(I know this one has been on the board before-but its high time.)

Or should I say guys that cant fight. Amazes me that guys think they need to pack a gun on the river. Definately a sign that the guy is a wuss. Makes for a guy to be all talk --"Im not scared of "so n so" I have a gun"

If you need to pack a gun go hunting.

thats all I have to say about that

The reason is very simple.

1. We have the right to pack.
2. An armed society is a polite society.
3. The ability and willingness to fight is usually related to blood alcohol levels and personality disorders.
4. Fist fights are more likely to get you killed than backing out of a situation with your hand on a holstered gun.

Call me a wuss but I will live alot longer as an armed wuss. And I usually don't even pack. Doc

I don't fight. I must be a wuss. But, being the wuss that I am, I don't go around looking for trouble or fights on the river. I mostly go there to fish and get away from yahoos that think they are not wusses.

Won't say either way if I pack heat or not. Not too sure I'd recommend anyone taking a swing at me, though.

Nice post Coho. :rolleyes: Trolling??

I do pack, I don't pick fights (last time I got into a fight was in 6th grade and I didn't start it), and I've had to pull my weapon twice. Once as a civilian, once as an officer. No shots fired, both guys went to jail for a long time. Much better than me being dead for a longer time.

Are there some boneheads out there who shouldn't pack. HELL YES! The same can be said for drivers who shouldn't drive, boaters who shouldn't boat, fishermen who should take up needle point, and some members of internet chat boards who should just stay on the sidelines and not bring up such inflamatory posts.

I have a great attitude towards life, but I also take full responsibility for my safety, and my family's safety. Prepare for the worst, hope for the best. That's my attitude.

I don't want to return to my rig when some tweaker is breaking into it and not obey the first rule of a gun fight. Bring a gun.

Maybe you should take a look at how you view life. Instead of knocking someone for a choice they make, worry about yourself. Must be the Liberterian in me rising to the surface. Don't tread on me, and I won't tread on you.

There is a great deal of responsibility that goes along with carrying. I accept it, and I don't look down on folks who choose not to carry.

Have a nice, and I wish you well.

Very well said dogfish i agree 100%

As you know if you want to pack its your right. But sitting back thinking about how many times I've seen a gun out on the river. None. I wear my helmet and steel armor while at blue creek, I see the additudes fly, but even those who are packing are not waving them around. As for 99%+ you couldn't tell if they were or not, unless its one of those big Dirty Harry jobs Just my .02

Let me just ask those of you who do carry firearms WHERE THE HELL YOU FISH!! Hopefully not the same places I do! I certainly wouldn't feel safe fishing around any of you, knowing that at any time you could pull it out on me and take me out if I did something that pissed you off. Now, I can totally see packing heat into the deep wilderness fishing areas where you could be stalked by a cougar, etc. But, what business do you have bringing something like that down to the local river or lake? Just gonna bust a cap on whoever picks on you? Don't get me wrong, I'm no "take away the guns from the citizens" person. I believe everyone has a right to own a gun if they want to. But to bring the damn thing fishing with you? What's the world coming to.

I'm with Dogfish

Excellent answer and a thoughtful response

Fishing's supposed to be fun isn't it? Maybe I'm just very opinionated on this subject because I've witnessed one of these 'bad situations'. If I remember right, a guy's fish was stolen and he blamed another guy for stealing it. When the other guy said he hadn't touched the fish, the first guy pulled a .45 pistol out of his jacket and stroked it. Stupid. Totally f*cking stupid. What are people thinking! Luckily nothing happend that day, but something could have. This same type of situation could happen again in the future and what if this time the guy with the gun is a little more steamed and doesn't think before he does something. Then what. "One goes to the morgue and the other's in jail." Sad.

A lot of debate can come from this post...

Personally I don't pack unless I am in Alaska or remote B.C. (bears). However, there were a few times I wish I had here in Washington.

1) I have seen my truck broke into while returning from the river. Nothing I could do. 2 to 1 situation.

2) I was fly fishing for Chums in a well-known estuary and some idiot was casting Buzz Bombs 100 feet in 3 feet of water (snagging for sure). The BBs kept landing within 2-3 feet of me each time. I tactfully approached the individual and politely asked him to be more thoughtful and careful. I moved to a different location and within 5 minutes he was standing in front of me- same thing. I approached him again... he said next time something comes out of my piss flaps, he was going to kick my a$$... Instead of round 3, I left for the parking lot. Called WFG and reported the snagging and incident...was told to call the local law enforcement. Apparently, there is nothing WFG can/will do for snagging Chums with BBs. Law enforcement never showed!

