family pet of nearly 5 years just snapped at my 2 year old. Being that he is a 120lb rottie, this little snap sent my son to a plastic surgeon late last night. He was a fraction of an inch from taking his eye out.

My son (Aidan) has about a 4inch cut on the top of his head, a 3 inch deep cut on his eyelid, a 1 inch cut at the eye brow and a few scrapes and scratches (just from one swipe).

Over the years he has been very good around kids and is a terrible watch dog - not a mean bone in his body. Basically just a BIG silly puppy. But this can NEVER happen again.

I want to shoot him (and came very close to doing so last night - but I don't really have the right gun for it) but my wife just wants to give him to a family without small kids. Maybe we'll just drop him off at the shelter. I don't know.

What would you do?

Regardless of how you do it, it would be bye-bye doggie if my dogs pulled a stunt like that. My temper would probably cause lead poisoning....

That dog should be put to sleep! It has the taste of blood now! What about the kids who live next door to the people who end up with this dog? Sooner or later it will happen again. Be responcible and make him go night, night!

Bob D

Ya wanna borrow a gun, I would have your dog put down,if it were my dog he'd already be dead you can never trust a dog like that with ANYBODY again, I hope your son pulls through o.k.

Save your self some money and go with the lead injection! hope your child is okay!

Dog should be destroyed quickly and humanely.

Phish
Glad to hear your son is ok. A biting dog is not aceptable around any kids .. But you need to consider was it the dogs fault ..Did the child step on him or what .. .. sounds to me he has been a good dog to this point from what you said.If you do decide to get rid of him take him to the vet..

If you don't have the right gun, a properly applied baseball bat will do the job. Don't pass the problem to someone else, it WILL happen again. Your son is very lucky the dog didn't ragdoll him.

Steve

Have gun, will travel.

I hope everything comes uot all right for you're boy.I had my hand peeled back when I was a kid and it took me a couple of years to get over it.
I own two of dogs of my own so the idea of having to put one away sinks in.
Can you ever trust that dog again?

I would bring it to the vet and have it put away humanly.
Might even think about getting another dog of more friendly breeding to help you're poor boy deal with what just happened to him?

I got to agree with Saltine......batter up!....swung on and belted....deep to left field....going, going, goodbye Rottie.

Whether provoked or not, the consequences of having a dog that size attack any family member are too risky to keep the dog around. I wonder if this kind of behavior isn't more common when the dog has been a family member longer than the child. If you and the wife are having difficulty deciding what to do with the dog, maybe one of these dog training centers could help you reach a decision.

Canine Behavior Center 1-888-226-4638

Academy of Canine Behavior 1-800-335-9267

Family Dog Training Center 1-888-226-9054

I hope your child recovers quickly. Good luck!

I had a lab do that to my nephew.
The first ting to do is dig a hole out back big enough to bury him in.

In my opinion, the dog should be dead. All it takes is one .22 bullet.

Matt

Thanks for your input.
Most of you agree with my line of thinking.
As for the bat or 22 - would you try to take down a black bear with that (this is a very thick skulled 120+ solid muscle animal)? I need something that will be instantaneous. I have a 22 and a 12 guage. I would have used the 12 gage - but I just sounded too messy. I'm going to borrow a buddies deer rifle or 357 and do it right.
And i'm not taking my dog to a vet just have them charge me 100 to 200 (vet and disposal fees) bucks for taking care of my problem.
And I don't care of my son was jumping on him - he knows better to even look funny at the kids. After he did it, he was instantly hiding in a closet...

That's going to be one big hole to dig...

I agree with CedarR about seeking a solution from a professional type,if you aren't sure.If the solution to put it down is the answer,then I think you should consider doing it humanely.If you are serious about a bat,or are too cheap to pay a vet or an animal shelter to put an unfortunate end to your pet,you shouldn't own any animal.You might not feel quite as satisfied as you think when you see the animal face an agonizing bloody death at the hands of someone it loves for doing something for which it DID NOT understand the consequences of.Do it humanely!

Phish,
Unless you want to get this over and done with quickly, I may know someone who might want the dog. The person I know is a very good pet owner and has always had Rotts. I understand if the decision has already been made.
Best Regards
GoForChrome

I appreciate your concern about taking care of this humanely. Believe me, I have experience in this area. (Don't worry - the bat is out of the question. If the incident was any worse, then i'd have done it with my bare hands)

I used to work as a vet assistant and had to put a few animals down. The procedure is very quick and humane. The problem I found is that most animals KNOW about the Vet hospital and that is one of their biggest fears. Killing a dog that is scared to death and often peeing on the ground when you try to restrain and inject the needle hardly seems humane. (except to the elderly couple in the lobby - who did not actually see it happen)
On the contray, my dog loves to go on walks and run in the woods. On such an trip and instant tap (by the proper calibur gun) to the brain would be very clean and very humane in my book. And I have done this to a 13yr old German Shepherd a few years ago who was in a lot of pain and could no longer walk (just about 20 feet before resting, then another 20, resting, ... you could see the pain and frustration in her tired old eyes).
It was not a pleasant experience - convulsions, some blood, ect, but instant and done out in the woods where she loved to be. It was the right thing to do (if it were me, that's how I'd want it done).

goforchrome - email me if you find out anything further. I'll wait a day or 2. Thanks.

