RA3,
I think the people who try and force their moralities on others have done far greater harm to the world then those who have hooked a few fish on the outside of the mouth....but given your argument is strictly emotional, you may not be able to see the truth in that.

Craven morehead

I disagree I think people deciding that morality is a personal choice to believe or not to believe has done misslions(literally) times more damage than people pushing their morality on other people. Granted we are gatting away from the topic at hand but as an example Hitler decided to forego morality by ignoreing a small well known passage "thou shalt not commit Murder" because he wanted to make up his own morality and suggest that certain people it didn't matter if you murdered them or not. The same could be said for Stalin. Another example would be senator Mcarthy who ignored our constitution, ignored the morality of government as laid down by our founding fathers to pursue a witch huntof UnAmerican activities.
When people set aside morality things go bad PERIOD!

Granted, we are only talking about fishing but when someone chooses to set aside ethics in the sport it is bad for all of us. Your own personal rights to do whatever you want are NOT more important that everyone elses rights. There are long established traditions in salmon and steelhead fishing, to maintain the quaity of experience that we all seek we all must abide by thoes traditions. If everyone started fishing over spawning fish ( on redds) we would quickly have no fish left.

We need morals wether in life of on the river and people need to abide by them.

RA3 I think that you are mixing up "morality" and "ethics", especially since you use them interchangably. There is probably a difference. "Morality" implies the rules set down by the Almighty, and I really doubt that God much gives a hoot whether or not we line or snag fish. "Ethics" implies conformity to common human values, and that is more likely what we are talking about. Big difference.

Thumper.. it's probably time for this thread to die but anyway... Ethics and morality may not be interchangable but the concept of both are very much related. They are both rules for governing behavior. All i am saying is that some behaviors should not be displayed on a stream by anyoe, let alone thoes professiong to be sportsmen. I believe that as an absolute because i don't feel that I have the right to go out and ruin anyone elses day. Snaggers very often ruin the day foreveryone else, just like the guy who achors up in the middle of a trolling area. wether it's morality or ethincs or whateverr else we choose to call it people should behave properly while in the field, if they don't they show disrespect for everyone else out there and for the resource itself. it is such people I am referring to when i use strong language. I think it is unsportsman like to snag a fish no matter the species, the purpose you have for the fish or the willingness of that species to bite.
Snagging IS ethically wrong no one should ever be doing it for any reason.

RA3 Your right about snagging on most species, and of course none of us would condone anyone snagging in an Redd area. Never!

But...If you truly believe Quote-"Snagging is ethically wrong and no one should ever be allowed to do it" Maybe you alone have the answer?
There are many states,LOTS, which allow it to remove an over abundance of certian fish from a system.
They could kill them or... allow people to buy licenses, and contribute money to the Game Dept, and inturn, take some fish home to feed to their families?
Which would you do if you ran the Game Dept?

Could all of these states and their highly educated biologists be wrong and you are right?
Remember, All you "Purist", next time you land a fish and even though it's hooked on the inside of the mouth (All but 2 of my sockeye were)you should release it, because you can't be 100% certian beyond doubt,you didn't accidentally "Floss it"

I don't have the answer, Everytime I think I do someone always shows me another way.

Just my .O2

GEE

G-Man and RA3 in every case given those types of behaviours are socially acceptable for those fisheries....simple as that. In Washington snagging is prohibited because it was found to be a socially unacceptable form of taking fish in Washington. In regards to socalled flossing I suggest the difference between flossing and snagging is that in the first case someone is actively trying to hook the fish in the mouth whereas with snagging someone is only trying to hook the fish somewhere between the mouth and the tail. I fished boondoggin style(flossing?) for steelies for the first time this year and all of my few fish were hooked inside the mouth and the many fish my friends hooked were inside the mouth. Were we attempting to snag? No. Was it unsportsmanlike? No...certainly not with 8 pound test. I can see the difference.

Interesting post Spawnout. So, how can you ever be sure that you haven't flossed? And if you are using a trailer hook that hangs back a bit, isn't that kind of cheating? If the fish didn't really want to swallow your bait, but just scare it away, and ends up getting hooked, shouldn't trailer hooks be immoral? Maybe we should only get to keep the fish that swallow our lure.... Kind of takes all the fun out of fishing doesn't it?

People... They are FISH.... Surely you cant be serious about this. Yes, protect the fishery, but what is allowed is allowed, vent your anger at meetings... geesh.

It must be nice not to have to wear waders and walk on water like RA3. :rolleyes: :p

Thank you RA3, you made my point EXACTLY!
In your above post, you mention both Hitler and McCarthy.... both of these people decided to take the law of the land and change it to fit their own personal views because they, as individuals, with their own ideals of morality deemed it improper....now...how does this differ from you? The law of the land in BC allows for this flossing technique....but you, as an individual, want to impose your own morality on everyone, because YOU, deem it improper.

As I said before, I didn't think you would be able to see the truth in this.

Craven,

it is common for laws to allow and encourage unethical behavior. What i am saying is that ethical anglers will not want to participate and unethical fishermen ruin everyone elses experience. Suggesting that we are only talking about Canada is absurd. because these same people come down here and do the exact same thing here. It DOES breed anglers who really do not care how they catch fish and when a fish is hard to catch they will resort to snagging. I have seen it a thousand times. If it was limited to the frasier river sockeye i probably wouldn't have said anything but the fact is it is not. on top of that it is becoming an accepted method of angling everywhere.
Snagging is unethical period if anyione has a problem with that well then they are more concerned about themselves than the resource or other people and that by deffinition makes them selfish.
Thats the simple application of login NOT my opinion.

RA3....as has been stated several times, this thread was started about flossing fish in the Fraser...where it is a legal practice ....that is the period.

I think everyone on this board will agree that intentionally trying to stick a hook into a fish by yanking hooks through the water several times a drift is wrong morally, ethically and legally....but the rub comes into play when you want to lump a group of people fishing a legal technique (that you don't agree with) in a place that it is legal to do so.....and you blanketly label all of them "scumbags" and continue your rants in the face of logic

Well, I thought this thread would be dead by now. Just my two cents worth but ..... I think that we are now taking away from what this board is for. How about taking it to the Chat Room instead? Thanks...

How about letting the moderators moderate the BB.

That's what you are doing right Dan? :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

It was only a suggestion.

I'll agree in this case, I think this horse was dead some time ago