.... would you approach an individual(s) who wasn't within the regs without heat? One never knows what the other guy is like..

I, for one, will always walk away from a physical confrontation before starting one (unless I have no choice). Doesn't make me a wuss... However, I would be a little more confident approaching the matter with more of a well place tone if I was packing.

Downriggin'

KB,

I agree that it is a shame that some people have to pack heat while fishing. That being said...My fishing partner carries and I have no problem with it! None! I know that he is safe. Just like Dogfish said...some people shouldnt pack just like some people shouldnt be boaters or drivers. I know that it is on a different scale...obviously. He and I never muscle our way into spots with it! That would not be tolerated whatsoever, it would be reported in a second! However, There have been times when people loose their cool and start getting very upset and somehow regain control of themselves as soon as they see the S&W revolver on his hip. Amazing huh? We do not usually have to say a word...for some odd reason they tend to let things be and all of a sudden we are friends again! What right do we have to bring a gun with us down to the 'ol fishing hole...The Second Ammendment...that's what right we have!
Also, I sure as heck wished that I had a sidearm when some A-Hole broke into my Jeep while I was fishing and took all of my fishing gear from the back! I dont think that he would have run too far if a gun was pointed at him...and I have every right to do that!
KB, this isnt just geared towards you, I apologize if it sounds like it...not my intent...it is intended for all of the Nay-Sayers. The day I turn 21 I am getting a handgun...and I will be packing on the river...but I believe that it is MY responsibility to be educated on my handgun so I will have taken ALL of the classes before I make that purchase.
I do wonder of course though if someone else is carrying a sidearm, are they as safe and as careful as I am? I sure hope so!!! My humble opinion.

-Coot

Guns are for killing.If you hunt great, good for you.I dont think any of us have the power to decide who should die.YOU DO HAVE THE RIGHT!and I do not think that right should be taken away I would fight for that,but hand guns have one use,to kill other people, what kind of a jack ars needs one to go fishing!!!!!

Ive seen many poeple down on the cowlitz packen heat that,s there choice I personaly only in my boat, when Im fishing from the shore ive got enough stuff to be packing around{fish that is}.
Ive never had to pull nor do I ever want to Im there to fish and have a good time. But if the time should arise I will do what it takes to protect my family and I.

Yes, I guess I can see it now. Having a gun with you while fishing is showing who's the boss. Lookee here everybody, I got a gun, who's the man now? Kind of like beating the crap out of that poor fat kid on the playground back in the 4th grade, wouldn't you say. Makes a lot of sense. Again, nothing personal.

Most individuals that have concealed weapons permits never pull out their gun. We are educated in What is lawful and right. The redneck that pulls it out to show power or intimidation? This is why I conceal while out fishing.
I hope in my life time I never have to pull my gun, But when I do it will be to save my life or maybe yours.
Tight Lines

Fool

I usually carry only when I am fishing far from home.

You normally will not see people waving guns on the river because the rule is "if you have to pull it you should use it".

Heck, my gun has come in handy more times at the ATM machine than any other time. I love it when people (bums) appear out of no where just after you take money out of the ATM machine.

i am personaly against handguns for my own use.I think they are generally speaking very dangerous.if you are capable of safely caring one, then by all means have at it. I've fished with lots of guys, including dogfish, that pack. i have no problem with that. i always carry a rifle in remote areas for survival purposes, because i think they are much more effective.
the best way to avoid confrontations with rude fishermen is to fish where there are no people.

Coho, I pack a tater gun!

KB,

Reasoning with you on this situation may be like a hunter trying to sway a PeTA person into going out on a duck hunt, but I love challenge.

I am sorry that you ran into a jerk. Okay? Most responsible folks keep their firearm concealed. You wouldn't know if I was packin', even if I were dressed in shorts and a t-shirt.

Anybody who uses a drawn firearm as a way to intimidate someone else is a criminal. That is unless the one carrying the firearm percieves the person they pull it on to be an immediate threat to their life, or the lives of those in their immediate vicinty, or they believe that person is about to cause them grave bodily harm.

It is lawfull for folks to carry a firearm while fishing, no concealment necessary, but again, with most of us you would never know we had a gun.

The best way to diffuse a situation is to walk away. Downriggin was on the money. No fish is worth someone's life, but there are times when you can no longer walk away. I've been there twice, and I'm still here because I had a pistol.

