Check

 

Defiance Boats!

LURECHARGE!

THE PP OUTDOOR FORUMS

Kast Gear!

Power Pro Shimano Reels G Loomis Rods

  Willie boats! Puffballs!

 

Three Rivers Marine

 

 
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >
Topic Options
Rate This Topic
#145951 - 03/19/02 07:44 PM kwik fish
DM Offline
Smolt

Registered: 01/15/02
Posts: 91
Loc: WASHINGTON
What is the prefered size of kwik fish for fishing springers and steelhead.

What do you find the most efective way to fish them.

Thanks in advance

---------------------------
I cant live for a long
time but I can have a good time. Go fishing!

Top
#145952 - 03/19/02 07:59 PM Re: kwik fish
h2o Offline
Carcass

Registered: 10/31/02
Posts: 2227
Loc: Portland
Hey, something I know a little about...

Personally I don't use too many kwikfish when the target is steelhead.

I use them almost exclusively for kings/springers. The deeper the hole the larger the kwikkie. On my home river we use K14's, mostly with a herring wrap.
_________________________
"Christmas is an American holiday." - micropterus101

Top
#145953 - 03/19/02 09:40 PM Re: kwik fish
Jett'in Fool Offline
Parr

Registered: 01/03/02
Posts: 63
Loc: Vancouver
For trolling I like k13,14,15.
For anchoring I use K15,16 depending on the current.

I dont use them for Steelies however.
Sardine wrap always cool
_________________________
North River Jetboats. Probably not your first boat, but definitely your last.

Top
#145954 - 03/19/02 10:16 PM Re: kwik fish
fishingtoo Offline
Juvenille at Sea

Registered: 04/08/01
Posts: 101
DM: do a search on this BB on "kwikfish" & you will find tech reports on how to bait wrap them, how to tune them, preferred colors, how to modify front hook to increase results etc etc.
Also check out RT's technique for rigging up dyed prawns if you're heading out for springers.

Top
#145955 - 03/19/02 10:17 PM Re: kwik fish
silver hilton Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 10/08/01
Posts: 1155
Loc: Out there, somewhere
I like K15's on the coastal rivers, and K12's and K13's for the Columbia. I have done well with orange U20 flatfish, which is about the same size as a K12 for steelhead. Back when I lived in Portland, we knocked summer steelhead and fall salmon dead with flatfish in sizes of F7 through U20. Orange was the only color we ever did much good with, though I can't say we gave other colors too much of a chance. This was before the notion of baitwraps became popular (yup, I'm that old), so we just used them bare. Caught plenty of fish that way, too. I plan on trying one in a few weeks when I head down to the Columbia.
_________________________
Hm-m-m-m-m

Top
#145956 - 03/19/02 11:33 PM Re: kwik fish
Bene Offline
Fry

Registered: 01/27/02
Posts: 30
Loc: Kennewick
Some of the best Steelhead fishing at Big White Salmon is done with F-7 to U-20 flatfish. Have also hooked several fall chinook at night while steelhead fishing with U-20's.

Bene

Top
#145957 - 03/20/02 12:49 AM Re: kwik fish
bardo Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 11/21/01
Posts: 307
Loc: union wa
i use nothing but k18 for salmon and and big steelhead. if i wanted small fish i'd use small lures

Top
#145958 - 03/20/02 03:06 AM Re: kwik fish
Anonymous
Unregistered


DM, it depends on the water conditions. But generally Columbia spingers, and coastal ones too, seem to prefer size K-13/14 Kwikfish to the bigger 15/16 and T50 Flatfish that the fall 'nooks like. I think it could be partially due to them feeding off shore on so many small smelt and also striking and eating them on the way upriver with them around. If the water gets murky though, I would try the K-15's.