Thanks Phish.My only concern with using a bullet was that you understood that it must be done properly.Anyone who has see an animal that was shot in the head and did not die would understand the need for enough gun and proper bullet placement.

I agree that some animals are terrified of the vets office,if I must pay to put my animal down I will pay for the vet to make a housecall.
For those that can't afford it,Snohomish Co.Animal control charges $20 dollars to put the animal down.

Good Luck to you and best wishes for your son.

The .22 was just a suggestion, but I don't think it would be a problem... I know .22s are what are used to slaughter cattle, etc. Guess it just depends where you shoot the dog.

Matt

Same thing happened about 14 years ago with my son. 140 lb dobie didn't like him sticking his fingers up his nose and snapped at him. Had his head in his mouth and drew blood just above his eye and the back of the head. I took the dog into the laundry room and beat the bejeezus out of him. I felt better anyway. He wasn't a bad dog, we just could not trust him anymore with the baby.

We have some friends that live out in the woods who's older kids were needing a guard dog. He was a prize dobie and they were happy to have him. We shipped him off the next day. He lived a long and happy life and was much calmer in the woods than in town. They finally put him down about 6 years later after he developed displasia.

Point is, the dog doesn't have to die. He just has to be around larger kids or no kids. Do you know if the baby had dog snot on his fingers? Seriously, I'd get rid of the dog. If you feel you have to shoot him, it's your dog. If he is a loved one and not generally mean, he might make a great pet for someone with older kids, and you could visit him. We enjoyed visiting ours.

phish phreak i understand where you are coming form but what the [Bleeeeep!] dude seriously! do you really want to shoot that dog that you have had for 5 years. Is that gonna make you feel like a man? i seriously doubt that after you shoot it you will be happy. why dont you take it to the shelter. if you can take an animal out that you have had for 5 years and just flat out shoot it, you have some issues. i understand if it has hurt your son but please dont go out and shoot it. GIVE IT AWAY! I have a rott/lab and we had that problem when he was a puppy snapping at my brother and sister. the other day my ndog snapped at me for trying to move him while he was eating. i hit him on the nose and grabbed him by the scruff of the neck and yelled in his face for about 30seconds and i gaurentee it wont happen again.
Tyler
P.S. What was he doing to provoke this attack.

[ 01-08-2002: Message edited by: Tyler Celli ]

Human life is much more important then any dog's life. Think about it...you are young and dont have kids (neither do I) so maybe you just do not understand where he is coming from.

If I had a dog and he snapped at a child of mine (if I had a child) my two options would be the ones that PhishPhreak put forth. The fact is that once a dog snaps like it did, it could do it again without warning.

The best thing for the dog and for the community is to put it down. The last thing you want to hear is about some kid getting killed because he was attacked by this dog some years down the road.

So unless he can find a rural home without children for the dog, the dog should be put to sleep.

Phish,

A sad situation all the way, but I'm with you on the walk in the woods thing. A LR22 hollow point, right between the eyes is all it will take and if the dog has never been threatend with a gun, he won't know enough to be upset by it before it's too late.

I worked on a dairy many years ago and we always put animals down with a 22, cows, steers, pigs, and yes dogs too, never had a problem!

Sorry for your kid though, hope he's better soon.

, sad thing for the kid, now he'll be scared of dogs forever..

Just point the gun in the general direction and BLAP,BLAP, BLAP... ARRRRRRRRUUUUHHHH
Or better yet, play a nice game of fetch with some pressure sensative C4.

No, really. I've had to put a few dogs down in my time and it's not the funnest thing to do.. But it comes down to paying a couple hundred bucks or give him the lead treatment for about a quarter. Or give the dog away to someone so it can happen again..
Keith

Phish,

I certainly understand your dilemma, and after what's happened in my household over the past month I think I can offer you a little insight.

About a year ago we adopted a beautiful, brillant 5-year-old German Shepherd from a man who felt he had to give him up because the dog nipped his 3-year-old daughter. Well, the dog behaved perfectly for us ... until just after Thanksgiving . In a period of 10 days, this friendly, even-tempered dog bit my wife three times, seemingly unprovoked. Fortunately none of the bites required stitches, even though we did make two trips to the emergency room.

My initial thoughts we along the same line as yours -- I had to get rid of the dog. But my wife, who's the daughter of a zoologist and has been around animals -- at times herds of them -- her entire life, was determined that we were going to do everything within our power to keep from putting that dog down. When possibilities of placing him elsewhere disappeared, our vet referred us to an animal behavioralist working with the college of veternary science at Washington State University.

After reviewing our case study and observing the dog first-hand, the doctor stated without hesitation that it was a dominance issue (she said that pure-bred dogs, like ours, are particularly susceptible to this type of behavior). Our dog had apparently bonded with me (not surprising, since I had spent more time with him) and was simply exerting pack-mentality dominance over my wife, putting her in her place, if you will. The doctor said this can be a real problem with dogs and young children, particularly toddlers in the early stages of walking.

She didn't pull any punches -- up front she told us that the safest, easiest thing to do would be to put the dog to sleep. However, she thought with proper training, and precautions, we could not only avoid destroying the dog, but could develop it into a loyal, submissive and obedient pet.