Anybody who does carry, and invites confrontation should not carry. Folks who would walk away, they have the right attitude.

So in some ways we agree. Jerks should not carry, but not all who carry are jerks. These folks who are jerks are the exception. The reason you don't hear about the rest of us is because we're not the exception, we are the rule.

Andy

Dogfish --- Yeah, like he said. Smart guy.

Obviously we have many reasons for packing a gun while fishing. Yes this world is full of fools, growing up and fishing with Dad I do not recall him saying “and son never----never forget to pack your heat”. “OK Daddy”. What this place has come too, when you need to pack a gun on a fishing trip. I realize the obvious—remote areas. But, for someone to have to hide behind, I think that’s plain weak. No I do not go out picking fights—I have a very upbeat outlook on life Dogfish. I have not come to battle with anyone on the river that I have had a gun pulled on me, but I have heard people brag that—I PACK. I think—No you are not cool-you must be a wuss. Are there enough freaks on the river that you have to feel so protected, damn you better start packing at your kids little league games. Its almost smarter to wear a bullet proof vest while fishing, maybe that will be my invention-a bullet proof fishing vest with all the pockets and accessories that you need. Front and BACK protection with a “Make my day” sticker on the back. Yes, I own guns which I use for hunting. I’m just baffled. I realize this topic was very touchy and will delete it if things get out of hand.

Dogfish—you make some good points regarding manners , and responsibilities that go with carrying the weapon-yes its USA and we have that right-cool with me—like I said there is a definite exception with some that they think it gives them balls they need and feel they need to boast.

Otis---right on at least I can eat them taters

Ok that’s is all I have to say about that

jett'in fool, well said, i to pack have for 10 years, have yet to have to pull on anyone, i don't fight but will if i feel for a the right reason i believe education is the best bet, i have a family to protect as well as my self, and unfortnally the world today is full of some uneducated people who don't know how to act, so i will not be the down fall of those people, sadly enough this is the real world, will help when i can but also know when to walk away

You can bemoan "what things have come to", but that hardly means things haven't, indeed, come to "this". I don't pack heat because I'm pretty confident in my abilities to avoid a situation which would call for a piece, but you never know. Like bardo, I've decided that packing isn't in my, or anyone else's best interest.

However, like Andy (Dogfish), my partner almost always packs his piece when we're fishing. Does it bother me? No, because he's well trained in it's use, and I feel that if he did pull it, I'd be glad he had it with him. I figure, until he shows some irresponsibility in it's handling, I have no reason to get wound up about him carrying.

Gee, bardo............if only ALL of us could fish where there aren't any people. We don't all have helos, you know.

I am with Dogfish, Jett'in Fool, and Easy Limits......The reason we carry a gun (conceled) is to not only protect ourselves, but our families from the scum you cannot walk away from.

The day you need your gun, and use, may be one of the most unhappy days in your life, but your family will be glad you did...

Pack it, great..............Pull it, use it.........

Why does packing heat make you a wuss? I just dont see it. The only reason for shooting somebody is to protect life. Can you protect life when you need to without a gun? Maybe, maybe not. Its not even legal in oregon,(dont know about washington) to display a gun if you have a concealed cary permit. So ask them if they have a concealed permit, if they say yes, report them if they are waving it around. The way it was explained to me during my concealed carry class is if you have to pull a gun and you dont use it you are gonna go to jail. So make sure you only pull it if you really need it. Some people pack all the time. It is our right, and I dont see anything wrong with that. How in the heck are you supposed to know when you might need your gun? Are you less likely to need it fishing then going to the movies? Just when is it ok and not ok to carry? If its a one on one confrontation, ill take an a$$ whipping before id pull a gun. But if they were armed and i thought my or someone elses life was in danger id protect that life by whatever means i had. probably with a 9mm.

my 02, thats why people get consealed weapons permits because thy fell confident in there own judgment in knowing when to use and when to walk the ones that don't are the reason everyone else does

You pack heat while fishing for the same reason you would pack heat anywhere. To defend yourself and/or others. Just because someone is fishing doesn't mean they're not a total whack job. KB, are you saying that people shouldn't bring a method to protect themselves while fishing? How about in other situations? What's the difference?

like any thing else you don't play by the rules you pay the consuquenses' you pack heat and play by the rules no consuquenses you have the upper hand plain and simple

danny boy, you can bet your ass that i'm going to pack one huge gun this fall when we go to the babine. i just spent an hour with your mom,and bill planning the trip, and she says she might take your place and try out her new fly rod. you'd better start training your replacement

The world according to Dan:

1. Grandpa gave his life so that people like us could continue to enjoy the freedoms the founding fathers carved out for us. I think the right to keep and bear arms should be completely protected. No, Charleton Heston isn't my president, but he is right....