I recall catching a lot of springers on chrome with blue scale U20 Flatfish with a bit of herring oil on them, back in the day. But they are a little more productive with sardine, herring, or smelt filets wrapped meat side out on the belly. Using either one size larger than stock Owner brand trebles, or my single treble rig up on a 4 bead chain off the belly eyescrew with split rings, and a small foam floatant on the hook shank to keep it hovering right in the strike zone, usually provide better landing rates than the stock hooks. Just keep them all sticky sharp. And keep these lures tuned to dive straight as you would with plugs.

Since they do dive, either use a longer 30" to 35" lead dropper with a 50" to 55" leader for anchor still fishing them, or trolling them. If you use about a 24" lead dropper (better for netting fighting fish), then after stabilizing the lead at the 'tap point' in the current, reel in 2 or 3 cranks to get this lure up off bottom a ways. In the trolling scenario, watch your fish finder so you know when to let out some line to keep them near bottom. The exception is in the super deep shipping channels where springers often swim only 12 to 17 ft. deep in water 40 to 80 ft. deep; then fish them that shallower depth when trolling out there on occassion. Troll at a speed that keeps them thumping at a nice slow to medium rate. If they are used at a fast action rate they aren't as productive. Thus when you anchor, usually on the outgoing current in the Columbia or up the tributaries, try to find water fairly near shore between 10 to 25 ft. deep with a moderate current. If it's too fast, then backtroll them by either back tapping the lead or changing over to Jet Planer divers (this is especially productive in the tribs) so as to get that deadly moderate speed thumping action on them.

As for steelhead fishing, I believe the smaller U20 Flatfish and K-10/11/12 Kwikfish are under utilized. Rigging them on a 40" leader with the proper amount of slinky weight to drift and swing them thru hold slots can be real productive. So can hovering or bouncing them in the seams. Don't be suprized if a big 'nook grabs one of those smaller ones when doing that for steelies, if they are also present.

The 'go to' stock colors for springers and fall 'nooks has been the chrome and chartreuse green combos. When the water isn't murky, my chrome and metalic blue 'RT's Injured Baitfish' pattern has been deadly on them for years (use search feature for instructions on making those - and for custom painting and taping chrome based Warts also). For steelies, I agree with the above recommendation of the orange or flame red (with black tiger stripes it's good too); but in clearer water all the good plug color patterns, such as the 'blue pirate', work well too.

Top
#145959 - 03/20/02 06:13 PM Re: kwik fish
DM Offline
Smolt

Registered: 01/15/02
Posts: 91
Loc: WASHINGTON
Thanks Alot guys smile Thanks for the specifics RT. I am going for springers this weekend.

Top
#145960 - 03/21/02 01:13 PM Re: kwik fish
4Salt Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/07/00
Posts: 3001
Loc: Lynnwood, WA
One thing that I've wondered. Why, when wild fish release is mandatory on the Columbia, are people using barbed treble hooks on their springer plugs? Seems to me that when endangered fish make up part of the run, that barbless single hooks would better protect these fish, and make it much easier to release the unclipped ones. Even barbless trebles would probably help. I'm not sure if I'm missing something, (I probably am) but if we are so adamant about protecting wild steelhead, why aren't we doing the same for the wild springers?
_________________________
A day late and a dollar short...

Top
#145961 - 03/21/02 05:03 PM Re: kwik fish
Anonymous
Unregistered


That's a good point 4salt. I used to think the same way. But recent extensive studies were released, links to it posted here some time ago, that demonstrated no higher mortality rates using trebles than single hooks. Apparently the trade off is that the damage done by yanking out multiple hook points is offset by the findings that single hooks are more commonly taken deeper, where they often hook the gills. Perhaps the fish feel the trebles much quicker and halt the swallowing response on the baits. De-barbing should help with either type of hook though. However, in the 2 year study of all tpes of gear C&R on Willamette R. springers, done under observation by the NMFS, found the mortality rates exceptable enough to allow the Columbia spring chinook sport fishery the last couple of years without incerting specific hook regulations. But to be on the safer side, conscientious anglers can de-barb the hooks rather easily, and this makes it easier to get expensive lures, such as Kwikfish, back without hooking themselves too on the free hook; or breaking the leader and see a nate swim away with their lure. Barbless hook landing rates are close the barbed hook.