So that's where we are now. The carefree life our dog once knew has become a strict regimen of adherence to commands, leash-walking and kennel time. So far he has responded beautifully, and the doctor is pleased with our progress, though still cautiously optimistic. We're hopeful, but we'll just have to proceed and see what happens.

Being that we have no children, my situation is much more simple than yours. But if you maintain any hope of keeping this dog in your family I would ask your vet to put you in contact with an animal behavioralist somewhere in your locale. It is not an easy route, and it's certainly not cheap
... but in our case it was the only alternative shy of putting the dog down.

I hope this helps. I you have any questions feel free to send me an email.

Best wishes

JEB
SRBC East

There are many reported instances of non fatal headshots.I have seen one.Very,very messy.Skulls can be hard and lots of angles complicate things on occaision.A 22 may work most of the time but,a few examples is insufficient to justify the risk when a more appropriate solution is available.

Hopefully Phish can find the dog the right home with owners that understand the risk.I think that would be great.If not,he is still responsible for protecting his family and controlling the dog.

Please let us know the results.

Phish, We had our family dog {inside friend} of 15 years put down, liver failure. It's hard to do. I think I'd have a close friend put it down next time if I couldn't handle it. You don't know of someone with a gun? Know any Steelheaders? We all have guns. I agree, don't pass off a biter to another family. Would you want someone to go through what you just did? No, of course not. If I lived down there I'd help you out. Anyone live close to Phish?

DEAD DOG!!!!!!!!If my dog did that to one of my children he would have been DEAD on the spot...No point in blaming it on something ..the fact is human life is WAY more important than a dog!! BAR NONE!!!

phish,
im with the majority on this one, if youd rather take him for his last walk ive had too on a few dogs always used a 22 pistol headshot never had a problem also in snohomish county the pound will put one down free if its a biter personally id rather do it myself, hope all turns out well for your son the physical scars can be repaired i think the emotional scars will need some work also
good luck mike

A .22 will be plenty to put down a rottie. I have killed scores of 250 pound hogs, and a few cows with a .22 and .22mag. Picture and imaginary line that crosses between the base of the ear and the eye socket. Do this with each ear and eye. Where the two lines intersect, is the magic spot. He may yelp once, but it will be lights out, and he'll be dead on his feet before he can blink.

Shot a 250 black bear with a rifle in the same spot this fall, and his head was like a bowl of rice krispies. If you use a caliber higher then a 22, be careful shooting him at close range, or you may end up getting hit with fragments of lead after the bullet passes through his gourd. If you use a rifle, you are better tying him up, and greasing him with a high shoulder shot. The impact will shut his nervous system down pretty quick.

If the dog did that to my kid, I would have zipped him ASAP, and not given a rip about his feelings. As much as I love dogs, I have no tolerance for them ripping on my kids. Do not give this dog to someone else. You are just asking for someone to get hurt/killed, and getting your rump sued. Especially if you know that this dog has attacked someone already. Hate to sound like a mercenary, but unfortunately, I have sent lots of critters to meet their maker. Good luck, as I know it won't be easy.

I will go out on a limb and go the other way, it was not the dogs fault he felt like he was the dominate party. How many humans have done worse to a child and not been killed? How many mothers have killed their children and are free today? Call the shelter I have heard they have times when you can bring your pet in to be viewed people for adoption. It save the adopties the big fee and gives you a chance to "sell" your dogs good qualites. I had a friend do this and it went well. Put a sign up at the store or something, the dog does not deserve to die.

Awwwww, poor kid. The time to act with emotion was at the scene. Now you have to act like an adult. Baseball bats, bare hands and shotguns will leave more ugly memories that will hang in your mental attic for years. Good Gawd, what is with some of you guys? Yik....I cringe just thinking about some of those suggestions. But then, I am just a dumb gurl

Either shell out the money for a vet, take it to the shelter with a note that says "Child Biter", or take it on the walk in the forest. But you really cannot give this dog away. If it ever mauls another child, you'll have yourself to blame. If I took such a dog and it attacked my son, or someone elses child, I'd look to you to blame ( that's human nature, to blame someone else, you know? ).
Give your son a big hug. He's going to need a bunch of them for awhile.
diana. Mother of a 10 year old boy.

I think that its best to get rid of the dog now. Get off the computer find a shelter or a Vet
first thing in the a.m..Or you con go outside right now and just get the job done. That a baby
killer you've got. I am so tired of reading about
small children being killed by Dogs. No
second bits when it come to your child or any child.

Thanks everyone. I appreciate all your input.
If I would have been home at the time, I prabably would have killed the dog on the spot. As it was, I was just getting off work when my wife called. I met her near my work (which was on her way to the hospital) and drove like a madman to the ER. Taking a toddler to get stitches is a very traumatic thing for everyone. My wife does not handle it well at all. They have to probe around and inspect the wounds while the child screams and pleads and twists around... That's actually the easy part! Fortunately, we saw a very experienced plastic surgeon and Aidan was doped up for the actual stitches. We got home at about 1am - all very worn out.

Here's where we stand right now:

1) My wife has called a rottie pure bred rescue and is waiting to hear back from them. They handle much worse cases than ours with success. You just have to know what you are getting into.
2) if that does not pan out in the next few days, then this weekend we will need to take a drive out into the woods.