2. Having said that, I also agree that with such a weighty right comes an equally weighty responsibility. There is no excuse for bullying with firearms. There is no excuse for carelessly leaving one around where a child can find it a have a tragedy. There is no decent reason to ever try to intimidate or act macho with a firearm of any type. There is sometimes a bona fide use for protection (check out the column in every edition of National Rifleman). Choice number 1 would always be no confrontation. However, I'd rather my wife shoot some ******* that tried to rape her than have her be unarmed.

3. I do have the same pet peeve Coho has WRT people who feel the need to brag that they're packing heat. That's scary to me.

4. I guess guns aren't much different than cars to me: The fact that some people are absolutely idots with them doesn't mean that I am unsafe with them. I wouldn't vote to take away your car because some other idiot got behind the wheel drunk.

WITH RIGHTS COME RESPONSIBILITIES. Ask my kids.

Seeking to intimidate someone with the fact that you are packing heat, in the absence of a threat is sufficient evidence that you are not responsible enough to be trusted with a weapon, in my opinion. It also will cause you to have your carry permit removed immediately, if that fact is brought to the attention of law enforcement officials.

I have a large number of firearms that I collect and keep for sporting purposes. I often carry for protective purposes when in bear country, typically Alaska. I sometimes carry (legally) when in the habitat of other dangerous animals. I leave it to the observer to deduce when that might be.

And don't try to harass my wife. She's a good shot, too.

I'm not one to pick fights. If something came up, I would just walk away. Injury is not worth any fishing gear.

My opinion is don't pack unless your going into a deep dark wilderness area.

Why people pack heat? Just start this thread to get your answer. Security,safety, and protection.

Matt

Come fishing for salmon in the remote BC rivers and you'll know why we pack heat.Can you say Grizzly?

Well said fisherdan. I concur 100%
Training is the key, and with training one should learn responsibility. A weapon is not a toy to be used carelessly for intimidation; it should only be drawn to protect life and limb.

Coho,
I agree with Silver Hilton
Seeking to intimidate someone with the fact that you are packing heat, in the absence of a threat is sufficient evidence that you are not responsible enough to be trusted with a weapon, in my opinion. It also will cause you to have your carry permit removed immediately, if that fact is brought to the attention of law enforcement officials.
Most people are responsible enough to know this and just like driving down the freeway there will allways be the one who cuts in front of you no turn signal almost clips your front end that will piss you off. Owning and carrying a firearm is a constitutional right and even though there is a few people who misuse their rights most of us respect and obey the laws. If you have a problem with someone who is abusing their right to carry a firearm contact the local law enforcement and give them a discription or a licence number of the person.
Ramprat

Other then Alaska (bears)where I carried a sawed-off 12g., I've never felt like I needed to pack anything other then rod and gear. I've fished amongst some A-hole Cowlitz fishermen as well as Reiter and a few other areas that draw large crowds and have never felt threatened, if and when a situation comes that I wish I had a gun, that will probably be my last day on the river.

If you ever see my gun it will be the last thing you ever see. I have carried a gun for 10 years and even my closest fishing partners dont know it. As a matter of fact I have never shown my gun to anyone. The idea of carrying a concealed weapon is just that, To keep it concealed, unless you plan to use it. I carry a weapon because I have the right to, I carry it for my personal protection, not because I think it's cool or whatever. If you dont believe in carrying one, don't!!! I have spent my time serving this great country and defending the rights and freedoms that we all enjoy and the right to bear arms is one of them. Just be glad when I'm in the store with you when it gets robbed, at least you have a chance to survive. My .02 worth.
John

FishnMagician, I have no problem with people (with permits) carrying concealed weapons, but unless your a trained cop, I seriously doubt I would be glad I'm in a store with you when it gets robbed, from everything I've read and heard, my chances of being shot greatly improve when cowboys such as yourself show up. Could be wrong, just my opinion.

Fish'n'Magician,

You are right on target, if you will excuse the phrase. Concealed carry is the ultimate ground of, don't ask, don't tell.

Think for a moment. What if we really had a freedom to carry society? What if 3 people had been armed on each of those plane flights last september?

