Hey I'm up for a discussion on this subject. I get lots of requests for info and have my own ways of dealin with it. Some is easy and I freely give a response. Others I evaluate the asker....yes members gooose is very cautious about who gets what info. I evaluate your personalities and behaviours on this board. So far I'm 110% in locating new fishing partners using this method. And I would like to think I have helped several guys 110% gain in their techs and knowledge. I don't give out what will hurt me or my friends but I am always willing to help within reason. So lets talk?

This has been my first year steelheading. I have talked to numerous people who say that it took them a year or it took them two years to hook their first fish. My 3rd trip out (december)fishing for steel hooked up 2, since then i have been out every weekend except one. Here i am now 5 for 14, and dont think I would have hooked one if it wasnt for the people on this site and others.

So to everybody that has helped me at one time or another THANK YOU!!!!!! Couldn't have done it without cha!!!

Thanks
Tyler

Gooose, I've been waiting for this one. As someone fairly new to the board, I feel that I can relate to this thread.

There appears to be a good-old-boys network here that is unwilling to share any information outside their own group. Part of me can understand this and another part gets POd. The following is from the POd part:

While I can understand the desire to protect the resource, I cringe at the thought of discouraging new members. Here is a radical thought to ponder:

The only way to protect the resource is to encourage more fishermen to get active in the fishery.

90% of the fish are caught by 10% of the fishermen, right? What does that mean? 90% of the fishermen got skunked! Those 90% pay their taxes, buy their licenses and go out once or twice a year and don't catch anything!! To add insult to injury they are being ridiculed by the 10% who have the knowledge to help them.

So why should the 10% catching all the fish care? Politics!! The 10% catching all the fish are screaming to protect THEIR resource while the 90% that are getting skunked either a) think the fishery sucks and think all fishing should be banned or b) don't care and don't want their tax dollars wasted on entertaining the few a-holes that catch all the fish and ridicule them for not knowing how or where to catch them.

I maintain that if we care about the fishery, our goal must be to enable as many people as possible to get out and catch fish! Politicians will vote to protect recreational fishermens' rights over commercial and tribal fishermens's rights when their constituents tell them what is more important by voicing their opinions to them.

We all say we want to protect the resource, but when push comes to shove, and tax dollars are on the table, who is going to vote to spend money on fish: a) the 10% enjoying the resource? or b) the 90% that got skunked AND insulted? This is a democracy so who loses?

Guess what gooose is trying to say is "PAYING YOUR DUES". Been fishin for over 30'odd years and will share alot of information, but, can't exactly hold ones hand to crank the reel, bait the hook, motor boat, tell you to wear your baseball cap on backward. All fisherpeople will never give up alot of their best kept secrets and if they post they don't, their lying. There is a lot of very good info. on this BB and no one is trying to miss lead anybody intentionally.

Robert

------------

"DO THE WILD THANG"

having been chasing steel for over 30 years and having had to learn the hard way i still dont mind helping a newbie....tackle and techniques i will share totally, but with zones that took years of seach and destroy are a little harder too give out freely. i guess it depends on whose asking or how drunk i am hehehehehe....peace

tight lines......wayne.........

I'm 50/50 on this...

I don't feel I would be as successful if someone hadn't of helped me out at one time or another.
Any of us learned from scratch? Certainly there had to be help somewhere along the way. I don't mind passing knowledge to help someone out. That's part of being a sportsman.

Zipper-lipped spots? If you don't mind the smell of Bigfoot in the air! True we all have our spots but, in well-known waters, success depends on knowledge learned through trial and error (paying dues). This type of watershed, I say help them out. Teach and show them. Will they help or hurt the resource? I betting in the long run, it will help. They'll want to take an active part in the fisheries.

Some folks enjoy their secret spots as places of solitude. These are the spots I am zipper-lipped about.

Our secrets spots are eventually (if not already) going to be found. Odds are...when you're not there, they are! It's only a matter of time before "Joe Smo" figures it out or they are published in our magazines with specifics- it's going to happen!

Downriggin'

Well put Downriggin. Good post.

There has been a long used phrase concerning this general subject - "Show them how but not where". This certainly applies to zipperlips. Please keep them that way! The one thing I take issue with to an extent though is your comment about magazines. Some will sell out zippers and many won't. As a columnist for STS mag I won't give out any zipperlip rivers, or areas of more solitude on more known waters in Oregon or Washington. I won't be quite as careful about BC and AK - they need our tourist dollars and have more water and fish than they can use. With a few past exceptions, STS has pretty well stuck to this position.

