Just got the renewal for one of my 4 boat trailers. Fee went from around
$12 last year to $36.50 this year. I called DMV thinking it was a mistake
and found out that the legislature cleaned up the confused ballot that was
passed last year. So instead of no new taxes all trailers, mopeds,
motorcycles will be at a new rate of over $30.

So I called my local representative to find out what is going on and was
told that thanks to Mary Margret Haugen, Chair of the Senate
Transportation Committee (representing the 10th District) that she pushed
this through. Supposedly, the senate passed some bill to clean up the
confused ballot and this is what we ended up with. My representative
claimed he was unaware that the end result was a 200 + % increase.

So, if you think dragging your db trailer or small boat trailer down the road
at a rate higher than automobiles is fair do nothing. If you think this is an
end run around what we as voters told our elected representatives when
we passed the tax and auto tabs initaitive then call Ms. Haugen and the
Governor and ask them how we got screwed when they screwed up. Also
call your local representatives and let them know how you feel. I did and
got a phone call from one of mine tonight

Giz...

You know what really ticks me off is that those A-Holes aren't going to give us anyting more for our money. All they want ot do is find ways to part you from your dollars. Well I guesse thats what happens when uninformed/misguided do gooders vote for liberals.

For those of you who are liberal and offended by these comments Good!

The OregonTV news had the fee going from $10 to $52....much more than a 200+ increase..
on a 16 foot trailer.

yup mine went from 12.50 to $54.00

So an $80,000 Mercedes that is driven everyday pays less for tabs that a $1,200 boat trailer that is used a few times a year?

Great.

I think the state thinks all boat owners are rich.

Have you noticed how the WS Ferries screw the guy towing a little boat?

Yikes!! My doesn't come due until next July, but I don't want to pay those fees!

Please take the time to contact your sentor and representatives. Here's the link...all you have to do is enter your zipcode send them an email describing your feelings on this issue: http://dfind.leg.wa.gov/dfinder.cfm

This does really suck to many licenses to even keep track of. I am still trying to figure out why I even pay for a camper license no steering wheel no tires. The truck is license and I pay tonage what is that for?? I saw above that the oregon is also going up are your tabs good for two years. Washington tabs are due every year. They get you one way or another. I used to think a state income tax would be more fair at least you can put it in your federal taxes . Put with our politions they would figure out how to get even more out of us any chance they get. With sales tax at almost 9% and the highest alcohol and tabacco taxes around what more to they want. I make a paycheck they take taxes out of it , I buy something they take some more, then I go to the dump and they tax that and if I have any left when I die they will tax that. I have to laugh when I look at my dads property taxes. He is on a fixed income has lived and paid property tax his whole live and served his country in WWII. He now pays every five years on property taxes what he paid for the house. That is why I now vote for the people I think will solve some of our goverment waste and overspending.

Troller,

Bottom line is that out of the 50 states, WA is in the top 10 (#7?) for the amount of $$ per capita that it extracts from it's citizens.

But like Vic said, we consistently elect liberals so we reap what we sow.

Right.............it's the liberals. Just like when the stock market goes down, the terrorists attack, drug use goes up, and it rains too much.

Boy, I wish I was a faultless conservative.

Did you read about Dick Cheney and the 5 BILLION dollar Navy stealth fighter debacle? Of course not.........because Dick Cheney is a conservative and THEY never waste gov't money right?

$54 dollar tabs would be more than half the value of my beat up 12-foot trailer

BD

I guess we all have opinions about our countries politics. I think both sides have problems and dont agree with either side being to one side or the other. Maybe that is why third party canidates have become more popular. The republicans lost with the moral majority and the demos totally hacked me off when they decided that I am not smart enough to own a gun. I also think both sides have good ideas it is to bad they cant work together. I guess that is why I am for term limits. I dont take sides anymore just vote on the issues that mean the most to myself and my family. thats enough of that If anyone ever brought up politics while i was fishin It would mean a quick trip back to shore for them. It takes away from the relaxation and enjoyment of fishing. I actually gave up arguing politics a long time ago dont need the raise in blood pressure.