RT

Top
#145962 - 03/21/02 06:06 PM Re: kwik fish
DM Offline
Smolt

Registered: 01/15/02
Posts: 91
Loc: WASHINGTON
Just picked up my plugs today I did replace the hooks to singles but do you guys think its a good idea to debarb them?

Top
#145963 - 03/21/02 07:59 PM Re: kwik fish
Anonymous
Unregistered


With lots of fish with adipose fins intact that are mandatory to release in the Columbia springer fishery, with a few of them actual native fish, it is a good idea to use barbless hooks. They penetrate a bit quicker and deeper, and if you play the fish without allowing it to slack the line you will have very close to as good of landing rates. Where debarbed hooks usually come out during a fight is with a marginal hookup in a fish that quickly swims toward you, slacking the line long enough to headshake it loose.

Another good compromise alternative is to push the barbs down about half way. This allows the deeper pentration, yet does a little less barb reversal damage when taking the hook out. This is what I usually do where barbs are allowed.

Top
#145964 - 03/22/02 01:09 AM Re: kwik fish
silver hilton Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 10/08/01
Posts: 1155
Loc: Out there, somewhere
DM,

I fished with debarbed, single hooked kwickies this past year on the Chehalis and the Wynoochie (oops, let out some zipperlips there...!). We hooked somewhere around 50 fish on kwickies, and 15 on wiggle warts, all with debarbed, Gamakatsu siwash singles. We lost no, zero, zip, zilch fish that we got a good initial hookset in. If the fish was on for more than three seconds, he was in the net.

At least with the G hooks, if you crimp the barb, it usually breaks off, which leaves this little tiny hint of a barb left, which both keeps the fish on, as well as making it easy to release the fish if desired.

I use singles on most of my bigger kwickies now.

Also, for the record, we hooked up almost all of our strikes, too. If you let the fish take the rod all the way down, it was pretty much a hooked fish. I had some buddies that I couldn't convince to keep their hands off the rods, and we lost some that way, but usually it was tip down, fish on, with the singles. I wish Luhr Jenson would just sell them with singles, I now believe trebles are unnecessary.
_________________________
Hm-m-m-m-m

Top
#145965 - 03/22/02 01:15 AM Re: kwik fish
h2o Offline
Carcass

Registered: 10/31/02
Posts: 2227
Loc: Portland
How do you rig the Siwash to the Kwikkies? Carefully right (wouldn't want to break one wink )
Do you use the bead chain or split rings? Why?
_________________________
"Christmas is an American holiday." - micropterus101

Top
#145966 - 03/22/02 01:52 AM Re: kwik fish
silver hilton Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 10/08/01
Posts: 1155
Loc: Out there, somewhere
I do this:

1) unscrew the eyes about a turn

2) Pry the eyes open with a screwdriver blade.

3) Put a swivel into the eye, crimp it closed, and screw it back in. I use the 75 lb rated swivel, forget what size that is.

4) Clamp a siwash hook onto the swivel. I use 1/0 for K14's, 2/0 for k15's, and 3/0 for K16's. Some folks use larger. I haven't had problems with these.

5) Bend the point of the hook offset about 10 degrees. I do the back hook one way and the front hook the other.

This works with K14's through 16's. I tried it with a K13 earlier tonight, and it didn't work. The hookkeeppers on those appear to not be screw eyes, and to be cast into the plug. May have to use trebles on the Columbia.
_________________________
Hm-m-m-m-m

Top
#145967 - 03/22/02 02:02 AM Re: kwik fish
silver hilton Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 10/08/01
Posts: 1155
Loc: Out there, somewhere
Forgot to answer why I do this. I started using single hooks just because you had to on the rivers out on the coast. After I started down that path, I started trying to figure out a good single hook approach.

I use this approach because the it produces a hook location that is clear of the plug, but close to the plug. If I add a split ring to the setup to avoid having to pry open the hookkeepper, it makes the finished length longer than I like. I could shorten it by using a smaller hook, but I want the gap of the hook.

If I used just a split ring, with no swivel, the hook can't hang free, and may be twisted out of a fish's mouth due to leverage on the plug. I have used this rig for about a year now, and am pretty impressed with it's hookup efficiency. Nothing like chum season to prove out a rig.

Probably the real reason I do this is that I have too much time on my hands after the market closes.
_________________________
Hm-m-m-m-m

Top
#145968 - 03/22/02 05:37 AM Re: kwik fish
Anonymous
Unregistered


Kwikie addendum:

Hey J, the K-13's do dive well for their size. And of course the K-15/16 and T50's dive real well. I almost exclusively flatline backtroll them w/o weight or divers in river depths of 6' to 12' deep, or up to 15' deep water when using the real thin superbraid lines. The K-14's are good for flatlining moderate depth runs, but you can help them to dive a little better than stock. Take out the front eyescrew. Then use a flat file to flatten the top beveled edge of the entire front bill section, forward of the joining line. The ensuing flat edge will then be about 1/8" wide, around the bill section. Then replace the stock eyescrew with one a size larger. These 2 things together will help these dive a little deeper for flatlining, and add some to the action. This modification also enables them to work a little better with the sardine filet wrap.

RT

Top
#145969 - 03/23/02 01:55 AM Re: kwik fish
fishingtoo Offline
Juvenille at Sea

Registered: 04/08/01
Posts: 101
Silver hilton: When modifying the kwikies hook set up, are you using just a 75# Sampo barrel swivel or a bead chain swivel ?

Top
#145970 - 03/23/02 10:42 PM Re: kwik fish
silver hilton Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 10/08/01
Posts: 1155
Loc: Out there, somewhere
I use a Rosco 75# swivel, which is a size 7. I suspect the comparable Sampo swivel would be just fine as well. The next size up would be fine as well, in my opinion. I don't use bead chain on the Kwickies, because it puts the hook too far back for my taste. I do use bead chain on wiggle warts, but that's a different story.

But heck, I'm an amateur. RT has probably forgotten more than I'll ever know about rigging kwickies. Ask him what he thinks.
_________________________
Hm-m-m-m-m

Top
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >

Moderator:  elparquito 
Search

Site Links
Home
Our Washington Fishing
Our Alaska Fishing
Reports
Rates
Contact Us
About Us
Recipes
Photos / Videos
Visit us on Facebook
Today's Birthdays
No Birthdays
Recent Gallery Pix
Gibbs Delta Time Capsule
Driftin'
Who's Online
3 registered (paguy, dwatkins, wolverine), 247 Guests and 3 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
Rosa Walton, pollack, DontBeStupid, johnjorge, Clearwater Alaska
11435 Registered Users
Top Posters
Hankster 31892
Todd 25028
Sol Duc 15583
Dan S. 15227
elparquito 13542
Salmo g. 12535
stam 12427
eyeFISH 12425
STRIKE ZONE 12107
Dogfish 10978
Forum Stats
11435 Members
18 Forums
76854 Topics
895457 Posts

Max Online: 596 @ 05/24/12 03:35 PM

Join the PP forums.

It's quick, easy, and always free!

Working for the fish and our future fishing opportunities:

The Wild Steelhead Coalition

The Photo & Video Gallery. Nearly 1200 images from our fishing trips! Tips, techniques, live weight calculator & more in the Fishing Resource Center. The time is now to get prime dates for 2018 Olympic Peninsula Winter Steelhead , don't miss out!.

| HOME | ALASKA FISHING | WASHINGTON FISHING | RIVER REPORTS | FORUMS | FISHING RESOURCE CENTER | CHARTER RATES | CONTACT US | WHAT ABOUT BOB? | PHOTO & VIDEO GALLERY | LEARN ABOUT THE FISH | RECIPES | SITE HELP & FAQ |