And for the next terrorist incident, will we be asking, what if some of those passengers had been carrying a freaking pocket knife?

If you engage in arms control, you yield power to the outlaws. If you have good arms control, it's worse, you yield control to the smart, devious outlaws.

The opinion that only "trained cops" can handle a weapon safely and effectively is pretty funny. I hit a deer once about six years ago and a cop stopped to check it out. When he drew his pistol and killed the deer his "training" was evident. I still laugh when i think about it. I think id feel safer with someone that knew how to shoot. Just my opinion. Just a few months ago i got pulled over and was friendly chatting with the cop and he told me the muzzle velocity of his .40 was 3000 feet per second. What kind of training do these guys get?

I have carried mine concealed ever since I got back from Vietnam. (1968) Most of my partners over the years never even new I carried. A couple of my buddys thanked God I had one. I just do not let people know.

My 3 main points are,
1. I pack because I can.
2. Never pull it out unless you're gonna use it.
3. You don't shoot to kill, you shoot to stay alive.

Does she or doesn't she? Not even her hairdresser knows for sure.

AK - I agree with you completely on the aspect of training being important. Almost anyone can figure out how to fire a weapon , but that is only part of weapons training. You need to know when and when not to engage with your weapon. I have been in situations where I was able to walk away from trouble, thank god. If the weapon were to have been drawn the outcome could have been alot different. You are trained that once you draw the weapon (ONLY IF YOU FEEL YOU OR SOMEONE ELSE IS IN MORTAL DANGER) you pull, evaluate , and fire. All shootings go to a grand jury to decide whether it was justified or not. That being said, Again pull ONLY IF YOU FEEL YOU OR SOMEONE ELSE IS IN MORTAL DANGER . Along with the right to carry, comes the heavy responsibility that others here have stated.
John

Is where we are that far from where we have come from??

Some thoughts to ponder...

**An armed man is a citizen. An unarmed man is a subject.

**A gun in the hand is better than a cop on the phone.

**Glock: The original point and click interface.

**Gun control is not about guns, it's about control.

**If guns are outlawed, can we use swords? or sticks? or rocks? or our hands?

**If guns cause crime then pencils cause misspelled words.

**Free men do not ask permission to bear arms.

**If you don't know your rights, you don't have any.

**Those who trade liberty for security, have neither.

**The United States Constitution(c) 1791. All Rights reserved.

**What part of "shall not be infringed" do you not understand.

**The Second Amendment is in place in case they ignore the others.

**64,999,987 firearms owners killed no one yesterday.

**Guns only have two enemies; rust and liberals.

**Know guns, know peace and safety. No guns, no peace nor safety.

**You don't shoot to kill; you shoot to stay alive.

**Assault is a behavior, not a device.

**Criminals love gun control; it makes their jobs safer.

**If guns cause crime, then matches cause arson.

**Only a government that is afraid of its citizens tries to control them.

**You only have the rights you are willing to fight for.

**Enforce the "gun control laws" we have, don't make more.

**When you remove the peoples right to bear arms, you create slaves.

**The American Revolution would never have happened with gun control.

** "...a government of the people, by the people, for the people..."

On a local river 3 years ago I walked into a hole by myself in the dark. Soon after I arrived a guy was in my face asking what I was doing in his hole.It took me a moment to answer this fools question.I don't think he liked the answer.But he was smart enough not to continue.This was a day I was glad to be packing.

I used to carry a .38 with me because I used to hitchhike back to my rig after the float was over. You know, back in the days that you could leave your boat unattended with all your gear in it and it would still be there when you returned.

One day, someone stopped to pick me up, and as I was getting into their truck, the gun fell out of the holster onto the pavement. I couldn't have felt worse about how that wigged them out...it was a husband and his wife. I ended up explaining why I carried a gun, handed it over to him, he gave me the ride back to my rig and I never carried one again. It's now stored away in a box.

People are inherently good, I like to think. Why freak em out?


diana

I usally carry a .44 mag with me because Washington fish are So Much Bigger than Oregon fish I have to shoot them to land them!
Isn't that right Mr. Jackson! See ya next month.

P.S Can I park my trailer at your place for a couple of days? Just until I can get a permit to haul it back home, Thanks DJ!

I see your points Dogfish, Coot22, and everybody else, but I still don't think I would feel safe fishing next to certain people with a concealed weapon in their possession. Most of you guys and gals I'm sure are careful and wouldn't pull it unless you absolutely needed to. (BTW, didn't know you were an officer, Dogfish?)