As for helping newcomers to learn how to fish effectively, I obviously think that's fine; or I wouldn't have gotten into the biz. Seemingly, the only guys who mind about fishing tech info being shared publicly are selfish guys, who themselves have learned a lot from others. Too bad; try to get over it. I had to come to terms with it, as I used to be secretive about fishing techs. But once you have learned to get over the eroneous notion that you are some kind of gifted human being for being able to catch more fish than average fishers, you have grown to a better place. Because you aren't 'the [Bleeeeep!]' you think you are for that (despite the recent trash talkin threads, that are in fun). Those who have spent more time studying material, and particularly have more time to be on the water dialing in all the time, are going to have higher catch rates. That big of deal? I don't think so. Maybe worth a little self pride.

And ET, I can't go along with your old axiom that 10% of the fishermen catch all the fish, with 90% getting mostly skunked all the time. Certainly the exceptional fishers are in the minority because they are really into it. But the average fishermen these days (after years of info sharing in books, mags, seminars, fishing/outdoor expositions in the bigger cities, TV shows, tackle shop education, Luhr Jensen 'how to' pamphlets, etc) are pretty good fishers. As for a group of guys on here that will only share info with 'their own', well that can't happen on here. Everybody can read what gets posted. What guys share outside of this venue is their biz.

IMHO

RT,

Maybe I was a little blunt with the magazine comment- my apologies. I wanted to express a concern with over exposure e.g., fly fishing mags with their continued coverage of the "great waters." Some of these rivers are starting (already there) look like the Hoodsport Chums fishery! Great for tourism but, I am afraid it will lead to too much pressure.

Downriggin'

How about a fishin report, goooose.

A stranger might just be a friend you haven't met yet.

My policy is, what goes around, comes around. I try to help pretty much anyone I can, whenever I can. I think it makes for a more civil and pleasant world. I don't always help them by telling where my favorite water is, but I will tell them where they can buy a map. For the larger bodies of water, like Puget Sound, I don't think it does any harm to show them where to fish.

I've seen folks get all close mouthed and secretive about what lure they use, or how they fish it, and I just shake my head and smile. Pretty juvenile and mean spirited behavior, if you ask me. It doesn't help the perpetrator, and it just makes relations between people worse. I know a lot of people don't care about that, but I find that rather sad.

Now, there are those that might question whether my attempts at help are in fact helpful, but that's another topic.

While posting off-topic and humorous drivel on the boards I've also read. A lot. And from doing that one action I've learned. A lot. I've learned that on the Columbia a silver and charteuse Kwikfish (K12-13 in clear water and bigger in murky water) wrapped with herring (David Johnson showed me how on the Hot Tamale Outdoor Show ). I learned that a person can use colored hot glue to make a deadly egg cluster for steelies.

I've learned a ton more, too. I've learned that a bunch of different anglers can catch the same fish with various different "secret riggings" because they presented it to the right fish the right way at the right time because they've fished it that way hundreds of times. I've learned that any river that is home waters to fish can have zipperlip holes. I've learned not to scratch my ballsack before I bait a hook because man-scent, while it may get you women, doesn't appeal to fish (or something like that). Don't do it after, too, because Borax could give you a rash. Bet you won't see THAT tip on the HTOS, even though it's on cable access.

I've learned that these forums aren't the best place to discover how to catch fish. They're a great place to BS about fishing and meet people that are far more successful at catching fish than I am and then learning from there. Without Mike's help (real names used to protect the innocent) I would never have landed those barnacle-covered rocks or that crab successfully, and without Jim's help that steelhead would still be heading back to the Pacific.

Think of it like those "How to Get More (and Better!) Women" books. They could tell you all the techniques that are proven successful FOR THAT PERSON, IN THAT CIRCUMSTANCE, AT THAT TIME, WITH THAT WOMAN, but in the end you could still find out that it just takes time, practice, and confidence. Same as fishing.

I am glad there are people like you around silver...

Ironic really if you consider what we are discussing. This is the 'information superhighway' we are posting all this information on.

The trouble is that on the one hand we have "fishermen/women", a notoriously closed mouth brethren of people who have a lot of time invested in learning how to catch fish. On the other hand we have 'the internet bulletin board', making the gathering of the sort of information it may have taken others years to compile available to the internet savvy rookie/less experienced fishermen in the click of a few buttons.

A total clash in styles...