Yeah, O thought it was pretty cool having my trailer fees go from 12 bucks to 33 this year. That's only 20 bucks less than my tabs for my 2000 Silverado, and my trailer doesn't have 4 wheel drive or leather seats. I plan on contacting my reps about this issue soon. Has anyone else noted an increase in their boat tabs? Mine stayed the same but my dad said his were around 400 dollars this year.

Got my "surprise" when I went in to renew the trailer license a few days before Labor Day. Had to pay last years tab fee (good for four days), and the new "supersized" fee. I wrote DOL a check that was equal to the value of my ancient Holsclaw trailer

If the legislature doesn't correct this oversight next session, boat owners should run an initiative making $10 trailer tab fees mandatory. How hard would it be to get signatures for that one at the boat ramps. Be sure to give your reps an earful, when you see your renewal notice.

This is why I am all for ending political parties. No democrats, no republicans. just people and issues. No more big money deciding what laws get passed. This way we would get a TRUE reflection of local views. Not some tilted "party" view just to get the votes. I almost always vote republican, but on occasion swing to the left if I feel that person has good ideas. Most republicans share our outdoor ideas better then the democrats. So that is one other reason I vote that way. But it is also high time to UnLocke Washington. I have heard enough of "I will fix the roads and traffic". By raising every tax he can. He needs to fix his cranial-rectal issue.

I got a big shock when I renewed my tabs on the boat this year. Last year I had an old Almar sled that as I recall cost me about thirty bucks for the sticker. Now I've got a new Alumaweld Super Vee and got nailed for a hundred and thirty bucks! When I asked what that was all about they said it was based on the value of the boat, %$#^& !! So with the trailer and boat I'm paying a hundred and thirty bucks for having a boat. I guess it's still cheaper than hiring a guide for each trip!

Bentrod:

My point is simply that the leadership of this state is ineffective. Washington state has one of the highest gas taxes in the country, and up until I-695 had some of the highest vehicle excise taxes. Not to mention a couple Billion Dollar suprplus in the general fund. Did they (the predominently liberal state government) do anything with the money that was earmerked to improve roads to fix the traffic problems in this state. NO!!!! Has traffic continued to worsen? YES!!! Where did that money go??? I for one would like to know that If I am being asked to paying more in taxes (in the trailer liscense fee case we weren't asked at all they unilaterally decided that we would pay more) that I am getting something more for my money. To this point they just take and take and take... If you are happy being a sheep and being fleeced by Govenor Gridocke and his merry men everytime they get cold. Then by all means continue to vote for the same ineffective liberal sissy's that are currently running this state.

Would like to hear your perspective on this. Since you are asking me for advice on how you should vote I am betting that you are one of the underinformed/misguided do-gooders that keep electing these dorks and don't have one.

Hey Dan:

Where would I find the info about the Navy Stealth Fighter? Would love to read about it.

Not sure if this is something that would work in Washington state but we have something of a loop hole in Idaho for drift boat trailers. We simply call them utility trailers and can get a 10 year sticker for like 20 dollars. On larger boats, we also have an good program. You can pick the county your money goes to when you renew your sticker every year. That way, the money you pay goes to the county that you fish in most often, for ramp improvement etc. In many cases, the countys that see the most fishing days are rurel, with low tax base. This helps a lot. Instead of the money going to the state which is really just a black hole..

One more good deal... Drift boats don't need stickers etc. They are concidered white water craft just like a raft etc.

Last I heard, Tim Eiman was not an elected official. If you guys would look back a ways, I think you'll find that this is a direct result. That initiative, whether you think it was wrong or right, took millions in revenues out of the state's pocket. They've simply found a way to get it back.

Frankly I find it ironic that someone with a 2k 4X4 with leather seats is complaining about a ding on his trailer tabs. I wonder how that annual licensing fee compares to his monthly payment?

Not that I want to get involved in a political debate with you all, but I am compelled to say my part too. (must be influenced by the dark side)

I cannot seem to gripe too much about the tab issue as it is now. I own a 2000 Explorer and my tabs would be about $200 give or take a year if not for the new laws. Even the increase is better than what we had!