Once again, just in my own opinion, I believe it would be safer to leave the gun at home unless you're going into the backwoods or a rough situation like the alleys of inner-city L.A. Taking the law into your own hands is a risky call. But, it's your decision not mine.

I would much rather spend a nice day fishing, enjoying the outdoors, and not worrying if I'll have to use my gun.

If I come back to my car and see that it's being broken into, I'll probably hide and make some kind of noise in the bushes to alert the crook that somebody's watching. It's better than confronting them with the gun and having an outcome like the ending of so many tragic movies. If an enraged drunk tries to start conflict with me, I'll walk away. If he wants to jump me, I'm sure that my fellow anglers would come to assist me.

Has anybody ever thought about a knife instead of a gun? I know lots of people that have hunting knives strapped to their belts 24/7. Pepper mace possibly? Seems to me, they would be safer. Maybe couldn't stop that criminal who's packing heat, but at least it would be a threat to an un-armed perp.

Call me a pussy, call me whatever you want, this is just my opinion. Take it for what it's worth. I acknowledge your opinions. At least acknowledge mine.

i always pack heat in the winter.my 44 and my 9.the 44 has 3 burners and my 9 has 1.makes for a better fishing trip on them cold days. scott

A couple of years ago I was fishing a quiet strech of the Bella Coola river in British Columbia After a hours fishing and landing several salmon,I started back wading chest deep along the shore line of a small island. I came to a deep spot so I climbed out on the bank .several steps later I came on two salmon carcases;one was freshly eaten to the bones ,the other had deep claw marks on its back.Two steps further I found a large bed down area still warm and smelling of grizzley.
I had been fishing for an hour within fifty yards of a large male grizzley. Normally I would have been packing a 12 guage magnum bear stick but on this occasion I had left it behind .
Say what you like but you feel a lot more relaxed if your alone in bear country when your packing something with enough stopping power.

i believe in gun control also, that's why i use 2 hands

I thought that I could stay out of this, but, I just can't.

Coho- you are way off base in your thinking. In the Law Enforcement community we have a saying, "there is always someone out there that can kick your ars." We believe that the best fight is no fight. We don't want to find out if the next guy we contact is the one that will mop the floor with us. Nothing "wussy" about it. You sound like you think you can take care of yourself with just your bare hands. If you are a skilled fighter then my hat is off to you. The problem is when you bring your fists to a gun fight. You are foolish to believe that you will have the opportunity to control every situation. The Crack Head that approaches you and puts a gun to your head for dope money isn't really in the frame of mind to negotiate with you. In this situation, you don't really have a say in the matter if you're not packing. He chooses whether you live or die. I'm not picking on you, but, one day you may wish that you excercised your right to carry a handgun. (Hope that day never comes)

Krome Brite- I'm still trying to figure you out. As far as I can tell, you seem to thing that other people will bail you out of a situation if you get in one. All I can say is that there is nobody better to rely on but yourself. Your fellow fishermen won't always be there for you.

For the rest of you- I am very impressed and relieved at what I've read. It sounds like most of you are squared away in your thinking and I wouldn't hesitate to fish next to you on a river.
You are right on the money when you say to walk away. Nothing is worth it. It also sounds like most of you will also make the right descision when forced to draw your weapon. After all, it will be after he(badguy) has drawn his weapon first right? Otherwise there is no justification for it. The jury won't believe you.

A heads up- A concealed weapon is just that, a "concealed" weapon. If you think that you are getting away with leaving your weapon exposed for other people to tremble over, then it isn't concealed. If your jacket isn't long enough to cover that weapon then tough, should have purchased a longer jacket. That is part of the responsibility of owning a handgun and following the guidelines of the permit to carry one. If that jacket was never really long enough to reasonably conceal the gun, then the judge won't buy your excuse. In a perfect situation, we should be able to look at each other and not be able to tell if each other is packing.

Point to ponder- Excluding wildlife, There is only two situations to draw your weapon. 1) to protect your own life and 2) to protect anothers life from imminent danger. Here is a scenario that we should all think about...I am Joe citizen fishing next to 2 idiots that descide to start verbally arguing. The argument becomes way more heated then it should and idiot #1 pulls a gun on idiot #2 and points it at him. As a citizen, what are your options? Let me hear them. This scenario is directed at those of you that think it would be wonderful to pull your gun out first in a verbal confrontatio