The only information I won't give out is known fish holding spots, maybe two or three holes on my home river where, I'll gladly take you should we fish together, but won't post on the internet...

I think the nice thing about this board is that is is multi dimensional. It is a place to share info on everything from tackle to techniques. It is also a place to build and cultivate relationships. The later requires alot of time and patience. It takes showing up in the chat room and talking alot of other things then fishing. I will never give up a guarded spot to someone I don't know, but I might show it to a friend. I think you get out of this board what you put into it. Those that really have a love of fishing will put the time in and get alot out of this forum, those looking only for a report will go away feeling like they are on the outside looking in.

I give info freely when it comes to techniques, run timing and general location information. Info beyond that is given based on who the person is. I am not going to tell someone local all of my favorite spots on my local rivers however if someone from another area is going to be around for just a couple days i'll get more specific.
There are a couple things that no one should ever do. 1. tell other people about a special spot that you were told about by someone else. 2. give false information

Here's how I deal with it...

First, I think that to be a valuable member of such a BB, you have to realize that it's all about give and take. The more you give up, the more you get back.

It doesn't have to be "in kind" give and take. Information about a place that makes good canvas boat covers is likely to be thanked with information about how much leader to use between your hoochie and flasher.

I'll post the occasional report, but it usually mentions everything except the exact spot, unless that exact spot is secret only to those who have never fished for steelhead in Washington.

I'm happy to share any information about techniques, gear, accessories, etc., and any general information about steelhead or steelhead behavior, for whatever it's worth.

The majority of the information that I share is stuff about the scientific, legal, and political issues surrounding steelhead management, since that's where my experience has been for the last several years. That information is generally given with no strings, except for fair and accurate conversations about the topics.

On those types of issues, I think the most important factor is that people DO NOT jump in with an inflammatory comment, then fade back into the woodwork. It's also important that everyone leave emotion and groundless opinion out of the conversation, unless they clearly note that what they're stating is either emotion talking or opinion with nothing other than emotion to back it up.

I also have found that if you want specific information about a particular river or spot, do a search and it's probably been spoken about already. If it hasn't, check the posts that have been made about a similar area or something else about that particular spot you're looking for. Choose a poster that may have the information you're looking for and shoot them off an e-mail. Tell them who you are and what you're looking for, and mention that you're doing it privately so as to not get anyone on the BB bent about passing out such "private" information.

I have not one time had someone refuse me information using the above technique, and have met a few new fishing partners who would rather show me than tell me about an area. That is usually followed up by a future fishing trip to one of "my" spots with that person.

Fish on...

Todd.

Hook up with guys you don't know, because you might just make a new friend, as was already stated. I have taken the "chance" on many ocassions, and I have always run into great folks. This is when I have learned great tips, and spots. Give, and ye shall receive.

This is my first really active year steelheading in over 10 years, and have really enjoyed getting to know some new folks, and some new water. Up to 15 so far this season, and I still have time left.

I have also taken many folks out on my boat, or shown them some of my spots. This I will do one at a time.

If you want info on one of the mass market fishing hotspots like Sekiu, I'll share just about everything down to what underwear I had on and the GPS coordinates. Zipperlips are gifts of great value, so when someone shows me one of those, I will share it sparingly. I hope you understand my thoughts on this issue.

Andy

Meet and greet anglers on the river as well as on the board. I'd be willing to bet somebody I've probably had words with someone on the river, I'm chat buddies with on the BB's...lol Most likely it's vice-versa when you actually meet a person 'in-person'. I'm living 80 proof of that. :p

Dave Jackson, that Mike guy told me to tell you that whenever you get a chance to catch barnacle rocks again, you should come up and do it again...anytime. Of course ya know when the rocks aren't biting, y'all will have a place to go zipper big troutin'.

That Mike guy was telling me this funny story about a guy with a handle of Fobbman (got to protect the innocent ) and how Fobbman was walking backwards and his @ss (literally his @ss)attacked barnacle covered rocks that had beached themselves. Of course the crab was just a bonus by-catch. :p

That Mike guy is the coolest guy in the world. I hear the ladies swoon over his BS all the time. That mofo. I wish I were cool like that Mike guy. And talk about funny, damn that guy is funny.

Meet and greet anglers on the river as well as on the board. I'd be willing to bet somebody I've probably had words with someone on the river, I'm chat buddies with on the BB's...lol Most likely it's vice-versa when you actually meet a person 'in-person'. I'm living 80 proof of that. :p

Dave Jackson, that Mike guy told me to tell you that whenever you get a chance to catch barnacle rocks again, you should come up and do it again...anytime. Of course ya know when the rocks aren't biting, y'all will have a place to go zipper big troutin'.