As for the boat trailer, I have not licensed my 17' for a while since rebuilding, but my dad has a 24' with a King trailer. His tabs are not cheap, but it could be worse if they went of total value under the old sysytem........

We do have two new stadiums to pay for don't we?? I mean we did vote to build them didn't we??

Hi Skywalker:

When I-695 passed the State had a couple billion dolar surplus. 2 things bother me about that 1) they knew we had a traffic problem then and they had the money to do something about it and did nothing 2) That money belonged to the taxpayers. They had more than they were using, and continued to tax us exhorbinate amounts. Tax relief/tax reform is somthing that this state desperately needs. But our elected officials just don't get it. I for one applaud Tim Eiman's inniatives, If nothing else they send a message to Olympia that we are fed up with the way they are running things.

Vic,

Check the Smithsonian Air & Space Magazine, March 2002 issue for a brief run down. For an in-depth accounting: Downing the Avenger, The $5 Billion Misunderstanding and the Collapse of the Navy Stealth Bomber Program by James P. Stevenson, Naval Instiitute Press, 2001.

Just an example how we get it coming from the Dems and going from the Repubs. Both parties have become an abomination, and as long as we keep voting party lines, abominable candidates is what we'll get in office.

Good reading.............

Oooohhhh, don't go there. We only voted for ONE of those stadiums. The political machine passed the "house that Griffey built". Gag, choke, cough.

Skywalker:

If you will remember correctly we didn't vote for either of them. We voted on a salestax increase to pay for the construction of Safeco Field. Not weather or not we should build safeco field.

The grass always seem greener on the other side for some reason. You could live here in Oreoland and get to pay 9% of your check without spending a dime. You guys don't have to pay unless you spend it. I pay before I get to see how much I've got. Oregon is not where you want to move to.

Isn't it nice that we paid for the tool that is now being used to fleece everybody who goes to a game. 300 bucks for a family to see a stinking ball bame 7.50 for a lousy beer. As far as the tab deal goes we can't win, you can pass any initiative you want and the politicos will find another way to get into you wallet. The 30 dollar tab we all voted for does not exist.

This state never ceases to amaze me... First they throw out 695 because it is improperly worded. Then, since they aren't getting enough money from tabs(although they have no idea exactly where this new revenue is going to go) they reword the tab issue and take out the (minor) word 'motor' to make the issue less confusing!?? I can't speak for all of you but what the heck is confusing about the word motor??? Either you have a motorized vehicle or you don't
I have never sat there and thought...Hmmmn, maybe I could put a V-8 in my utility trailer or that I actually would have considered my boat trailer to be motorized. The whole reason I don't have a bigger boat yet is that in need a vehicle with a larger MOTOR!!! Not a larger motorized trailer!!

Where lies the confusion ???

The only confusion I have is how these jokers are keeping their jobs.. If any company in the private sector was to run their business the way this state does they wouldn't be around very long.

Well I am just going to get the two day license for my trailer and keep that in the vehicle. I refuse to pay $50 a year to keep my utility trailer up to date...I'll take my chances without the tabs... All kinds of cops hang out around the trash dump

As far as my boat trailer...If the money were to go to parks or to off set launching fee I'd be all for it. Or hey! Maybe we could even fix up some of the launches?? After all a boat is a luxury item and you'll always be dinged or those types.

Hi GIZ,I just followed your advice and sent them all a letter asking how could they allow this to happen let them know this is nothing but a RIPOFF on taxpaying VOTERS !!! an that it would be wise to do something about this
before election time.
Bob

CDSEATTLE,thanks for the link,I used it and hope everyone on this board uses it also.
Bob

Yo Vic,

My Rush Limbaugh worshipping compadre, as residents of Snohomish county, you and I didn't vote on anything that had to do with Safeco field. The "funding" came from an added tax on hotel rooms and rental cars in Seattle.

So unless you was playin' hide the salami with your secretary in a Seattle hotel room, and driving a rental car so's the wife wouldn't smell any perfume, you probably didn't pay all that much to have it built.