Thanks again!

PS - Aidan is doing well. He is acting pretty normal, even though his left eye is so swollen that he can't see out of it. The hard part is going to be keeping him from breaking open the stitches or getting an infection.

With some of the replies you might as well whack em with your computer!
No but on a serious note, do the right thing and put him down so it does not happen to anyone else.
Your child is very lucky!
The dog just made his last mistake, now do what you have to wether it is at the vets or in the woods, be responsible. I know you will.
Good luck and remeber you are doing the right thing.
Peace Superfly

As long as you hit him right a 22 is more than enough.
A 22 is what all the farm slaughter guys use on pigs and cows.
Not sure if you've seen them slaughter a pig, but after they bleed 'em and gut'em they hang them up and cut them in half right down the spine. You get a nice cross section of the skull, brain, and spinal cord. Anyways what I'm gettin at is that I've seen pigs with skulls an inch thick that were put down with a single shot from a 22.

Don't give the dog away to some shelter. Who knows where it's going to end up next. Yeah whoever they give it too might be good but what about after that. Gotta think about they're kids, and neighbor kids, and friends kids.

I am sorry to hear bout your sons injury, I carry a nice reminder of a dog bite as a youngster that i recieved from vicious dog a knarly beagle of about 15 pounds. s I am told now tht my dad wanted t tak the dog to the woods to let the dog witness the death of my dad, of self inflicted gun shot wounds for the careless act of leaving me in a position to do something I assumend was a ok thing to do pulling on the beagles tail as hard as a 3 year old could, beacause a properly trained dog, no matter the breed should still not be put in a position to have this happen. somehow have a hard time bliving that a dog even poorly trained is suddenly going to just snap at a child for no reason at all. You fail to fully explain the circumstances. Again with the breed you chose to have as your pet which we all know that means a responsability to properly care for, provide for and allow to be afforded a decent kind of life remember you chose the dog the dog did not choose you. I think it is poor judjement on your part for allowing yourself to bring a child into your home with a dog that has the reputation and physical ability to injure your much loved son in that manner and the potential for whatever reason put an end to your sons young life. Would it not have been better for all to take the dog toa no kill shelter, friends place, rott rescue of Wa state prior to bringing your son into this home. At that time you could have avoided the stigma of saying you now have a child biting dog that is never going to have a chance to get placed in a decent home. Instead you would have been able t say Great family dog gentle lovuing needs good home can no longer keep due to birth of young son and want to be extra carefullof my childs safety. We allknow how kids can be and no one would think any less of you for doing it. It shows your love as a father and your respect for the breed of dog you have and its potential. I mean no disrespect for you and your family and to anyone on this board for their opinion. If you decide to get rid of this dog do it properly it had no idea of the magnitude of what its actions resulted in. You can email me at fishnjunkie@webtv.net, and i will take your dog myself and find it a good home, all that i ask is that a medical history and shots are updated. I hope your son gets well quickly, think dad needs to take son out to the rivers and hook into a nice brat and watch him forget about his injury for at least a few minutes.

Dear P.P.,
I am the daughter of the zoologist mentioned by my husband in a previous posting. I am ambivalent at times about keeping our dog, but he has responded remarkably to our "treatment plan". We are guardedly optimistic that we can keep him safely in our home with a lot of work and patience.
The behavioralist we visit says that toddlers are especially threatening to a dog's pack mentality simply because of the way that they are built (all torso) often unsteady on their feet and unpredictable in actions. I was bitten in the face as a toddler by the dog I had until I was 16 years old, I had stepped on her swollen teat in my nice hard orthopedic shoes when she was sleeping. I would have bitten me, too! My father wanted to shoot her ... she lived until the age of 17 thanks to my mother, who was also nursing at the time and refused to allow the dog's demise.
Consider rescue agencies or childless couples who are knowledgable and willing to deal with a possibly aggressive dog. It doesn't sound like this is the case with your Rott, however.
I would encourage you, before making any decisions to contact W.S.U at 335-0711 (if that number is incorrect, call information for Pullman, WA and ask for the Vet Clinic). They do telephone consults for a marginal fee.
They have been helpful to us and our dogs. Our "problem" dog has been a delight since beginning this program, the onus, as always, is on us.
Good luck to you, I'm glad your son is going to be OK and I hope the same for your dog.
Tracy
Please contact us by email if you would like further info!
PPS. PLEASE go out TODAY and buy a "Promise" or "Gentle Leader" brand harness-type collar and put it on your Rott. Have the people who sold it to you help you fit it. It works as kind of a modified muzzle. The dog can eat, drink, fetch and all that good stuff but it does keep him from gaining a good purchase if he does bite again. Also reinforces his submissive position in the pack. Our dog HATED it for the first few days, but the change in his behavior was almost instant, (like within 10 minutes) he immediatly began responding to me in a more reasonable and submissive manner. It's a 10 dollar investment for peace of mind until you can place your dog. You can get them at most pet stores, possible grange supply stores.

[ 01-09-2002: Message edited by: JEB ]

Phish,
I talked to my buddy who has Rotts and he wasn't very sympathetic to the dog...He agrees that you probably are prolonging a problem if you try some type of rehab.
I'm sorry for the trauma that this has brought to you and your family.
It would break my heart to have to make that decision for my dog.
It DOES disturb me to see how eager some board members are to discuss the method and equipment to use("Sheeatt Bubba....Git out yer Desert Eagle!)
I see it as a loved and trusted family member who made a big mistake.
Best wishes for your sons' recovery.