That Mike guy was telling me this funny story about a guy with a handle of Fobbman (got to protect the innocent ) and how Fobbman was walking backwards and his @ss (literally his @ss)attacked barnacle covered rocks that had beached themselves. Of course the crab was just a bonus by-catch. :p

That Mike guy is the coolest guy in the world. I hear the ladies swoon over his BS all the time. That mofo. I wish I were cool like that Mike guy. And talk about funny, damn that guy is funny.

Like I've said before (being new to the PacNW), dude be friendly and people will be friendly back. If you get 'attacked' = BIG F'N DEAL. Not like 90% of them would actually say this **** to your face if they met you, and you, are being you..not some 'cyber you'.

No kidding. Dupliduplicationcation.

And why did it have to be an old oyster bed that we were walking across (I was on the front end walking backwards while hauling "Mike's" boat) and not a sea sponge bed?

Great topic.... And now for my opinion:

Human nature being what it is, people aren't going to tell you there favorite secrets for free. It's true in NASCAR, it's true in high school math class and it's true in fishing. This is neiher good nor bad.... but it is true.

That being the case, I wouldn't bend my pick trying to change human nature, because another piece of human nature is that people do share secrets with people they like. I gave up on steelheading about 20 years ago after never catching one. Didn't fish for them for five years. Then I met a guy who showed me how. He also befriended me enough to show me some real zippers. And in return, he only asked that I not blab about them. I still fish with him regularly. I've been hard at it for 15 years now. Expanded my knowledge. Catch a few now and again. Have great fun trying.

Now as for this board, I've met some great guys here. Hooked up with a few and had some great times. We've shared spots and techniques, and I've gained some guys that I consider to be good friends (even if I rarely see them).

Bottom line: Neither they nor I were gonna spill our guts out over the internet to someone we didn't know. But meeting up and making a trip out of it has been very successful for me. Not just for new spots, but for new friends which makes it much more enjoyable.

Go about it in a genuine and sincere way and you'll meet some great people to share the outdoors with. As with any friendship, it helps to put something into it as well.

I'm looking forward to putting more faces with names at F-IV, although some of the faces might not be al that purty

ET -- That was one of the best 'right on posts' I've seen here for awhile. Many readers are afraid to buck the 'tide'. My hat is off to you.....You might also have added that when PETA, ALF, or Humane Society goes after those 10% they will want help and votes from the 90% you referred to!! (the guy who catches 1 a year doesn't have much to lose)

Robert --guess again, there are selfish and self-centered members on this board.

Sorry I don't believe in Socializing fishing or the mandatory "sharing or redistribution of the wealth" philosophy. But I do believe in an evolution within an individual fishers philosophy away from "counting coup." Must I guarantee you or everyone parity? Should I by my assistance allow you or anyone to instantly bypass the learning experiences found throughout my lifetime of fishing. Sorry lads I would be doing you no favors in your development as a fishers.

Silver give what you want and fish your life....but childish? And what is one that wants all of the pie now?

H20 sorry no fishin report as I rarely find the need to "count coup."

As I posted I will provide assistance and info but only on my terms.

Gooose-

As to mandatory sharing of the wealth, I'm with you. I don't share because I think it is owed, and I think it is a sad statement on our society that we see so many people that think everything must come easily. I preface most of my trips with, "Well, I hope we'll catch something..." If someone demands to know where to go, and what to do, I dissemble a bit.

I share, to the extent that I do, because I enjoy it. It is the ultimate in selfishness, because I get pleasure for it. And that makes me a little cautious about the sharing, because I only want to share it with people that I will like to be associating with. However, since I find that I like most people, and can learn from most people (if I can just keep my mouth shut!) I find that I can share with many.

You're right - those who want all of the pie now, are, well, impatient, and that certainly does not bode well for their success. But think about it - are the ones who want you to show it all to them now, even capable of receiving what they are told?

I tend to think that the folks who want it easily, will never get it easily, precisely because they won't work for it. And those of us who will work for their fish (and so many other things in life) find that they start to come easily.

So I don't worry about giving hints, because they who aren't worthy, won't benefit.

And, with a little thought in the manner of presentation, we can give them a much more meaningful and durable lesson.

"Present the fly in the foam, Grasshopper."

" But why, Master? The foam makes it so much harder to see the fly."