I encourage everyone affected by this issue to SEND A LETTER. Don't bother with e-mail, letters are much more effective. And be polite...

Be polite he says. We are getting it in the and he says be polite.

How about everytime you pass some one with a boat trailer, you just slow down and match their speed. Pretty soon we would have boats, 3, 4 or 5 abreast going down I-5 at 30 miles an hour. Bet that would get thier attention.

if you don't spend the money, then what do you do with it???

its the same either way, they get their 9 points up front or down the road. and we don't get a deduction for that up here.

Good point.

You know that line on your 1040 deductions that says "Taxes Paid"? Well, we lucky Wa. residents DON'T get to put our sales tax in there.

If you could get the state to enact an income tax AND repeal the sales tax, we'd be much better off.

You'll probably see that happen on the same day that pigs fly out my ass...........

I got an aswer from REP. DUNN,according to him it was all the democrats and that yes it is a RIPOFF.GIVE ME A BREAK,no way will I ever
believe that not 1 Republican, didn't vote for this.This is a crock of B.S. and just plain passing the buck.
REMEMBER this come time to vote !!
Bob

Dawhunt,

I'm with you. I don't believe that not 1 republican voted for it.

But, I'll bet you that most democrats voted for it and most republicans were against.

Did you ever notice how the politicians of Washington State (Democrats) are experts at jabbing at your hot buttons? Threaten to close hatcheries if the WDFW is hurting for money... Don't want to pay $500 for tabs on the SUV? We'll hit your hot button and take your boat trailer as if it was a car...not waste cutting first but hot buttons first so you numb headed Democratic zombies won't feel so bad paying yet another tax. They call taxes "investments"... And you probably think that is a fact. Raise the gas tax...raise the sales tax...raise license fees and you will get better roads and better parks and more boat ramps and save your hatcheries etc etc etc...What you really get is a smaller paycheck and $600,000 honey buckets for bums and a fancy new free apartment building for alcoholics, welfare for illegal aliens, hundreds of miles of bicycle lanes...more car pool lanes and a DSHS beaurecracy that wastes more money ever single second of the day than we all will make in our entire lives.....So vote Gary Locke..Ron Simms...Maria Cantwell...Patty Murray...and Jim McDermott....pay your damn high taxes and take another bong hit.

Hey gramps,

You wanna list all the cuts the state GOP has proposed to solve the budgetary shortfalls.

Anyone can talk the talk, I've yet to see ANY politician, Demo OR repub, walk the walk. They ALL have their pork they won't cut.....the only question is which way we'll be hosed.

Tax and spend OR Cut taxes and spend anyway

Real savory choice, huh?

If you think your problems are going to solved by voting the straight GOP ticket, then it sounds like you've visited the bong a few times too many yourself.

So true,
Dan your a comic.

Given the poor choices in the voting booth I would most likely vote for someone who believes that the money I earn is mine and not for someone who believes that the money is the governments (ie 99% of Democrats)
ps: I don't need anyone to fight for my right to earn minimum wage....By the way do you drive a Ford truck?

4Salt:

If you remember corectly the innniative to increase the sales tax to build Safeco Field was a state wide inniative that failed 51% against raising the sales tax and 49% for raising the tax. The current tax package was plan B after the first inniative failed.

FYI I don't really care for Rush. Alot of what he says is strictly to stir up the you know what. I prefer to listen to Michael Medved.

Hey Dan:

Acouple of weeks ago there was a King County Council member who proposed changing the districts to eliminate 5 of the 12 KingCounty Council Seats. I don't remember his name, but they had him on John Carlson's show for an hour discussing this issue. He was an "R" (I wish I could make that a bold shiney R). He said that eliminating the 5 seats and their staff would save the county 3 Million dollars a year. If that isn't puttin your huevos on the chopping block and doing what is right I don't know what is. I have have lost track of this issue, but I am sure Ron Tax to the Max Sims "d" (I wish I could make that a smaller dingier d especially for that jerk) isn't happy about it.

