ET -- That was one of the best 'right on posts' I've seen here for awhile. Many readers are afraid to buck the 'tide'. My hat is off to you.....You might also have added that when PETA, ALF, or Humane Society goes after those 10% they will want help and votes from the 90% you referred to!! (the guy who catches 1 a year doesn't have much to lose)

Robert --guess again, there are selfish and self-centered members on this board.

Sorry I don't believe in Socializing fishing or the mandatory "sharing or redistribution of the wealth" philosophy. But I do believe in an evolution within an individual fishers philosophy away from "counting coup." Must I guarantee you or everyone parity? Should I by my assistance allow you or anyone to instantly bypass the learning experiences found throughout my lifetime of fishing. Sorry lads I would be doing you no favors in your development as a fishers.

Silver give what you want and fish your life....but childish? And what is one that wants all of the pie now?

H20 sorry no fishin report as I rarely find the need to "count coup."

As I posted I will provide assistance and info but only on my terms.

Gooose-

As to mandatory sharing of the wealth, I'm with you. I don't share because I think it is owed, and I think it is a sad statement on our society that we see so many people that think everything must come easily. I preface most of my trips with, "Well, I hope we'll catch something..." If someone demands to know where to go, and what to do, I dissemble a bit.

I share, to the extent that I do, because I enjoy it. It is the ultimate in selfishness, because I get pleasure for it. And that makes me a little cautious about the sharing, because I only want to share it with people that I will like to be associating with. However, since I find that I like most people, and can learn from most people (if I can just keep my mouth shut!) I find that I can share with many.

You're right - those who want all of the pie now, are, well, impatient, and that certainly does not bode well for their success. But think about it - are the ones who want you to show it all to them now, even capable of receiving what they are told?

I tend to think that the folks who want it easily, will never get it easily, precisely because they won't work for it. And those of us who will work for their fish (and so many other things in life) find that they start to come easily.

So I don't worry about giving hints, because they who aren't worthy, won't benefit.

And, with a little thought in the manner of presentation, we can give them a much more meaningful and durable lesson.

"Present the fly in the foam, Grasshopper."

" But why, Master? The foam makes it so much harder to see the fly."

"Grasshopper, do you see the fish rising in the foam?"

Hmmmm...lets see everyone is a fish slayin god...all equal....100%....voter unity rocks....but guess what we are now catchen our seasons allocation in one month instead of spreading it out.....DOH?!? Think before you think...then speak. Hmmmm... 90% are gonna rollover and quit....because they don't get the secrets immediately? Nuff said.

I do like to BS about my fishing, 'specially if I catch something or if I don't, and I don't really mind telling the people where and when, but I'm pretty much talking about name brand times and places. I also think it's real cool sharing techniques - I've picked some good shait off this board, and hopefully helped a few folks with shait that's worked for me. I don't mention ZLs, and don't talk about how well I did steelheading very much unless it's on the Cow in December But this year I've been salmon fishing more than steelhead - get on these kicks and the steely streams have been kind of crowded down my way anyway. I don't like the b!tchen and whinen threads so I don't open any that have the word "hook" in them, but I do like the general caliber of people on this board - there are some well fish-educated folks posting here. So let's not bash WDFW or each other too much - we all screw up and we've all done a bunch of things wrong, but we all have a bunch of good things to contribute too. And Gooose and the boys (and girl) aren't being elitist GOB/Gs, they are just being the rocks that the river runs over. Damn, gettin' mushy - a Monday after a good weekend of fishin' will do that to me

I think many fine points have been brought up here. I have been fishing for steelhead and salmon since I was a little kid around here, so I've had the opportunity to find and be shown many spots. I was lucky enough to have a step-dad who was an avid steelheader and was also kind enough to drag my butt all over the west side when he went fishing. That opportunity got me off on the right foot, and I've been at it since.

When I'm standing next to somebody on the river, I watch what they're doing. If they're outfishing me, I observe and hopefully learn something. If I'm outfishing them, I'll see if maybe I can help them out with a tip, or a corky of a certain color or something. I really enjoy watching others catch fish, and if you want to see appreciation from somebody.......give them a tip that results in a fish, they'll remember.

By the same token, here on the BB, if someone is asking a question I think I can help with, I'll either post a response or send an email if I think it should be discreet. Of course, I consider who is asking the question before I respond because I tend to treat well those that treat me well.

When it comes to location, a little more discretion is required. If somebody shows me a spot and asks that I not share it.....then that's it, I don't tell people and I don't take people there. The good thing is I've found most of the good water I fish on my own, so I don't have to worry about that too often. I'm more inclined to take people with me when I fish my good water than I am to tell them where it is and let them go about it on their own. I've taken a couple guy from this BB to some spots that I would never tell anyone about, but that's because I "screened" them first and thought they would not discuss these spots if I asked them not to.