"Grasshopper, do you see the fish rising in the foam?"

Hmmmm...lets see everyone is a fish slayin god...all equal....100%....voter unity rocks....but guess what we are now catchen our seasons allocation in one month instead of spreading it out.....DOH?!? Think before you think...then speak. Hmmmm... 90% are gonna rollover and quit....because they don't get the secrets immediately? Nuff said.

I do like to BS about my fishing, 'specially if I catch something or if I don't, and I don't really mind telling the people where and when, but I'm pretty much talking about name brand times and places. I also think it's real cool sharing techniques - I've picked some good shait off this board, and hopefully helped a few folks with shait that's worked for me. I don't mention ZLs, and don't talk about how well I did steelheading very much unless it's on the Cow in December But this year I've been salmon fishing more than steelhead - get on these kicks and the steely streams have been kind of crowded down my way anyway. I don't like the b!tchen and whinen threads so I don't open any that have the word "hook" in them, but I do like the general caliber of people on this board - there are some well fish-educated folks posting here. So let's not bash WDFW or each other too much - we all screw up and we've all done a bunch of things wrong, but we all have a bunch of good things to contribute too. And Gooose and the boys (and girl) aren't being elitist GOB/Gs, they are just being the rocks that the river runs over. Damn, gettin' mushy - a Monday after a good weekend of fishin' will do that to me

I think many fine points have been brought up here. I have been fishing for steelhead and salmon since I was a little kid around here, so I've had the opportunity to find and be shown many spots. I was lucky enough to have a step-dad who was an avid steelheader and was also kind enough to drag my butt all over the west side when he went fishing. That opportunity got me off on the right foot, and I've been at it since.

When I'm standing next to somebody on the river, I watch what they're doing. If they're outfishing me, I observe and hopefully learn something. If I'm outfishing them, I'll see if maybe I can help them out with a tip, or a corky of a certain color or something. I really enjoy watching others catch fish, and if you want to see appreciation from somebody.......give them a tip that results in a fish, they'll remember.

By the same token, here on the BB, if someone is asking a question I think I can help with, I'll either post a response or send an email if I think it should be discreet. Of course, I consider who is asking the question before I respond because I tend to treat well those that treat me well.

When it comes to location, a little more discretion is required. If somebody shows me a spot and asks that I not share it.....then that's it, I don't tell people and I don't take people there. The good thing is I've found most of the good water I fish on my own, so I don't have to worry about that too often. I'm more inclined to take people with me when I fish my good water than I am to tell them where it is and let them go about it on their own. I've taken a couple guy from this BB to some spots that I would never tell anyone about, but that's because I "screened" them first and thought they would not discuss these spots if I asked them not to.

Folks are going to have different opinions about how much info should be shared, just like the differing opinions about every other dead horse we've beaten around here. Nobody's getting killed here, so I'm sure it will all work out.......

Dan, I was going to offer up my opinion on the subject...but you beat me to it! I couldn't have stated it any better!

I like your style!

FJ...out.

Dan I hope that offer to teach ol'gooose how catch steelies on jig still stands . Reminder: must have all of Dan's secrets.
Very well put DanS....and the part about helping people on the river was the best of it all.

Three words................"Dan the Man!"

I agree with your good post too Dan. Especially the part about putting this matter into proper perspective with "nobody's getting killed on here." But it seems to bother some that others catch a few fish, so they can't have more than they need? Yes? No?

And Gooose and 'Silton, I'm somewhat confused by the statement that you agree upon - you don't believe in "mandatory sharing or redistribution of the wealth" within the context of this thread. What "mandatory" sharing takes place here? I haven't seen any. That sentence seems more suitably descriptive of left wing legislative politics; and in that arena you have a good point.

Gooose, I'm not trying to be overly critical of your statements (despite me being a likely target of your concern), but I am confused by some things you've brought up in your thread here. You state "I do believe in an evolution within an individual fishers philosophy away from counting coup." Excuse my naivity, I haven't heard of the term 'coup' in this context. And are you saying that you are trying to judge or set other's philosophy by that statement?

As for your questions;

"Must I guarantee you or everyone parity?" - Hell no! You don't have to guarantee that! Has someone pressured you for that on here? If so, don't give them squat!

And "Should I by my assistance allow you or anyone to instantly bypass the learning experiences found throughout my lifetime of fishing." If you don't want to, you shouldn't. But you have no choice of what to "allow" others.