I'm a vet. Don't jump to a decision while you're red hot with emotion. One reason you shouldn't shoot your dog is because it is illegal. Any animal that bites someone legally becomes a rabies suspect and should not be killed so that the animal can be monitored for a period of time for progressing signs of rabies. Rabies is not common in the NW, but the law is the law. Variations in how to deal with observation/quarantine exist state to state and since I'm in Oregon, I will defer you to your vet. Besides, a bullet to the head is how we delt with these problems 30 years ago. I do think that euthanasia is appropriate in some of these instances, esp. when children are involved.

Wild Crome is right!

Remember one thing, you picked the dog, and the breed, he didn't pick you! There are lots of people out there who want and desire the trends that your dog has now shown! They are a breed that has been known to kill, harm, and mangle mankind many times before, so why did you bring him home?
Why did you pick him, his breed? They are not known for their loving, kind, attentive needs to children.

The dog has now developed it's bread problems. That's a no-brainer for this breed of dog! So punish the dog if that makes you feel better, or spend the money and have it put down in a humane way.

Cowlitzfisherman

Sorry for the bad news.....but, you are right the pooch needs to go! I know thats a hard thing to deal with , but life happens! I had a 6 yr old bird dog that I witnessed bite the neighbor kid for no apparent reason. It was very hard, but I took him for his last ride and paid the hospital bill. Do what it takes buddy but find a better family dog....Good luck to you!

Phish,
This thread is chock full of opinions on whether you should kill your dog or give it away or lock it in the laundry room or whatever. Only you can decide what you are going to do with the dog and I will not presume to give you advice on this matter. If however you do decide to do the deed yourself, please do not shoot him in the face. Feel with your fingers for the point at the base of the skull where the spinal collumn enters the cranium. Place the muzzle of a small calliber gun in contact with this point and squeeze the trigger. The dog will never know what happened and the mess will be very minimal.I speak from experience on this. I have had the unpleasant responsibility of putting down a number of dogs over the years.
Hope this helps and also hope the boy feels better soon.
Grumpyr

What's wrong with shooting the dog "between the eyes"?

Matt

Hey matt, would you want to look at your family dog after you blew its head off? that horrid image would stay in you mind forever.
tyler

Between the eyes is messy. Grumpyr is correct. The base of the skull. This is the best spot to do it with very little mess and no gunshot noise. Me and my partner found this out on our last meeting with Jimmy Hoffa. Right behind and under the ear.

[ 01-09-2002: Message edited by: G-MAN ]

To all you He man CNR fanatics. Its truly pathetic to me to see the numerous just shoot the fuc--- dog posts. You guys will sit here and whine all day, and threaten human life if a person bonks a wild steelie, legal or not. You sit back and do the trailer trash talk, the hillbily crap, and all of you guys start ranting about baseball bats, and 22 slugs. Your talking about what you yourself at one time surly said was your best friend or fishing buddy, this pussy who makes a decision to leave a five year old rott with obviously not suffeciant supervision that put his son in harms way and your response is kill the dog. To the contrary i think the owner is the one due a bat to the head. How dare you jump on this board and attempt to gain sympathy for your son when you and your wife are the responsable parties, I would like to hear all you tough guys when your dog of five years who has been your partner is playing with the neighbors kid and since we have not really heard why the dog actualy snapped i asume its because they dont know because they werent there. however if your neighbors kid yanked on your dogs tail or some other threat to your dog and your dog takes a chomp on the kid, how many of you he men are going to allow your neighbor or anyone for that matter kill your dog in any manner ecspecaially a 22 shot or a bat. You guys would bawling like kids at school. What age bracket do you suppose its only worth a kick to the head for a snap to that kid? What if it was an adult is my eye not as important as your kids? What happens if its not a rott but a poodle or beagle, you gonna bash the head in of your wifes 5 year old poodle because it snapped at the kid. You know if this wasnt your kid but the kid was mine I would sue you and you would be facing criminal negligence or child endangerment. You hear what i am saying you are the most to blame for this accident.How much information did you research prior to the childs first arrival in your home. I just spent about ten minuteds on the web and found numerous helpful tips about the breed you have. How much time was spent coming up witha plan to assure your childs safety when only one parent was home to supervise .I know you read up about the potential for this same exact thing to happen. did you allow for an emergency plan in case of a emergency you were slack in supervision of your son around a potential danger, Do you let your kid out on the street without you. how about by the pool with no supervision . You have the means to rectify this situation without having to kill anything. properly supervise your son when around the dog and go back to being a good pet owner like you were last week im sure you love the dog and the dog and your son will most likely withnd on the carpets when hes a bit bigger.I notice you have not responded to my offer of taking the dog and placing it in a good home so i asssume again its the heman wanna kill thing by the way how many cars do you have in he yard next the plastic pool, and auto parts, lying in the

Fishjunkie-
Have another!! And go hug another tree! Likely, you're a California native that wants all killing to quit, ya know, all hunting!!
Just guessing,
Keith

[ 01-10-2002: Message edited by: stlhdr1 ]