Honorable Gary Gridlocke,

Although you do not remember me, I remember you well when I personally asked you about your intentions to preserve Washington's fisheries. I asked about traffic, I asked about taxes, I asked about your vision for Washington's future... I think Fred Astaire placed a close second to your tap routine to my questioning.

By chance, have you played Sim City?

Concerned Citizen (...and searching for fish),
Downriggin'

Don't get me wrong, Vic. I'm not a bleeding-heart liberal type, although I do tend to look for middle of the road candidates, and I find more of them listed under (D) than (R). I didn't vote for Gary Locke because he's a completely ineffective Governor. I wouldn't vote for Ellen Craswell because she was a fundamentalist-type conservative.

It's like I said. If a Republican congress gives you a tax cut, while Dick Cheney and his defense contractor friends are fleecing us with the Navy stealth bomber programs, then we see the national debt become an issue. How responsible is it to pass OUR tax burden on to our kids? Someone earlier said "It's our money". True, but in bad years it's also our debt. If we expect a tax rebate in budget surplus years, then wouldn't you expect a tax increase in budget deficit years?

In any case, I think we can all agree that this trailer tab thing is a fargin' joke. If people make calls to Mary Margaret Haugens office until she can't take it any more, then maybe we can get a change.

Man, politics is such a cesspool. It's become a business in which politicians and votes are bought and sold, corruption is rampant, and the one constant is we're getting screwed. Just vote for your candidate......but you really ought to base your decision on more than just TV ads and sound bites........something both parties spend millions of dollars producing.

Feeling sore yet?

Anyone wanna guess what Washington's next tax (or increase) will be?

How 'bout this? After the toll for the Narrows Bridge goes into effect, I speculate that I-5 from Olympia to Everett will have tolls between the counties. Now this is the answer for traffic congestion huh?

So, I got a response from each of the Representatives for District 1, but my senator has yet to respond.

Here's the deal: it don't matter if it's a car, trailer, truck, SUV, motorcycle or motorhome - the state charges $30 for the annual registration. County and local fees are added to get your final bill.

Here's what Rep. Edwards had to say:

"Before the passage of I-695, all trailers were
charged a license fee. With implementation of I-695 by the Legislature, the
fee was dropped and it basically became $3 (plus some local fees).

Last session, SSB 6814 was passed and that reinstalled the licensing fee to
$30 plus local county fees. The jump from $3 to $30 was very drastic,
especially when you add the local fees!

Sec. 7. RCW 46.16.0621 and 2000 1st sp.s. c 1 s 1 are each amended to read
as follows:
(1) License tab fees shall be thirty dollars per year for (({-
motor -})) {+ all +} vehicles(({- , regardless of year, value, make, or
model, beginning January 1, 2000 -})).
(2) For the purposes of this section, "license tab fees" are
defined as the general fees paid annually for licensing motor
vehicles(({- , including cars, sport utility vehicles, motorcycles, and
motor homes -})) {+ and trailers as defined in RCW 46.04.620 and
46.04.623.

The rationale behind this reinstatement of the $30 basic fee (plus local
fees) is that trailers should be expected to pay for maintenance of the
roads since their use also causes wear and tear on our highways.

You made a good point about a trailer being used only one or two times a
week. That is probably true in many cases, but there could be instances
when a trailer is used on a daily basis. Monitoring usage in the name of
fairness would be costly and not a good use of taxpayer money."

Please take the time to send a note to your reps, letting them know how you feel about these fees.

Thats good information but where does my camper fit into this at ? I know they charge me plenty to license it. It does add weight to the truck so more wear and tear. But I also pay for tonage on my truck. I dont mind paying taxes but I want them to spent with out waste. Get tired of hearing about no money when they get more than enough allready. I have an idea instead of making every school different and looking like some super nice place to be why dont they get one enginnering design and make them all the same. Instead of paying to have everyone designed individually.

hi cd, i know this is not your reasoning, but if trailers cause wear and tear which i agree they do why are we still paying full price as a car when half the time were not allowed to drive in the far 2 lanes ? just something to ponder

ok, so how many of you have actually taken the time to call. And if you use the 800 # be sure to tell them you want copies to go to the governor. When I left my message it started that " you are fired." The people voted no new taxes without a vote of the people..This is a new tax and since you don't know how to follow our will, I will vote for someone who will.