Folks are going to have different opinions about how much info should be shared, just like the differing opinions about every other dead horse we've beaten around here. Nobody's getting killed here, so I'm sure it will all work out.......

Dan, I was going to offer up my opinion on the subject...but you beat me to it! I couldn't have stated it any better!

I like your style!

FJ...out.

Dan I hope that offer to teach ol'gooose how catch steelies on jig still stands . Reminder: must have all of Dan's secrets.
Very well put DanS....and the part about helping people on the river was the best of it all.

Three words................"Dan the Man!"

I agree with your good post too Dan. Especially the part about putting this matter into proper perspective with "nobody's getting killed on here." But it seems to bother some that others catch a few fish, so they can't have more than they need? Yes? No?

And Gooose and 'Silton, I'm somewhat confused by the statement that you agree upon - you don't believe in "mandatory sharing or redistribution of the wealth" within the context of this thread. What "mandatory" sharing takes place here? I haven't seen any. That sentence seems more suitably descriptive of left wing legislative politics; and in that arena you have a good point.

Gooose, I'm not trying to be overly critical of your statements (despite me being a likely target of your concern), but I am confused by some things you've brought up in your thread here. You state "I do believe in an evolution within an individual fishers philosophy away from counting coup." Excuse my naivity, I haven't heard of the term 'coup' in this context. And are you saying that you are trying to judge or set other's philosophy by that statement?

As for your questions;

"Must I guarantee you or everyone parity?" - Hell no! You don't have to guarantee that! Has someone pressured you for that on here? If so, don't give them squat!

And "Should I by my assistance allow you or anyone to instantly bypass the learning experiences found throughout my lifetime of fishing." If you don't want to, you shouldn't. But you have no choice of what to "allow" others.

As for your take "Sorry lads I would be doing you no favors in your development as fishers", you have a right to your opinion. My opinion is that it's up to those "lads" to decide what's best for their developement.

And a question for you Gooose - since you stated "As I posted I will provide assistance and info but only on my terms", do you then 'allow' others to provide assistance on their terms? Without undue criticism?

RT

I agree with Dan S. too! Excellent post. And no, Gooose, I certainly don't believe in socialism. Dan S and I are perfect examples of what is going on here. Dan S. grew up here, fished all over and knows all the whats, whens, and wheres to fishing in WA. You all say, "paid his dues." BS... He was born into it, just like money only better. I grew up in WI fishing for bass and muskies(I've got some zipperlips too). Moved out here seven years ago and have been struggling to raise a family and get a little fishing in now and then. My steelhead experience has consisted of Blue Creek and Barrier Dam. Yuck.

I'd love to explore other areas, but whenever I've found time to get away from the family(two young-uns), the bad thoughts creep in, what river? exactly where?, what pole?, what bait?, what if I go where the river is closed?, etc, etc.. That sport fishing rule pamphlet may make perfect sense to you, but it scares the hell out of me.

The point to this is that Dan S. is now in the minority(native stud-fisherman Washingtonian) and I'm in the majority(clueless import). There are what, 4 million people in WA? How many buy a fishing license? How many of those, fish more than once or twice a year? In order to protect the resource(politically) we need MORE happy fishermen. Blue Creek fishermen are not happy no matter how many they snag.

This doesn't mean spill your guts about every place you fish. It means pepper this bulletin board with useful, shareable info whenever possible and less bragging.(Thank you Spawnout. My kids had a great time herring fishing in Westport.) A post saying, "Look at this picture. Joe and I caught this 20lb steelhead on our zipperlip yesterday." makes people envious, and inflates your own ego a bit, but doesn't do anything to promote fishing to the general public. In fact it says, "Look what I was doing while you were working to pay your taxes!" "Oh and would you pay more taxes to support the environment so I can catch more of these beautiful fish while you are working?"

Now that I think about it, "zipperlip" shouldn't be allowed. The word just screams elitism. "I know where to catch them and I'm not going to tell you..." Can't you at least say the river to get me excited? Hell, I'd prefer a lie as long as you didn't send me out fishing on a river that I'd get arrested on.

This is a long post so it will undoubtedly get misconscrued, but remember, if this website weren't so damn good, I wouldn't be posting this at midnight when I have to be up at 5...to work... dammit.

Want to know how to fish Blue Creek? Fine, I'll tell you anything you want to know. I dont have a problem sharing info/ hotspots about 99.9% of the time. However, there are some things that I just won't share. There are some smaller rivers and streams that have no business being mentioned on this BB, not because I'm scared of the compettition, but because most of theses smaller "Zipperlips" cant support the added pressure that exposure on the BB would bring. I don't blame anyone for not wanting to give exact names and locations...... Hell, how do you think we origionally found these "Zipperlips"? We had to find them ourselves. Exploring is a part of fishing too. Find the sweet spots the same way I have...... By getting out and finding them on your own.