I don't generally post here too often, but this topic has drawn my attention. First off, I sincerely hope your son recovers fully and quickly and isn't left with a lifelong hatred or fear of dogs because they truly can be "man's best friend." However, I also can't help but to agree with at least some of what 'fishnjunkie' is trying to say. Granted, the guy has a hard time writing and spelling, but the point he is try to make is very valid. A Rott is NOT bred to be a family dog. True, many people have these dogs and they end up making great pets. However, dog breeds have inherited characteristics that don't just go away. Raise a lab as a family dog and take it hunting later, and the instinct will be there to chase and retrieve birds. Bring a Rott into a home and raise it as a family dog and the instinct to attack and bring harm will still be there. You house is full of dangers for small children and generally you take precautions to keep them away from your child. I assume you don't leave poisonous cleaning agents on the floor for him to get into. However, if you leave the child alone with a Rott, to poke at him, pull his legs, and bite his ears, the dog's natural instincts may very well come out. Is this the dog's fault? In my opinion, NO. If you had a truer family dog, maybe so. But with a Rott, I think you are inviting trouble unless you never take your eyes off the two of them. It's becoming easier and easier for people to never accept responsibility for anything, and this very well may be another example. Please seriously consider finding a good home for the dog before he gets the slug.

BEFORE you think about giving the dog away, let me tell you what happened up here in Lynden this summer on Father's day. This family responed to an ad for a free Rott. They wanted the dog even after they were told the dog was being given away because he bit. {according to the Humane Society,
Rotts bite less people than your common household pooch} they took it anyway. Next day he bit a kid in the face. The child was flown down to Harborview Medical Center where he underwent facial reconstruction for about three weeks. The State got involved and sued the family for taking in an aggressive animal. It's not nessarily the breed that's the problem. I had four Dobies and they never bit anyone. My friend has two Rotts and their little girl rides them like a horses. They have never snapped at her. They are "Best Friends". Sometimes dogs, all breeds, get mean and you can't do anything about it. It's sad because everyone loses. The owner loses a friend, not to mention all the time and investment involved, and the dog loses it's life. If it lives, chances are pretty good it'll happen again.

[ 01-10-2002: Message edited by: G-MAN ]

Black Dog

I couldn't agree with you more!

Just like i said early; "you picked the dog, and the breed, he didn't pick you! There are lots of people out there who want and desire the trends that your dog has now shown! They are a breed that has been known to kill, harm, and mangle mankind many times before, so why did you bring him home?

Why did you pick him, his breed? They are not known for their loving, kind, attentive needs to children."

Cowlitzfisherman

is the taste of the bait worth the sting of the hook????

[ 01-10-2002: Message edited by: cowlitzfisherman ]

FISHnJUNKIE, BEFORE You Prejudge,(all of us "Hillbilly, Poor White Trailer Trash) openly slam and belittle someone on this forum, PLEASE, write your response, if your upset take a minute and think, do I really want to say this just because I'm PISSED OFF and crush this guy (who feels like crap anyway) and who has taken his time to ask us for advice??? Don't prejudge until you have all the facts, ask. I don't prejudge you. I won't assume your IQ is below 40 because of your terrible spelling, ect.(You were probably too mad to spell check) I don't think you're a "LOW LIFE SKUMBAGG" just because you list your interests as, Fishing PORNO Fishing PORNO. I'll assume you listed "PORNO" as a joke before I refuse to develope a friendship with you because I don't want a "Child Molester" around my little kids. This is a Great place to get info, learn some new tips and make some friends. It is also very easy to make alot of enemies here. PhishPreak has an E-Mail if you want to send him anything, like maybe? an apology for sending a heated reply before cooling down? We all do it once in awhile. We type and send before we think. One of our many faults being "Human".

[ 01-10-2002: Message edited by: G-MAN ]

According to a study done between 1979 and 1998 by the CDC, Rottweilers ranked #2 behind pit-bulls on the list of fatalities from dog bites by purebred dogs in the US; however, from 1991-1998 Rotties accounted for MORE fatalities (33 to 21) nationwide.

And, of course, children account for the overwhelming majority of these fatalities.

Dave you are right, "Fatalities by Pure Breds" But the number one at the top of "Biters" is your family Mutt type, Benji. The CDC is that the "Center for Diease Control"?

I am sorry to hear about your child.

Sinker said a .22 caliber is plenty. I will confirm his statement as we've slaughtered cattle on our farm for years. The rottweiler has a very hard front skull plate and the bullet will get in there and rattle around a bit, and turn the brain into jelly. Or you can place the barrel inside his ear and bang.

Personally I would have found the nearest jug of gas and book of matches.

Also, see if anyone around you is Cambodian. I guarantee you they would take it off of your hands.

If someones kid bites someone elses should we kill the child? If a child stabbs another should we kill the child? In my opion yes, but we don't we try rehab first. Same respect should be given to a pet.

Dont shute youre dog its not humain!!!!!! have it put to sleep you are going to have to live with youre self and if the shot isnt just right it will suffer.this comes from experience.you still care about this pet regardless what it did and it will probably do it again .I feel bad for you!! what a cruddy spot to be in.t

I wouldn't let the perfect 20/20 hindsight bother you too much,Phish.There are a lot of other folks that own different breeds that find themselves in your position.You obviously didn't see this coming.