We need to ban together and let them know that we will not take it as sportspeople. Seldom use 2 of the trailers and the other two are not used more than a couple of times a week.

After you call, let us know. Just don't post here without calling otherwise nothing will get done. Have you spouse and friends call.

Let us take our government back and show them we will not be silent when they do things that the people have told them not to do.

Fire the incumbents and elect all new representatives. This will get their attention.

Tell them that that is what you are going to do....

Giz...

Here is who voted for and against.
SSB 6814
Description: FINAL PASSAGE AS AMENDED BY THE HOUSE
Item No.: 13
Transcript No.: 59 Date: 03-13-2002
Yeas: 56 Nays: 41 Absent: 00 Excused: 01
Voting yea: Representatives Anderson, Ballasiotes, Berkey, Chase, Cody, Conway, Cooper, Darneille, Dickerson, Doumit, Dunshee, Edwards, Eickmeyer, Fisher, Fromhold, Gombosky, Grant, Haigh, Hankins, Hatfield, Hunt, Hurst, Jackley, Jarrett, Kagi, Kenney, Kessler, Kirby, Lantz, Linville, Lovick, Lysen, McDermott, McIntire, Miloscia, Mitchell, Morris, Murray, O'Brien, Ogden, Quall, Reardon, Rockefeller, Romero, Ruderman, Santos, Schual-Berke, Simpson, Sommers, Sullivan, Tokuda, Upthegrove, Veloria, Wood, Woods, and Speaker Chopp
Voting nay: Representatives Ahern, Alexander, Armstrong, Speaker Ballard, Barlean, Benson, Boldt, Buck, Bush, Cairnes, Campbell, Carrell, Casada, Chandler, Clements, Cox, Crouse, DeBolt, Delvin, Dunn, Ericksen, Esser, Holmquist, Lisk, Mastin, McMorris, Mielke, Morell, Mulliken, Nixon, Orcutt, Pearson, Pflug, Roach, Schindler, Schmidt, Schoesler, Sehlin, Sump, Talcott, Van Luven
Excused: Representative Skinner

Six republicans voted for it in the house.

Here is Senate
Bill No.: SSB 6814
Description: FINAL PASSAGE AS AMENDED BY THE HOUSE
Item No.: 55
Transcript No.: 59 Date: 03-13-2002
Yeas: 41 Nays: 05 Absent: 02 Excused: 01
Voting yea: Senators Brown, Carlson, Costa, Deccio, Eide, Fairley, Finkbeiner, Franklin, Fraser, Gardner, Hale, Hargrove, Haugen, Hewitt, Hochstatter, Horn, Jacobsen, Johnson, Kastama, Keiser, Kline, Kohl-Welles, McAuliffe, McDonald, Oke, Parlette, Prentice, Rasmussen, Regala, Rossi, Sheahan, Sheldon, B., Sheldon, T., Shin, Snyder, Spanel, Stevens, Swecker, Thibaudeau, West, Winsley
Voting nay: Senators Honeyford, Long, Morton, Roach, Zarelli
Absent: Senators Benton, Poulsen
Excused: Senator McCaslin
Sixteen republicans voted for it in the senate.

Kinda seems like time for a new senate and fewer democrats to me.

"Bottom line is that out of the 50 states, WA is in the top 10 (#7?) for the amount of $$ per capita that it extracts from it's citizens."

Yup,think I'll move to South Dakota. Maybe I can get a job at Microsoft down ther.

http://www.census.gov/govs/statetax/01staxrank.html

Big Jim & Keta,

You guys are alright! You burn the nidnite oil to bring us the hard facts.

Keta. I am going off memory here, so please bear with me. My original statement was about total $$ extracted by the state per capita. I believe the list I was referring to included fees (the subject of this thread) and whatever else the state has concocted the raise revenues (lottery?).