As for your take "Sorry lads I would be doing you no favors in your development as fishers", you have a right to your opinion. My opinion is that it's up to those "lads" to decide what's best for their developement.

And a question for you Gooose - since you stated "As I posted I will provide assistance and info but only on my terms", do you then 'allow' others to provide assistance on their terms? Without undue criticism?

RT

I agree with Dan S. too! Excellent post. And no, Gooose, I certainly don't believe in socialism. Dan S and I are perfect examples of what is going on here. Dan S. grew up here, fished all over and knows all the whats, whens, and wheres to fishing in WA. You all say, "paid his dues." BS... He was born into it, just like money only better. I grew up in WI fishing for bass and muskies(I've got some zipperlips too). Moved out here seven years ago and have been struggling to raise a family and get a little fishing in now and then. My steelhead experience has consisted of Blue Creek and Barrier Dam. Yuck.

I'd love to explore other areas, but whenever I've found time to get away from the family(two young-uns), the bad thoughts creep in, what river? exactly where?, what pole?, what bait?, what if I go where the river is closed?, etc, etc.. That sport fishing rule pamphlet may make perfect sense to you, but it scares the hell out of me.

The point to this is that Dan S. is now in the minority(native stud-fisherman Washingtonian) and I'm in the majority(clueless import). There are what, 4 million people in WA? How many buy a fishing license? How many of those, fish more than once or twice a year? In order to protect the resource(politically) we need MORE happy fishermen. Blue Creek fishermen are not happy no matter how many they snag.

This doesn't mean spill your guts about every place you fish. It means pepper this bulletin board with useful, shareable info whenever possible and less bragging.(Thank you Spawnout. My kids had a great time herring fishing in Westport.) A post saying, "Look at this picture. Joe and I caught this 20lb steelhead on our zipperlip yesterday." makes people envious, and inflates your own ego a bit, but doesn't do anything to promote fishing to the general public. In fact it says, "Look what I was doing while you were working to pay your taxes!" "Oh and would you pay more taxes to support the environment so I can catch more of these beautiful fish while you are working?"

Now that I think about it, "zipperlip" shouldn't be allowed. The word just screams elitism. "I know where to catch them and I'm not going to tell you..." Can't you at least say the river to get me excited? Hell, I'd prefer a lie as long as you didn't send me out fishing on a river that I'd get arrested on.

This is a long post so it will undoubtedly get misconscrued, but remember, if this website weren't so damn good, I wouldn't be posting this at midnight when I have to be up at 5...to work... dammit.

Want to know how to fish Blue Creek? Fine, I'll tell you anything you want to know. I dont have a problem sharing info/ hotspots about 99.9% of the time. However, there are some things that I just won't share. There are some smaller rivers and streams that have no business being mentioned on this BB, not because I'm scared of the compettition, but because most of theses smaller "Zipperlips" cant support the added pressure that exposure on the BB would bring. I don't blame anyone for not wanting to give exact names and locations...... Hell, how do you think we origionally found these "Zipperlips"? We had to find them ourselves. Exploring is a part of fishing too. Find the sweet spots the same way I have...... By getting out and finding them on your own.

Wow, I didn't realize when you post a pic, you're bragging and slamming someone so bad.

Fishhead5

I'm curious, for reference; On a different thread(Possession fishing info up for grabs!), Steel-Addicted and 4Salt shared a ton of info on salmon fishing and shrimping. I've never fished up there, but I'm holding on to that info and now I probably will make the trip this year. In your opinion, did they share too much? Did he make it too easy for me?

On another thread(Topic: Caring about the Resource) Jerry Garcia states that there are 3000 members to this board, and yet there are less then 200 members to WSC. The reason I'm not a member is probably because, like most citizens, I've never caught a wild steelhead and don't have a clue about the state of the resource. I'd most likely support the resource if I was out enjoying it. Again, the idea here is that we need MORE active fishermen not less. Maybe we can turn this thread into a membership drive for WSC... Where do I send my $40??? Anyone else up for the challenge?

Sure goose,

I'll show you what I can when it comes to jigs and floats, but for the lesson to be effective, we should have "class" on some of your favorite holes up there on the H.C.

And ET,

I understand your frustration, but keep at it. Fishing is the key, catching is a nice byproduct. I'll see if I can hook up with you and see if we can get you into some "byproducts" of your own.

ET,

Go to http://www.wildsteelheadcoalition.com for information and membership forms for the Wild Steelhead Coalition.