You make a good point about the dog not understanding its limits with the kid.It still presents a danger though.

For what it's worth,I would follow the same course of action that you have chosen.I would use a different method,if I had to put the dog down,but otherwise I agree with your decision.

Good luck in finding the dog a proper home!

Ill make this short and sweet! SHOOT IT !!!! its done it once it will do it again!

Most people don't realize that Rotts by nature aren't attack dogs. Originally they were herd dogs. They came to Germany by way of Russia when they herded animals there.
My sister had a Rott that was a big baby. That thing would go into the chicken pen and herd little tiny chicks around. Damnedest thing I've ever seen.
Hey Y'all referred to the .22 scrambling situation. This is why the mob prefers a .22 for hits. No mess and it scrambles them good.

As far as Rotts being #2 on the list of killing kids, there's a ton of them out there and they weigh about twice as much as most kids.

Rotts for the most part I've seen are big babies. Same with pit bulls. I've never seen so much energy as you see in a pit bull. But there's IDIOTS out there (like 2 of my neighbors) that live on 1/4 acre lots and insist on getting a big dog (both Australian Shephards in this case). Makes me want to go over and smack the neighbor. The one behind me broke a board on the fence and repeatedly came over to chase the cats that hang out in the backyard. I popped it with the BB gun just as the woman was hollering at it to come home.
The next weekend it was back again, this time it growled at me. Came in stuffed the .38 in my pants and told the wife I was going to get firewood. As I'm walking towards the back door, I look out and see that they're finally fixing the dang fence.
So close.

What a bunch of MORBID SOB'S, who find it so easy to say just kill the dog, shoot it between the eyes (to messy),shoot at the base of the skull, use a baseball bat ETC. You picked the breed, it's your responsibility to train it either by a professional or yourself if your qualified, which I doubt. It seems dogs are like shoes if you don't like them or the way they fit, throw them away or in your case kill him, that's real sad. Next time you get a dog (and I hope you don't) get a stuffed one at the fair they are guaranteed easy to train.

I am sorry to here about your son; my son had a similar injury when he was 2 years old. I was in line at the store with my son by my side and the guy in front of us swung his arm back (by accident) and stuck the hot box of his cigarette in my sons eye, creating a quick trip to Emergency room. Gee, should I have decked the guy with a baseball bat? No it was an accident.
Hope you can find a nice home for your dog, let your conscious be your guide.

I apologize for my reluctance to return any response, to the remarks,bashes,and the concerns over my ability to spell and puncuate properly. In my original post i noted I am on a Web Tv system and it sucks. I cant print,download,stream video,or even see any small print on any website I cannot see any of the icons. I also am new to the web, or computer in general. I find it strange that you guys would be worried, about my spelling, or any aspect of my writing skills or IQ. This is not english 101, this is me voicing my thoughts about something i am passionate about, Not to justify the spelling, but i was in a hurry. Look at the time i posted. I went over to the OP, to try and bang some chrome. The Duc, and calawha, were not in good shape at all, ventured to the smaller OP streams, and found some fish. I am leaving again tonight or early am for a few more days. As far as my IQ I gaudge my IQ on what i said at my last job. I QUIT. Im 35 years old, retired, Happily married, wife supports my fishing craziness, I go to the OP minimum 5 times a month I fish the upper stretces of certain systems and release every thing i get, Only because i hit Sitka 2 times yearly, and am not a big fish eater. I have deckhanded on a marlin charter in Kona, seiner in SE alakaa, Ive lived all over the world,and fished in europe,alaska,montana,oregon california,idaho,marathon key florida,jersy coast, the point is my IQ and spelling are not relevant on this board,( I hope) I didnt mean to come across as a no kill supporter BLACKDOG. I just dont think killing your family pet for a first time snap at your child is a normal or moral thing to do. I did not mean to be so agressive, and i am sorry for that. Phish Phreak Sorry Man, I was out of line and i am sure your a good pops, Kids are hard to monitor 24/7. The comments were made out of my personal love for my dgs they mean the world to me. Also the fish porno remark in my profile was meant as a joke and i tell my wife that my STS magazine is my hustler of fishing and the cover gets my juices flowing more than a centerfold. I am a laid back hard core angler who can be found by the trail of good green and elk trails that take you to the promise land of fishing.

Fishnjunkie, I can tell alot about you already, not because of what you do or have done, but the fact is when you've done someone wrong you admit it and are willing to apologize. Not many men would that. I'll bet your a good husband, father and would be a great friend to get to know. Welcome to this board.

Riverliver- This is an animal we are talking about and it sounds like to me an unpredictable dog at that..Get off your frickin soap box!!"save all animals " Its just that an animal..and yes if it was me and someone put a cig in my son or daughters eye accident or not you bet the SOB would have hit the floor...And after that the boots would be applied.That is being CARELESS plain and simple if someone is gonna have something that can harm others in there hands then they should be carefull and be left responsible for there actions.

This dog will do this again and since it is an ANIMAL I believe it should be destroyed.There is no sense in taking a chance with this ANIMAL and having it do this again or even worse..This ANIMAL has harmed a human!!