Wow, I didn't realize when you post a pic, you're bragging and slamming someone so bad.

Fishhead5

I'm curious, for reference; On a different thread(Possession fishing info up for grabs!), Steel-Addicted and 4Salt shared a ton of info on salmon fishing and shrimping. I've never fished up there, but I'm holding on to that info and now I probably will make the trip this year. In your opinion, did they share too much? Did he make it too easy for me?

On another thread(Topic: Caring about the Resource) Jerry Garcia states that there are 3000 members to this board, and yet there are less then 200 members to WSC. The reason I'm not a member is probably because, like most citizens, I've never caught a wild steelhead and don't have a clue about the state of the resource. I'd most likely support the resource if I was out enjoying it. Again, the idea here is that we need MORE active fishermen not less. Maybe we can turn this thread into a membership drive for WSC... Where do I send my $40??? Anyone else up for the challenge?

Sure goose,

I'll show you what I can when it comes to jigs and floats, but for the lesson to be effective, we should have "class" on some of your favorite holes up there on the H.C.

And ET,

I understand your frustration, but keep at it. Fishing is the key, catching is a nice byproduct. I'll see if I can hook up with you and see if we can get you into some "byproducts" of your own.

ET,

Go to http://www.wildsteelheadcoalition.com for information and membership forms for the Wild Steelhead Coalition.

Fish on,

Todd

RT my friend I didn't even think one thought about you when composing my posts on this thread..sorry. You should already know me well enough that if I had a concern regarding you I'd address it to you directly and privately...oh well. Suggest you reread my posts and consider that I was referring to my specific personal beliefs and no where did I discuss imposing them on anyone...I offer only my personal beliefs as examples. I will make a more specific reply to the points you addressed to me a bit later if you like.

ET many years ago I ended up in Whatcom County for 3 years...did I know the rivers...nope. Here's a little secret of how I learned the Nooksack, Samish, and Skagit. I bought maps...several...got in my truck and explored. First season found plenty of new fishen spots and in the process met some new friends. Moved here to the Canal in 89...same thing...bought maps...got in truck and explored. Any different than moving to those places from out of state?
How far away from Blue Creek do you live and how many rivers are within two hours drive? They all have fish in them at one time or the other.

Lastly...if a bunch of newbies want to quit because thet aren't getting any fish and want to blame it on a selfish few fine with me as all it means is they don't have the dedication to learn
on their own. If they don't have that dedication then of what value would they be in the political trenches I must ask? Am I saying this because I want more fish for myself....anyone that knows me knows that gooose grew beyond the greed stage along time ago.

Thanks for the insight Gooose and Aunty. I didn't get into those threads about new members coming in here with expectations of having their questions automatically answered. I thought Gooose and some others were talking about sharing philosophy in general. If some people have registered and come across as demandive of info, then I agree they deserve what they are likely to get - not much.

ET, about that "3000 members". It's a misconception. Like the other fishing BBs, there are not nearly that many actual members, and only a fraction of which are regularly active. All registrations on these sites are kept as an accumulated record of membership, when in reality many of them have come and are long gone; and many have multiple monikers. You can often recognize an alternate moniker by a very low number of total posts, and primarily used to flame or discredit someone anonymously. If you looked at the top of the BB everytime you logged in you would see the same 'scores' of people all the time - not 'hundreds' of people, let alone 'thousands'. As for accumulated site hits for these BBs, they are quite misleading. They sound like thousands are checking in everyday. Not even a fraction of that. A high percentage of the scores of people logging in everyday do so many many times per day. This is noted by website activity tracking services as "unique" accessor numbers per day or period - a much more reliable indicator; but those aren't usually posted like the misleading hit numbers are. That's why fishing reports on these type of sites aren't really adding significant numbers of fishers to areas reported about; as some contend. The newspaper's fishing reports, particularly the Oregonian and Seattle papers, reach a much larger audience and can add some pressure to hot spots on occassion. ... Just a little reality check, to put this discussion into a more accurate perspective.

Dang It RT I got myself all riled up then you make that last post !

ET your question regarding the info given on that shrimp spot is a good one. You used to be able to shrimp there from May thru October. Then the word got out and the season kept getting shorter and shorter. Its a small area which closed in lees than two weeks last year....add lets say 10% more effort because of the specific info announced to the board and you will see the season shortened 10% earlier. Lets say it increases 50 % then guess what...do you get the picture? Not putting you down but providing the stark truth seems to be the only way to get the message across.