Anyway I think it was gross revenue from within the state divided by citizens - and we were in the top 10.

And it seems to me that we don't have much to show for it - relatively speaking.

I really try not to get pulled into these political threads on fishing boards anymore, but sometimes I can't resist. My point is that just dividing the population by the tax paid is an over simplification. If you have a higher percentage of rich people and a good economy you are bound to pay more taxes per capita than a poor state with a lousy economy. Do I think it's right to pay more tax for a boat trailer than a 80g Mercedes? Hell no. I think our tax collection system in this state sucks. What I get tired of hearing is people wanting more roads, more jails,state to pay for moms and dads nursing home for 20years, help abused children, fix the boat launch, build and maintain hatcheries, maintain parks, have the best schools and teachers,pay medical bills, subsidies the port of Seattle,build new stadiums and on and on,then turn around and say" I earned my damned money I should be able to spend it on what I want." Sounds quite hypocritical to me. Everyone wants all the benefits without paying for them.

Hey Keta:

If WA State would simply account for the money they spend and would show that they need the additional revenue I don't think I would have a problem paying a little more. Heck an extra 20 nor 30 bucks a year doesn't mean that much. But the truth of the mater is that the state doesn't have any idea how much money they are taking in, spending, or where it is going in many of the departments that they run. That leads me to believe that there are areas where they are wasting massive aomounts of money. The State ferry system is a perfect example. They don't know how much money they take in at the toll booths, or where it goes.

I would guess that if all state run departments had to account for all of the money they take in along with what they spend, then cut the fat, there would be enough money to take care of all the items you mentioned, and then some.

I might also add that the democrats in the state legislature have blocked the attempts of the republicans to create a department that would audit the other departments and find out where the money is going. Guess they are afraid of what will be found. Just another of many reason to be P.O.ed at those dorks

" But the truth of the mater is that the state doesn't have any idea how much money they are taking in, spending, or where it is going in many of the departments that they run."

What makes this the truth.Do you have documentation?

"That leads me to believe that there are areas where they are wasting massive aomounts of money."

You can believe whatever you want, that doesn't make it a fact.

"The State ferry system is a perfect example. They don't know how much money they take in at the toll booths, or where it goes."

Have you ever taken a ferry? Every time I do I get a receipt. If everyone gets a receipt,how cold they not know how much they take in?

" I might also add that the democrats in the state legislature have blocked the attempts of the republicans to create a department that would audit the other departments and find out where the money is going."

I thought Republicans were against creating more bureaucracy,not for it. I have no doubt there is waste in the government. There is waste in all large organizations. I don't think either party has a monopoly on waste and unaccountability. I think the amount of waste is exaggerated by some who have an ideological agenda and cutting off funding for government,as 695 was all about, until every dollar is accounted for and all waste cut is not in our best interest. O.K., this relapse from not getting into political treads on fishing BB's is over. I'm back on the wagon.

Keta

I'm not lettin you off that easily.

I was listening to the radio while they were discussing a report that stated the the Washington State Ferry System hadn't accounted for the money takin in at the toll their booth's for the past 14 years. This isn't something I just made up. I will find the report/newspaper article so you can take a look.

In the mean time lets discuss Sound Transit (how many millions have they spent and not even moved a shovel full of dirt ), or DSHS (overstafed by how many people???), or...

The bottom line is our state officials (most of them are democrats) are inneffective, waste too much money, and go to the well far too often.

You are right we do want the best roads, schools, mass transit system, help for the elderly... The point I have tried to make through out this thread is.... THEY KEEP TAKING MORE AND MORE OF OUR MONEY AND NOT GIVING US ANYTHING MORE FOR IT!!!! If you are happy giving them more of your hard earned cash, while having to live in a state that has the second worst traffic in the country (maybe if we are lucky we can be #1 soon), in a state where teachers are being lured away to other states because our teacher compensation packages can't compete (after Govenor Locke promised to improve our education system and teacher pay). Then fine... I am not!!! If they are gonna tax us like we have/are building the best education system, best transit sytems... Then they darn well better provide us with them.