"SEEK AND DESTROY"

I bet if a cougar had attacked one of your children while they were out playing and the childs face was all tore up and the cougar was sitting on the swing set watchin you, you wouldnt run in get a gun and blast the [Bleeeeep!] According to your post it should run FREE!!!
I CALL BULLSHIAT!!!

[ 01-12-2002: Message edited by: Timber Man ]

FishnJunkie - thanks for the appolgy. I do understand where you were coming from.

I am a good pop and a good dog dog owner. Unfortuneately, a mistake was made that can't be undone, but that does not suddenly turn me into a rotton parent or reckless dog owner. (or the dog into a vicious killer) What determines that is how I respond to this situation.

Sunday night I'm giving my dog to a fellow board member who does not have kids and does have rottie experience. He clearly knows what he's getting into, and wants to give the dog a chance at another 5 years of a happy life.

My son looks a lot better and still loves our yellow lab a lot. We plan to keep the lab, and will ensure that he is not put in the position to make the same mistake.

I can't believe I'm stuck at work this weekend!! Hope you guys are having a blast out there as I write this (or are resting sore arms on the couch).

-Chad

I know I'm a little late and what happened has probably already happened but I had to say to Lead slinger that this sight is for MEN who fish and hunt and you are just a PU**Y that needs to go hug a tree or something. If the dog is flopping around after you shoot it in the head shoot it again. It does suck to have to shoot your dog but it is the right thing. It is still just a dog and the kid is much more important.

i dont think hes trying to say dont kill it. i think hes trying to say just dont shoot it or hit it with a bat. I think it should be put down humanely or find a new home, and not hit with a bat ect. I think we all need to realize that dogs were WILD animals at one time and still have some of their natural instincts like protecting food or territory. have you ever noticed when a dog goes to lay down it turns a circle or two before it does it? that is a natural instinct, they do it to push down the grass or brush that they are sleeping on, they dont need to any more because they sleep on rugs or beds or whatever INSIDE our houses but they still do it. I'm not trying to make friends on this post and am not trying to make enemies either, I'm stating my beliefs. I'm sorry your son got injured. Cowlitzfisherman i know some people that have 3 rotts and a baby boy. these dogs are the SWEETEST NICEST LOVING dogs you will ever meet. i think they get their bad rep from their size and the damage they can do because of it...
tyler
P.S. BTW how can yall be so sure the dog will do it again. I may be wrong but i dont think you ever said why your son got bitten.

[ 01-12-2002: Message edited by: Tyler Celli ]

I hope all is well with your son and the dog. I think your decision as to how to best protect your family, and be a responsable pet owner at the same time was one that did not come easy. I am glad i will never have to face that situation, It seems that my little swimmers are doing the backstroke and cant make it to the spawning grounds. Thank God.. I love kids but i love the freedom more. I look forward to more positive fishing posts as this one provided a huge variety of responses, A learning experiance for sure. G-Man Thanks right back at ya. If i had just one wish it would only be to forever fish.....

You are correct,Tyler.I hope the right home is found for the dog,failing that a humane end for the dog is better than one that seeks to satisfy anger or Ripalips attempts to prove his manliness by shooting (someone elses) a dog.Anyone who thinks that shooting a pet is related to manhood is a little lacking in my view.
I suspect Ripalip is merely trying to start trouble.He might have done a little better if "he" wasn't afraid to say "pussy".

Tyler, if that last question was directed to me ("BTW how can yall be so sure the dog will do it again?), well, I can tell you that I'm sure he will never do it again to anyone in my family. And to me, that's what's important. And I trust the gentleman on this board who is adopting him will be responsible enough to ensure it does not happen to anyone else.

Sometimes a dog looses it and attacks. When this happens, it is qite common for them to become repeat offenders - and usually the breaking point comes a lot quicker the second time. In our case, it was not an agressive attack, but a nip out of self defense or some other reflex action. While it is quite possible that we could have learned our lesson and kept the dog - just focused on some heavy training and took further precautions with the kids, it is just a gamble I can't afford to take - especially since I have a second son who was just born in October.

PhishPhreak GOOD decision. i'm glad that you gave the dog away insted of killing it. i know it must have been a tough decision to you, but i think it was healthy for you and the dog to do what you did.my best wishes to your son and family and i hope you son has a healthy and speedy recovery!
tyler

im sorry i know this is over but heres one thing you have to remember that dogs are inbred. say a owner in the 1940's buys 2 purebred pups from the same littler and decides to breed them, brother and sister, they get a good 5 years in and on their last litter the owner keep 2 pups, a brother and sister, and they get a good 5 years in and so on and so on. if being inbred can make a person mentally unstable imagine what it can do to a dog over all those years. also who knows how many times the dogs were inbred before the owner in the 40's buys them? (i've seen some people that were inbred in goldbar and it was not a pretty site, one stole some of my buddies fishing gear and she almost beat the s#it out of him)next time we all buy a dog go to a animal shelter or make sure they are not inbred a whole hell of alot.
Tyler
P.S. I'll shut my mouth now

PhishPhreak,

Sam is currently snoring on his bed behind me. Dogs are getting along well, no fights yet. I think things are going to be just fine betweent the two of them. Going down to the lake today to give the hounds a bath.

Sandshrimp

Thanks Sandshrimp. It was nice to meet you and your wife. Good luck getting him out of the lake once he decides to get in (: