To all of you who like to pack. Watch out everyone is out to get you. They're hideing and ready to jump out and get you. It must be tough liveing in a world of paranoia and so scared that you fill the need to pack. I don't pack and never will. In my 50 plus years of life I've never had the need for one. Never got myself into a situation where I couldn't fight my way out of.
A person on another board said "men like to pack heat to compensate for the size of there penis.
If you need to pack heat then stay at home.
That's all we need is a bunch guys carrying guns around. Trust me ,they'll cause more trouble then
to stop trouble. Real men don't pack. The Duck

Duck- Are you an idiot????? You must be to make a statment as incredibly uneducated as that. The majority of people who carry will never let you know they are. WOW.........I respect you not wanting to carry, But you need to respect the rights of others who wish to. There are enough dumb asses out there, Dont be one of them.
John

......And the beat goes on ......

Without resorting to name-calling, which truly shows the small size of one's penis, I would like to make one last comment. To Duck--Agreed. Finally someone with the same, or very similar thoughts as mine.

I agree with Jack.....the beat goes on.........I am done commenting on this subject, I respect the opinion of others I just wish others would respect the opinions that other people have. No sense in arguing over an issue that will always have 2 sides...... :p :p :p Go outside and enjoy the sun I know I am.
JB

Fish'n Magician, first what kind of question is that. Did you expect me to say yes? I am also college educated. Son you should show some respect for your elders. I've been around longer and know a lot more to life then your feeble mind. A REAL MAN (The Duck)

The term "well regulated" does not have the same meaning today as when the second amendment was added to the constitution.

The term means well armed.It does not refer to governmental oversight.

Since Big Jim brought this back to the top, I would like to post something here and get your comments. So that you know, I would consider it wonderful if handguns were banned in the US. I am a member of Handgun Control Inc. and support the Brady bill. Now, I am also realistic enough to understand that this particular genie (handgun ownership) is so far out of the bottle that all the kings horses... can not put it back in. I can tell you that I lived for several years in a country where handgun ownership was illegal - even the police did not pack and it was a real eye opener. Equally as violent, but far less fatal!

Here's my idea - make the commission of a felony with a handgun an automatic additional 5 yr. sentence. The 5 yr. portion would have no parole capability. If the handgun is unregistered, it becomes an automatic 10 yr. additional sentence. If you are caught with an unregistered handgun, even without the commission of a felony (traffic stop, shoplifting, etc.) there would be an automatic 5 year non-parole term. All of the above would count as a strike in the three strikes law. Handguns would be classified as any firearm that could be concealed on a person and would include sawed off shotguns,etc.

If you disagree with the above based upon 2nd Amendment bases, fair enough, but I don't think that adds anything to the debate. Your position is well known and very effectively presented elsewhere. I would like to get ideas from the folks that support the 2nd Amendment as to how these proposals would affect you, the law abiding carrier.

Let the games begin!!!

eddie,
would not effect me at all because im not a criminal and i would like to see anyone convicted of a violent crime do more time, but we all know that wont happen.
heck there putting paroled sex offenders in your local motel six.
hey while were at it lets ban alcohol and cigarettes and abortion and on and on and on.
i believe in personal freedom and think others should keep their noses out of other peoples buisness.
you know peta doesnt think you should fish should they be able to tell you what to do.
its funny everyone wants to tell everyone else what to do but knowone better damn well get in the way of their personal lives.
funny huh?

I think there are very few people who would disagree with the additional five years for a felony with a gun.

A ten year sentence for posessing an unregistered handgun? Just say NO to gun registration.If it was ten years for posessing a stolen weapon that would be different.

Why not drop the registered and insert stolen,anyway?

Five years for posessing an unregistered handgun? My god man, are you serious? So if my grandad gave me an old govt pistol and i didnt run and go tell the police i had it i would be deserving of five years in prison? This is how it affects me. The govt has NO right to know what guns i have or if i have any at all. I am not a criminal, i am a free citizen. The reason we need this right to own guns and not have them registered is so the govt never takes the power away from the people, and does its job, serves the people. That may sound a little radical to some of you leftists, but its reality.

Hubby inherited all his dad's guns. Not a one is registered. Never will be either.

There are more stupid people driving cars and killing innocent people, than stupid gun owners. No one ever seems to get mad at drivers who kill because of their stupidity.

I don't understand the priorities of some of you.

I guess I'm the one who does not understand. Why would anyone be against registration of handguns? If you really believe that registration of handguns will lead the Government to want to confiscate your weapons, you live in a scary world that I can't comprehend. I mean, My God, the Feds have tactical and strategic nuclear weapons, what effect will your guns, registered or not, have on a Government that is truly willing to subjugate their people? The reason that I look at registration as an important issue is that criminals will not want to register their guns (don't want to do the background check) and there are still far too many places for a criminal to buy a gun that is not stolen (non-professional gun dealers at gun shows for instance). I would like to see the 2nd Amendment folks put their money where their mouth is. Tell me just exactly what existing law or laws will keep guns out of the hands of criminals. Tell me, would you as a gun owner be prepared to accept responsibility for the damage that a stolen gun of yours is involved with if it could be shown that you were careless in the storage of the gun? Just where do your rights infringe on mine? If my "inalienable rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" are being abridged due to unlawful conduct by gun owners, do I have redress? And remember, not registering your guns is against the law. I'm looking for some kind of common ground. We will never be rid of guns in our society. As I said before, the genie is out of the bottle. But isn't there a way to find some middle ground that will protect legal gun owners and those of us who do not choose to own guns and want to keep them out of the hands of criminals?

More people die in car accidents than gun related deaths. Do they try to outlaw cars???? NO!
Remember, guns do not kill people, people kill people.

Well Eddie,you said it yourself.Criminals will not want to register their weapons.So what do you think the purpose of registration is if it is not aimed at criminals?There is nothing paranoid about the assumption that registration is about the confiscation of firearms from the general,law abiding,public.It's a very rational assumption,given the existence of groups like HCI that so actively push for it.

If you disagree,I would like to hear your opinion on what the purpose of registration is.You've failed to state that so far.

I don't believe that laws will ever eliminate crime.I am not prepared to surrender my ability to effectively defend myself in order to force criminals to behave themselves.They won't.The answer is not to push for more gun laws, laws that law abiding folks obey and criminals break.You can't legislate morality,remember?

No,if someone breaks into my house,kills my dog,beats the alarms system(or just ignores it)and steals one of my firearms,I don't think I should have the cops show up looking for a way to put me in jail because I didn't have a 1000 dollar safe(even though I do have a safe) and let the thief go free.

As far as common ground,it's there for you.Drop the registration scheme and go after the guy who would steal my firearms,not me.

Most people can't be trusted, so we should have laws against guns, which most people will abide by because they can be trusted.

Steelie bum,
?????????

Leadslinger - The case (in my mind) is simple for registration. Because guns are used in the commission of crimes, because guns can and are stolen from law abiding citizens, the government (we, the people) have the right to know to whom the guns belong. You are correct, a lot (my guess is the vast majority) of criminal guns are non-registered. A smaller subset of those are stolen. That is why I make a simple proposal:

Automatic 5 yr. non-parole eligible sentence for a felony committed with a handgun (registered).
Automatic 10 yr. non-parole eligible sentence for a felony committed with an unregistered or stolen handgun.
BTW - both crimes (the original felony and the gun portion) would be classified as strikes under the three strikes law.
Automatic 5 yr. non-parole eligible sentence for possession of a non-registered or stolen handgun, even if not used in the commission of a crime. Also a strike.

My goal is to not confiscate guns from law abiding citizens. As I said before, I have lived in a country (New Zealand) where handgun ownership was illegal. It certainly changes the climate. In the US, there are already too many guns out there to make such an approach work. However, using the sentencing guidelines above, there would be a very harsh penalty for those criminals who choose to use a gun and for those criminals who steal a gun. I believe that deterrence would occur with this kind of approach. Somebody earlier said that we can't legislate morality. That is true, however, the state (we, the people again) has the right and the duty to reward appropriate behavior and punish inappropriate behavior. Unless you want to live in anarchy, we have chosen to live in a nation governed by laws. I am still interested in hearing from the folks that support gun rights, what impact would these laws would have upon you if you are a law abiding owner of guns...

Throughout history, the banning of firearms by "people smarter than the average citizen" has started with registry.

Any legislation that makes a person go from a law abiding citizen to criminal with the stroke of a pen needs to be scrutinized.

There is an old saying, "If you outlaw guns, only outlaws will have guns" and "an unarmed citizen is a peasant". Why stop at guns? How about baseball bats, kitchen knives, Bows, Halibut spears, gaff hooks, hell even sticks and stones. Those are all weapons. Run at a cop with one and see what happens. It is impossible to stop crime unless people are afriad to commit the crime. It should be mandantory no parole for any crime. Not just a slap on the wrist. If the crime like rape or assault is done, turn the criminal over to the victims family. That would stop rape. A splintery old ball bat up the wazzu will cure any urge. For those interested look at the links below. They are from Australia, their crime rate sky rocketed after banning guns. As for registration, We are already doing it by having concealed carry permits.