Fish on,

Todd

RT my friend I didn't even think one thought about you when composing my posts on this thread..sorry. You should already know me well enough that if I had a concern regarding you I'd address it to you directly and privately...oh well. Suggest you reread my posts and consider that I was referring to my specific personal beliefs and no where did I discuss imposing them on anyone...I offer only my personal beliefs as examples. I will make a more specific reply to the points you addressed to me a bit later if you like.

ET many years ago I ended up in Whatcom County for 3 years...did I know the rivers...nope. Here's a little secret of how I learned the Nooksack, Samish, and Skagit. I bought maps...several...got in my truck and explored. First season found plenty of new fishen spots and in the process met some new friends. Moved here to the Canal in 89...same thing...bought maps...got in truck and explored. Any different than moving to those places from out of state?
How far away from Blue Creek do you live and how many rivers are within two hours drive? They all have fish in them at one time or the other.

Lastly...if a bunch of newbies want to quit because thet aren't getting any fish and want to blame it on a selfish few fine with me as all it means is they don't have the dedication to learn
on their own. If they don't have that dedication then of what value would they be in the political trenches I must ask? Am I saying this because I want more fish for myself....anyone that knows me knows that gooose grew beyond the greed stage along time ago.

Thanks for the insight Gooose and Aunty. I didn't get into those threads about new members coming in here with expectations of having their questions automatically answered. I thought Gooose and some others were talking about sharing philosophy in general. If some people have registered and come across as demandive of info, then I agree they deserve what they are likely to get - not much.

ET, about that "3000 members". It's a misconception. Like the other fishing BBs, there are not nearly that many actual members, and only a fraction of which are regularly active. All registrations on these sites are kept as an accumulated record of membership, when in reality many of them have come and are long gone; and many have multiple monikers. You can often recognize an alternate moniker by a very low number of total posts, and primarily used to flame or discredit someone anonymously. If you looked at the top of the BB everytime you logged in you would see the same 'scores' of people all the time - not 'hundreds' of people, let alone 'thousands'. As for accumulated site hits for these BBs, they are quite misleading. They sound like thousands are checking in everyday. Not even a fraction of that. A high percentage of the scores of people logging in everyday do so many many times per day. This is noted by website activity tracking services as "unique" accessor numbers per day or period - a much more reliable indicator; but those aren't usually posted like the misleading hit numbers are. That's why fishing reports on these type of sites aren't really adding significant numbers of fishers to areas reported about; as some contend. The newspaper's fishing reports, particularly the Oregonian and Seattle papers, reach a much larger audience and can add some pressure to hot spots on occassion. ... Just a little reality check, to put this discussion into a more accurate perspective.

Dang It RT I got myself all riled up then you make that last post !

ET your question regarding the info given on that shrimp spot is a good one. You used to be able to shrimp there from May thru October. Then the word got out and the season kept getting shorter and shorter. Its a small area which closed in lees than two weeks last year....add lets say 10% more effort because of the specific info announced to the board and you will see the season shortened 10% earlier. Lets say it increases 50 % then guess what...do you get the picture? Not putting you down but providing the stark truth seems to be the only way to get the message across.

No biggie Gooose. You's be a down and happenin dood, far as we's concerned brah. Hey, "Gooose Down"! Good name idea for a regular scheduled chat session or fishing info column, ay?

Oh ya, I forgot in that last post to mention that not only the big WA & OR newspapers add fishing pressure to some areas, but so do some mags. I seldom see any true zipper river info in STS anymore. But they have over 100,000 subscriptions and 10's of thousands sold on magzine racks all over the NW. I don't know how many F&H News mags are sold or how many NW Fishing News mags are sold. But if you really want to do something about thwarting sensative zipper river info, write letters to the big newspapers and mags. There just isn't a high percentage of fishermen that are tuning into these BBs to get any panties in a bunch over.

GUYS
A secret is not a secret unless somebody wants to know it.A zipperlip is not a....

There are only a few members that can say they have an entire river as a zlip,if any.We do have little bits and pieces of the sytems that we consider sacred.

I personaly add natural bariers to my sacred water,I have found that they allow me a little more freedom with those sacred spots.

One of the biggest pieces of a zlip is not the river but the timing of the run in that river.There is not a river in the state that is not mapped and discussed in one of the many scources {books,maps,magazines,fishing clubs,internet and fellow fisherpeople.}So finding the river is the easy part.What you do not find so easy to find is the run timming.To find the run timming on a system takes a couple of seasons to figure out and verify,at least.There is no way around that.I have spent untold months at a time fishing smaller water not catching anything to discover the magical run timing.My wife cracks me up when she complains that I out fish her.She gets to go at the peak of all my magic times and almost always catches something because of this.I just might catch one more than her.What she refuses to put into the picture is the HUNDREDS of trips where I catch no fish but I learn something...

So finding a zlip as described above has taken many of us a lot of work.It is a right of passage to the obsessed amongst us and the thought of that passage being violated scares us.

I do discuss some of my spots with people I meet on the river because I can evaluate who I am giving the info to.When I evaluate I wonder if he is as obsessed as I am,is he somebody I would want to run into again on the river,possibly on my zlipp,does this person like fishing or catching...DOES THIS PERSON HAVE SOME SPIDER MAN IN HIM? I guess it boils down to will this person appreciate the info?By appreciate I do not mean a thank you,but get a warm fuzzy feeling from knowing that I just pointed him/her towards a spot that I love and know dearly.The few that do take me seriosly usually get there and probably think I am a the biggest idiot that ever fished as they look down into a a seemingly unpassable gorge!

Don't believe me?Here is a hint...shhhh

RIVER: SF Skokomish river
TIMING: June-Jully
TARGET: Summer run steel
SPECIFICS: At the corner of Flat cr. and the s. fork of the skoke.
REQUEST: Email me if you get there uninjured and enjoy.If so maybe we should become fishing partners!

How about we change zipper lip to uncrowded. I've fished the Cowlitz when there have been lots of fish, but only 3 boats. Comments from the other boats. "I hope it's a while for the word gets out, this sure is nice!" ET, tell your wife your going to take the kids fishing with you, see how much she complains. I used to take them to the river with me all the time, diapers included. Me, I'm like Gooose, I've worked hard to find fish and I don't like fishing in crowds.

Fishhead5

AUNTYM,
See what ya get for being an all around favorite around here!!

I cant speak for anyone else but I get the most satisfaction out of catching fish when I crack the puzzle. Not when someone tells me where to go and what to use! Thats what makes salmon and steelhead so fun, the challenge! I'm all for sharing techs, but not about sharing where to fish even if it is the heavily fish sky or nooch. Cause "BOAT TRAFFIC SUCKS"!!!!!!!!! Some people will share info other will whore it! I quess I'm right in the middle, but you can count on no report if we just caught 10 plus steelies in a day. I'm with FH5 on this one!!!!!!!

B M,
You are not the only one!That is what drives me on all those trips when I get to experience the learning side to our wonderfull sport.As sick is it may sound the more challenging the learning curve on a run the better!

ET,

The info shared by 4salt and others on that spot was what I call a "mass market" fishing zone. I call "no foul." You know that there will be lots of folks, and basically you will have an equal chance at the fish. Sekiu is the same way, also Lake Washington sockeye. I couldn't care less if there were 100 more boats there, I would still catch fish, and I would gladly help anyone who wasn't.

Some of these little streams just cant take the pressure of 100 more folks. Some of these places are so small, you can spit across them from bank to bank.

The Washington Atlas and Gazetteer is an excellent book of maps of the state that will show you about 95% of the info you need to know to find some little rivers and streams that hold fish. Had mine for amost 20 years, and it looks it. Get one, a tank of gas, some junk food and have some fun. Best of luck>

Sounds like this thread is all about secrets places no one likes to give out. I agree up to an extent. My fishing expeditions consist mainly salt water so having to tell people what area I got the fish from is fine by me, especially when you get back to the boat launch and Slim has to ask all the bio's, time started, time quit, etc., but I do fish rivers for fillers and understand some of the hush-hush. Course in any type of fishing, it's not what you use but "HOW YOU USE IT". Never fails when you pop fish out of a spot and nobody is around for hundreds of feet, then pretty soon you have people trying to fish the same piece of realty or water. Good-gracious, have a clue!!!! Some people don't know how to read the water, which is probably 80% of what gets fish, or don't know how to fish the tide rips. Ever watch the person knocking-em dead on fish and your using the same set up and color but ain't getting sh!t? TECHNIQUE, TECHNIQUE, TECHNIQUE. That's why everyone can post what they've used to entice the fish to bite, but exactly where and how to, well, that's where the fun begins. Gratification of figuring out how makes it all worth the while. The real secret I'd really like to know is what kinda beer gooose drinks during and after a good day of fish'n. I think that's what makes a day of fishing successful.

"I FISH THEREFORE I LIE"

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"DO THE WILD THANG"