Gamies on the Quill are writing tickets for snagging to people keeping fish hooked outside the mouth but gill plates forward!
Bout time they clarified that irregardless of the lame legal response you may get from Evan Jacoby!

Good for them get thoose snagels, plain clothed, just like Hawaii Five-0.

WoO Hoo thats absolutely great!!!!

now we just need about 1000 more gamies out there writting guys up for every single offence and judges that understand whats going on.

i was fishing on the oly pen this morning and on the way back decided to stop and check out the quilcene river...i cant believe that people fish this river. the water is so skinny and shallow at both bridges with tons of fish stacked up. there is no sporting way to fish in this river. i watched as some redneck carefully floated a hook into a pod of fish stacked in 2 or 3 feet of water and gave it a tug. after landing it i asked him if this was the local technique and he gave me a funny look and said it was legal in the mouth, and he did get that one in the mouth...now i understand why all the tickets are being written there.

Hey Stifler if you want to start your own thread on flossing please do so as that is a seperate subject. If you want to discuss the sporting worthiness of the Quilcene then how about taking my first suggestion?

fuzzy math??

No just an apparent lack of comprehensive reading skills and taking things out of context....please reread your post and then reread my response....thankyou. If you would like to discuss the 2 subjects that you interjected into this thread why don't you create threads for those discussions?

so i agree with your original post and you come back with jabs on my reading skills??
whatever...there's not much point in starting a new thread, it's done with this one.

My apologies Stifler I did not see that you came on this board last November....if you had been here in August and September of last year you would likely have known that the Quilcene is my location every year during the coho run. Your description of that river hit a touchy nerve. I fish it intensely for about 5 weeks and do find considerable sport in playing a legally hooked in the mouth fresh from the saltwater silver in that dinky water....you lose more than 3/4 of the ones so hooked....you don't see that happen on larger bodies of water. So my apologies sir and thanks for agreeing with the central theme of my post.

I am also quite horrified to find myself in agreement with RA3 ! Sheesh nothing intended by that....just gonna take some getting use too :p !

Gill plate forward on the Killsene what's the point? That system needs some serious attention. There are too many Gamies on that river and to few on others. So they get to write lots of tickets but, that river should be closed for Salmon with a small window for legal snagging. I say this because I have witness the assault on these fish and their habitat. Lets take a look at what I am trying to describe. We are talking about a very small shallow stream about 10 to 12 yards or less wide with people fishing both sides and on top of fish. No places to hide.

I think that a small legal snag window would allow a lot of crackers and fishing challenged people to get a salmon on a hook. Once the snag fishery is over, the river would be closed and the fish and habitat can recover and the fish that are sitting on reeds want be disturbed (Chum). :p The way it is now managed both people and fish are losing.(Fines, damaged habitat and stressed fish) I am aware that there needs to be a harvest but lets get it done and shut it down fast so that it doesn't drain us of resources needed to protect other systems. I saw way to many officers on that stream at one time and there are none on other streams that need protecting. North of us(Canada, Alaska) they allow some snagging for salmon if feasible. Go in get your meat and leave it alone.

These fish are constantly cornered the minute they start up that trickle of a stream. You can hook a fish in that river with any ol hook with string and stick as long as you keep your hook in the water and let gravity set it for you. If you want my 2 cents that is not fishing.

Just say no to Quillibilly fishing all together! I am very disapointed with this mess of a fishery. It is starting to stink like a sore that needs healing.

Send our Gamies back. We need them in a lot of other places. Its a lot easier to police a closed river with a snag legal season than it is now on the Killsene. Lots of Kings being hooked in the arse in other areas constantly with no help. Kings are endangered on most streams in our state.

The minute you arrive at the killsene be prepared to be ammused. And if you don't need the meat leave your fishing tackle at home because you probably wouldn't want to use it.

If you must go, do rent the movie "They shot Horses don't they" so that you can get into the spirit of this fishery.

So now you see why I don't think a Gill plate debate is indicated when it comes to this so called fishery, but a closer look at how to manage it better.

Actually if you were able to think about it my original post was intended towards a larger target......the "in the gill plate" logic in general on any and all rivers. But as you have chosen to attack so specifically I gotta ask...are you putting me in the same category as what you just described? Just want to know before eaten someones throat out again? I made a admitted mistake and apologized to Stifler but am finding it difficult to stomach your possible implications dude?

Gooose, Gooose, Gooose,

My throat-eating friend, here's a little thought to mull over while your back heals.

FACT: The Quilcene silver fishery is one of (probably tops the list) the most illegally conducted fisheries in the state!

You are probably the only "Righteous" fisherman that openly defends, and talks it up on any of these BB's. Face it, THAT FISHERY IS PLAIN DISGUSTING! When people come here and express their disgust, it isn't a personal attack on you so much as one on the fishery itself. You're a smart guy, and I'm sure an excellent fisherman, but you talk about the Quil like it's the hilight of your fishing year? If that's truly the case, all I can say is you've got to get out more! :p

To those of us here on the boards that have experienced "fisheries" like this first-hand, it just makes us wonder what the appeal could possibly be? To me personally, the bad just plain outweighs any potential good.

If you enjoy the Quil fishery that much, that you're willing to be associated with all of the sh!t going on there, hey that's completely up to you, but take a minute to understand where opinions like Stifler's and John Lee's are coming from. Most "Righteous" fishermen (at least the ones I know) wouldn't be caught dead at places like the Quil or the Skok. (yeah, yeah, I know I'm a utopian purist, elitist. Just ask LittleZoZo )

"Gill plates Forward" to me has ALWAYS just been a lame justification to keep a snagged fish. If anyone needs to keep a fish that badly (probably a dark one at that) that they resort to questionable tactics, IMHO, a re-examination of why you SPORT fish in the first place is DEFINITELY in order.

From what I saw when we visited the Quill, not ONE fish WE saw being taken were legally caught. We did talk to the under cover Gammie( 4 of them acting as fishermen one was a fly fisherman) and they said they had given out a few $500 tickets . I asked them about taking there gear and they said they have in the past got cars, boats and other gear but it is more of a hassel them it is worth, the $500 seem to work better. He showed me why taking there gear was not worth it. (cheap rod some one had ditched when they took off).

As far as the Gill plate issues goes, I was not sure exactly what you were trying to say,

Rrevised code in the F&G says anything fwd of gill plate is leagal, but I think it is up to the officer, if he sees that you are trying to line / snagg and it sticks int he gill plate or out side of the mouth then they were attempting to snag.

Sorry Divers but that just doesn't exist as a Revised Code.....if it does please cite it specifically...I'd love to see you do that...the only thing any one has is a bs answer from Evan Jacoby that states that generally you won't be nailed...I'll go with the officers who are writen tickets.

Been looking for that, that is what I was told when I called the Law dept. of the F&G in Olympia. Maybe you can get more out of them then I did.

Divers you and everyone can get a quote from Evan Jacby that in "general they will not write you a ticket for hooking them in the gill plates forward and bonking." Please all read that reply carefully...it does not say that the letter of the law won't be applied. Please read the reg's for me and recite after me ...."in the mouth." That's just what the gamies are doing this year on the Quil and other rivers.... cry me a mile my friends but that's reality and the law . You want to rely on someones half ass legal response when it comes to a $500 ticket be my guest ! Sheesh can any one read and comprehend?

we go through this pretty often but here it is again, it is clear by the regulations printed in the WDFW pamphlet that any fish hooked anywhere but inside the mouth is illegal to keep. Also the hook MUST have gotten there by the fished own deliberate actions! Anything else is illegal. Any gamewarden not citing people for fish hooked elsewhere is failing at his job. During the fall salmon season there should be (in my opinion) a zero tolerance policy even for fish caught and released! As snagging is the attempt at catching a fish where the fish does not volentarily take the lure/bait or fly. No where does it say anything about harvesting so keeping a snagged fish is not what should evoke a citation it is the act of snagging that should.
After 20+ years of salmon/steelhead fishing and only having foul hooked one fish i feel confident in saying that if a person commonly or even occasionally foul hooks a fish then there is something wrong with that persons method! It should almost never happen!
Also there is no such thing as too many gamies on any river. I would not cinsider getting checked twice a day every day excessive if it kept snagginf idiots away from the rivers.
I also think that instead of a non-bouyant lure restriction for salmon there shoule be a bouyant lure ban except for plugs.

Spinner fishermen don't snag, plug fishers don't snag, bait fishermen don't snag. The people who are snagging are using corkies and /or yarn. Sure maybe there are legit corkie fishermen for salmon but I have never seen one.

20+ years and only snagged 1 fish

Guiness book of world records here comes Robert allen..

I think you might have opened a can of worms here Robert allen!

First off ban ALL bouyant lures...hmmmm you think it wouldnt be as easy for a snagger to snag with a spinner or spoon

second legit corkie fisherman for salmon..c'mon! I have 3 local rivers that produce salmon with corkie and yarn and they are hooked IN THE MOUTH!

You said spinner fishermen, plug fishermen and bait fishermen dont snag fish...The key word there was FISHERMEN..
Snaggers are NOT fishermen...

but you hand a snagger a spinner and I garantee he will be able to snag more fish then by corkyie and yarn..

Judge, much?

If you've read many of gooose's posts, you'd know he lives right near the Quil. If I lived right near a river that gets black with fish -- any type of fish -- I'd fish there and enjoy it, too. I think most would. Fishing there in spite of some of the practices that may go on is not a moral failing.

Robert -
When are you available to instruct myself and others on "proper" fishing methods? A rhetoric question as I'm sure that your comment doesn't come across as you intented.
Over a lifetime of fishing (both gear and flies) and more than a few fish caught I would say that occassionaly foul hooking a fish is inevidentable.

I remember a summer steelhead that missed my waking fly, completely clearing of the water and landed on my fly which ended up hooked in the pectoral fin - even though I never even set the hook I ended up with a foul hooked fish on a surface fly. Coho in the river are notorious for ending up fouled hooked. Many times I have watched fair hooked fish roll up the leader, the hook fall out (barbless) and as the leader unwinds the hook ends up in a fin or elsewhere - another foul hooked fish. Chums are another problem - In the fall and early winter I have gone to trying to fish several feet off the bottom with my wet flies and still foul hook chums way more often than I would like. Given the forecast for chum returns in the Puget Sound area I would say that it would be likely that in a week of fishing in late November or early December with swung flies, drift gear and bait, plain yarn, spoons or other terminal gear it would be highly probable that any angler will have one or more chums fouled hook when brought to hand.

Eliminating corkies and other floating terminal would help reduced the flossing problem though there are many that are quite adept at this method using bait or yarn. Lots of intentional snagging occurrs with lures, jigs, and even flies. On the North Fork Stillaguamish (fly only water) there is a annual problem of folks (I refuse to call then anglers) snagging salmon using weight flies.

While we can and should continue to regulate fisheries to help to control this distasteful problem the underlying problem continues to be the erosion of our collective angler ethics. It is becoming more and more common for "fair chase" ethics to go out the window in favor of ego boosting success. The ultimate solution is ourselves not some magic "rule".

Tight lines
Smalma

Thanks 4Salt

Good to see that there are others as disgusted as I am with this fishery. :p Give us back our Gamies and consider what I have recomended. Can't see why anyone would defend the status quo for this fishery. There needs to be changes in the way this river is managed, not more Gamies and enforcement on this River.

I have been to six different rivers in the last two weeks,not the quill!!! I have managed to usually get legal limits daily but yes in some places it has been Impossible not to snag a fish occasionally unintentionally! I don't keep snagged fish usually don't even land them mostly just break them off right away. Anyway I have seen hundreds of snagged fish packed out of the places I've been to and yet to see one gammie around !!! Whats up with that?

FW

That's my point. :p There are to many Gammies on the Quill and not enough else where. Make the rules appropriate for each stream. That way one system can't overload our enforcement resources. This system requires to much attention as it is now managed. I am sure a lot of the fish you are seeing trucked out unlawfully are endangered Kings.

This whole thread has got out of hand....I agree with to many gammies on one river thats a fact..It seems they do gang up on one river instead of spreading out but thats so they are all close for lunch J/K ..But seriously we need to get them spread out..I know of several rivers I have fished for years and once or never have seen gammie's..There are places like hoods hatchery that they have put up camera's to catch people snagging and monitor them daily...But whats funny about that is the indians come in and net 3500 fish in one day and sportsman on there best day dont take more then 100 fish...while the hatchery keeps there gates closed on netting days and open on all other .. Then give 1000's of fish away to the food bank...Don't get me wrong food giving fish to the food bank is ok but when the hatchery has its quota why not close the gates and let sportsman catch fish...Isnt that what hatcheries are for?

off the subject sorry!

Our state needs more gammies for sure! I have witnessed tons of illegal snagging and retention of fish this year and it needs to stop...

I think where people go wrong here is if you feel a take and set the hook a little late and hook a fish in the head .(which happens alot) That shouldnt be considered snagging..Personally I keep only fish that are hooked in the mouth but my point is If someone feels a hit (not a line rub they are distinctive in feel) sets the hook and hooks a fish on top of the nose or under the jaw I feel they could keep if they want....The problem with this being. People go out perposely to try there luck and snag one in the head!!.

With that said I believe its an ethics call for the idividual to keep or release. A ticket could not be determined by a gammie if he wasnt watching...

Best thing is to state in the laws IN THE MOUTH only shall a fish be legall to retain..

The game laws some times are hard to decide whats legall and whats not unless you have your lawyer there to interpret it for you ! TM

here is how to go 20 years with only one foul hooked fish.

1. do not fish in areas where fish stack up by the hundreds so close together that you cant get a lure fly or bait through them without hitting them!!

2. don't fish for visible fish so long thet you eventually snag them!

3. don't fish pools where the fish are all stirred up by snaggers.

I fished for coho 2 days last fall on an extremely popular river on a weekend and never saw another soul. The first day I caught 9 all on spinners all inside the mouth. The second say I hooked 5. I started at 11:00 am and was done by 3:00

frankly that was enough salmon fishing for me ina season. people fish for different reasons
i don't go fishing to put as many fish on the bank as I can. I go out to have a good time and to see if i still have the knowledge and skills it takes to be effective. I enjoy the level of skill I have and I don't need to impress other anglers and I don't want to impress them or the people on this board.

almost all of the snagging in the state of washington is done by guys using corkies . That is a fact. In the fall months there are more people snagging with corkies than there are fishing legally.

When I was about 10 I tried snagging a steelhead with a steelie rigges with a siawash. It was near impossible. When I jerked the soppn would ride up over the top of the fish not hook it the action of the spoon insured that. That is why spoons with singles rarely snag on rocks.
My point is the vast majority of fishermen in the fall using only a corkie and maybe some yarn are guys who are attempting to snag. If taking floating drift bobbers away from them is what it takes to make life hard on them I am ALL for that. if you don't like that idea then make sure that every time you see a guy snagging that way turn them in, with a description,license number, and be willing to set aside a day to go to court and testify.
I think the best thing we could do would be to close terminal salmon fisheries.
cedar creek on the North Lewis. These guys want to go where there are lots of fish and lots of other snaggers. They will not be displaced to other rivers they will simply quit fishing.

Ban all corkies now
Please It is all on how one uses it.

like TM said, seen guys snagg with spinners and and anything else they can get there hands on.

Ok, lets close the terminal fisheries so they can crowd evry little body of water. Now it will be even more of a mess.

Like I said before snagger don't fish and they dont like to work hard for the fish so keep them all around the terminal areas and use cameras to monitor them. If its to difficult to detect fish or see them, the snaggers will be moving on. Now we can have more gammies for other areas.

Maybe we can start a reward sysytem to report and nab these guys. The rewards could be new rods and reels or other gear donated by clubs and shops. This might give some good incentives to those who are afarid to speak out.
Hell this kinda sysytem works for other areas of law enforcement.

Sorry JLH but I'm definitely not defending the status quo on that river........give me more gamies! On all the rivers! Don't see a problem with that? Oh and I can't understand how fining a snagger $500 is causing harm to anyone but the snagger....how's that relate to harming fish or habitat? I'd like to see that fine doubled....cause some real harm to the poachers.

Sorry 4Salt but I believe it is only the strong presence of righteous fishers on every single river if we are to find a solution. Over heard a conversation among the locals yesterday on the river....they are real pissed about a bunch of "too serious" fishermen showing up and bringing all this enforcement upon them to ruin their fun. Makes my day to hear that!

Sorry RA3. I often see some validity behind your somewhat hardlined opinions, but not on this one. Are we to trade our corkies in for buzz bombs? If I were going to intentionally snag salmon my weapon of choice would be my fly rod. I've unintentionally snagged several salmon with it. Each time I broke them off upon realizing what happened.
Make harder snagging rules and the snaggers will just adapt.

Gooose, it would be nice if the budget could afford an unlimited number of gammies base on the total need but, thats not the case. If anything, budgets are getting smaller in this state. So in this case we have to use what we have as wise as we can. I don't think the goal of enforcement should be to write the most tickets for the highest amount of money on one stream and leave other streams abandoned. It should be physically available to serve the entire system doing the fish runs.

The snagger or proacher on the Quill could get their fish if they had a snag legal fishery and wouldn't have to pay money they probably don't have. I believe a lot of these people are just trying to survive. :p If there is such a surplus why not let them have at it for a limited number of days and then close that feasco down until the fish have done there thing. Government is about serving all the people.

If is one area people seem to want to do it there way, then let them do it if it can be done without causing harm. The majority of people on that river are more concerned about having an old boot to take home than how to be the perfect sportsman. This river should basically be closed with special rules. This would spread out some of the numerous officials they have now on the Quill.

I don't care how much money in fines they are collecting if the other systems have to go unattented. It doesn't make me feel good to see so many people breaking the law when the law can be change to allow a different fishery with better results thats healthier for the environment. Laws should not be made and enforced just to see how many tickets that can get written in a season,but to protect the resources and serve the people.

Have it open for snagging to allow the regular Quillibilies to get their fish and then close it . And if anyone fishes it while it is closed, no questions asked( Gill plate forward etc.) that person can be punished accordingly. A single officer (not even needing a gammie) can enforce that rule. :p That will allow the rest of us to be able to call about a problem in our areas and have someone available to respond. It doesn't take a brain surgeon to get this solved.

Actually JLH if you took a closer look you'd see that the larger bulk of the snaggers are from out of the area. The Quillabilies aren't the ones getting the bulk of the tickets...not even close. The extra patrol emphasis is due primarily to the concerns and requests of the river property owners and local fishers who are concerned about the river.....the change from last year has been noticeable....and now that the run is pretty much done I hope you see this kinda emphasis patrol on your local favorite haunts as those zoo's are just beginning to rock-n-roll. Don't disagree with you about the continued lack of funding being a reality....but I'll guarantee you that every one of those urban cowboys who got wrote up for $500 will be awful careful now in your backyard !

Lastly I might like to remind you that the Quil also has a listed run in it.....a few of them urban cowboys just didn't know the difference and paid the price....seems the Quillabillies believe in a better quality smoker .

It's called education thru use of a big stick.

Thank God , now they can get down here and start the same kind of underecoverwork.

I don't take it as fact that they are writing tickets for that just because some dude on the internet says so, sorry. If they really are being that strict that's a very good thing but I don't buy it for one single solitary minute. You see I get out a lot and fish many rivers, I see a lot. I know many many fishers too. I've never heard of this kind of strictness before. Sounds more like a local trying to scare guys away from his local river or just seeing something that didn't really happen that way, an honest mistake.

Forget that river and the ways of that river. Take my advice and you'll thank me later.

Kilo, I think there are more then just One guy who has witnessed this on the Quil.
I am sure they can go into detail.
Here is what we witnessed.

We we were there, we saw one get cuffed and taken away, (9/14/2002 around 3:00 pm) and 2 tickets being written.
I don't think you are the only one who gets out, or know people, some of the guys on this board hit 2-4 different rivers a week, fishing and scouting.

AS far as scare tactics go I doubt it.

I'm glad, I hope they raise the fine to $1000.00 and loss of Lic. for 5 years.

Kilo please check with Jefferson County Superior Court and ask them how many Quilcene violations they have processed so far and how many are on the docket ? Thanks Divers....sheesh and I'm trying to attract righteous fishers....certainly wouldn't want to scare someone away ! BTW Kilo I get around too....Chehalis is next followed by the Elwha and Dungy ....then of course there is the Satsop and Cowlitz.....maybe see you around dude . Oh and after that it's winter steelie season but sorry I'm a known zipper when it comes to those fishen spots. Hmmmm...9 posts since Feb 2002?
Yeah it's winding down....but still managed 2 nice ones right before dark....snaggers were baffled as to why me and not them as they put zero on the bank. :p

Thats my point. There has been very little patrolling in other areas while the Quill drains us of the man power. Those zoo's,.. meaning more than one fishery has had very little attention because of this drain. King's in other systems are coming out of the water tails first on a lot of streams because they don't get minimal patrol. We are witnessing snagging out of control while there is a debate about Gill plate forward on the Killsene. I say close it and re-think that fishery. Someone $1000 dollar fine don't mean a hill of bean if the majority of the system is overlooked. We need even handed management.

You infer that the people being cited on the Quill are the ones that are snagging daily in our areas and that's just not the case. WE have snagging daily without restraint because these snaggers are here and not on the Quill. If that river had a snag leagal window followed by closure,.. we could have a more even handed approach to managing the many systems that are dependant on enforcement having a consistent presence. No body watching the hen house until they finish purnishing the snaggers on the Quill. You don't even hear rumors of snaggers getting busted anywhere but at the Quill. Will that deter the snagging, that has continued outright while all eyes are on the Quill? Not!

The snagger have been rocking and rolling on our endangered king's while the Quill silvers take top priority. I say lets get it right.

Guys getting tickets for snagging..........yawn. Now guys getting tickets for keeping fish hooked in the chin("Gill Plates Forward...") with no other tell tale signs or statements that indicate the intention of snagging(other than fishing there) that would be interesting to see. Mind you that would be fine with me but about as likely as seeing tickets for going 61mph in a 60mph section of I-5 as the 70mph+ drivers zip by.

I'm just sticking to the original post's theme, not snagging in general. I didn't think I had to state that.

And your point JLH please? Kilo and your point please? My point: It's called the Sheriff is cleaning up the town! Comprende? When you check dude you'll find that the score is just around 250 tickets....glad to see it and wish the officers just as much luck hunting snagging poaching urban cowboys on the next rivers :p ! Of course if you got issues with having the man watch you closely Kilo....then I see your concern about driving a mile over the speed limit ?

I wasn't going to get involved, but RA 3 brought up a couple of points I wanted to address. First of all, you need to change your moniker to "Salmon Nazi" or something like that. Secondly, If you really want to line fish like a pro, leave the corkies at home. I keep hearing you piss and moan about corkies and how everyone who uses them is a snagger. Nothing could be further from the truth. I can line fish better than just about anyone I know and I never use corkies. I run a ten-fifteen foot leader, down to a 3/0 hook with either a little bit of yarn, or a small glass bead, depending on my mood. Anyhow, not trying to flame, but I just had to let RA3 know how misinformed he was.

If RA gets his wish, I will be more then willing to be the black market for Corkies. Any color or size email me. Wow I think I hit the jackpot now.

Sheesh right on Divers and LZZ! I don't use a corkie where I fish in the Quil because it causes the setup to pass over the fish....not sure I lined them 2 fish tonite as they both were stuck in the tongue...but I will accept educated opinions?

Gooose, Both fish were hooked right in the tounge? Then that's all that matters!

ZoZo If you'd notice I did not say that everyone using corkies was snagging! i said that there are more people snagging with corky drift set ups that fish legit with them. Understand also i am talking only about salmon in the fall.
I wish you guys would quit assuming i am saying or meaning more than i am saying.
I say exactly what i mean and leave nothing out. there is NO reading between the lines no interpreting what i am saying. I say EXACTLY what i mean.
If you can get salmon to take a corky i think thats great however there are a thousand guys for every one of you that are snagging with them. Ok maybe a hundred but certainly no less than that. Maybe things are a little different here than in the rest of the state but here in southwest washington there are vastly more snaggers than fair fishermen. if you wanna see what I am taking about go drive up the Washougal the next rain we get or go down to the meat hole on the North lewis ( particularly from the "rock" or below the hatchery intake)
1. they are all snagging
2. they are people who wouldn't put the effort into finding fish someplace else so they would not be displaced to other areas. well maybe to another terminal fishery like blue creek or the barrier dam.

I think site or season gear restrictions could limit these guys's procductivity and make them not want to fish any more and thats a damn good thing!!!

a couple weeks ago there was mention of how a couple people in boats floating through got hit by flying lead from these creeps. In my opinion that says it all about the charecter of these fellows and is cause enough for the closure of the access there. These people and the legit anglers around them absolutely refuse to police themselves so I say good ridence to bad rubbish WDFW has no obligation to these people to allow them to harvest or even fish for these fish if they do not obey the rules.

certainly there are guys that catch fish fair on corkies vastly more catch them with corkies and eggs. but here in SW Washington corkies for salmon are used as the primary snagging set up and i think WDFW would be in the right banning them and all drift bobbers from September1-November 15.

sure you can disagree all you want but all I want to do is get rid of snaggers. If you disagree with that well then go ahead and call me a nazi and tell me how all i wanna do is tell people how to fish but understand I have never said or implied that and your just offended because your own actions are wrong according to the law and sportsman like conduct. snagging (flossing-lining) is the game of sore losers

Here, Here!

Gooose,

My point addresses your original point. Since you changed your original point away from "Gill Plate Forward Won't Work" there is nothing more I feel the need to say, but you brought up some other stuff I'll type about a bit.

As far as the fish hooked in the tongue goes I'd say it was legal so long as you didn't admit to trying to floss in front of a warden or anyone else that might judge you including yourself.

You CAN CAN CAN floss without having the hook end up on the outside of the fish's mouth, I've been a very bad boy. Take it from a person that use to floss a lot in clear water conditions etc etc. I could even tell you the best corky setup(or an odd looking fly I call the Dentist ) to make it happen more often. We won't even talk about the dynamics of fish trying to spit leader on a slow drift. You could even run this setup through a bonked fish on the bank to see how it flops around just inside the mouth almost every time. But... that knowledge would be used for evil and I'm working on staying on the side of good in all aspects of my life. Sure some things are hard to give up, but my fishing is much much cleaner now and I'm feeling very good about it. In my flossing hay day an undercover warden wouldn't suspect a thing, in fact he'd change the color of his corky to mine like everyone else and wish he had some anise oil or whatever I was using that day, like it mattered. I hope that answers your mean spirited yet amusing question at least, not that it deserved an answer.

I would say that all this stemmed from a chat awhile ago. I had said that I remember in regs that there used to be a "gill plate forward" rule in the regs. SInce I don't hord my reg books, I'm going off memory. I asked quite a few people, and even emailed the state just to ask if there was a rule at one time. I had recieved the response from Evans I do believe. Have I ever kept a fish not hooked in the mouth? Nope. I've released all that's hooked outside of it. But I base my info off old regs I've read, and from my parents/grandparents who've fished here since turn of century. Now this blows up to a "I've talked to gamies" BS. Well, guess what? I've talked to gamie's as well and i've heard opposite. Plus, there's the legalities of setting presidence. If this has been a "general rule" and been overlooked in the past, then these gamies have set themselves up for some lawsuits for harassment and "profiling" if any of these guys decide to hire a lawyer. I could care less what the rules say in regards to lures. All the fish I KEEP are caught legally, hook in mouth. If they want to drop the rules to just in mouth I'd be more then happy with it. I just get damned tired of the "little boy" menality I've read and seen lately. I really don't feel like going to the law library and pulling out the RCW's to find the law. I am almost 100% sure it's in the RCW's, not in the F & G area. This was set back in the days when you had law enforcement making busts. I'm not 100% sure, since my grandad started fishing back in about 1910 around here, and never really had long discussions on who wrote tickets and EXACTLY what the regs were. Just that it was a rule that gill plate forward was in the books when I started fishing steelhead in the 70's. And even recently about 1995 I was asked by an officer why I released a nice steelhead brat that I had hooked outside the mouth on the Hoh. I said "It wasn't in mouth" and he had said "Gill plate forward was legal". Also had a real you know what Gamie on the Puy years ago say same thing as well. So go figure. I'm just relayed what I'd learned/saw over the years.

So, now the rivers are full of fish, let's let this stupid ass thread die and go fishing.

Not going to get involved in this debate. I just wanted to post about the question of whether or not the tongue is legal. On page 15 of this years regs, under selective gear rules it states that if a fish is legal to keep it should be kept if hook is swallowed(duh), or is hooked in the gill, eye, or tongue. Now, I don't know if that means that you can only keep a fish that is hooked in the gill, eye, or tongue on rivers where the selective gear rules are in effect, and everywhere else it is mouth only. Or if gill,eye, tongue is a general rule everywhere? Anybody know? The way I read it sounds like it is saying gill, eye, tongue is only legal where selective gear rules are in effect......everywhere else is mouth only. Not sure though.....I am strictly mouth only personally, although I've never hooked one in the tongue....weird :p I would think that the tongue would be considered a part of the mouth???

RiverGal

RG,

Yes, the tongue is part of the mouth.

Here's my interpretation:

I believe the "hooked in the gill, eye, or tongue..." line in the regs refers to the fact that a fish hooked in those areas is usually mortally wounded, and will probably die. The "where legal to do so" means that if the area is open to retention, and the fish is hooked in these areas you should keep it. If you're fishing in an area, or a time of year that does not allow any retention, then the fish must be released no matter if it might die or not. For clarification, "gills" means hooked FROM THE INSIDE, not hooked from the outside in the gillplate.

I'm pretty sure that this applies to all areas, not just ones with special regs, unless specifically stated.

Very well stated 4Salt and I am in total agreement with it! .... Whoa kinda of scary !

Hey gooose,

You think we should buy some lottery tickets?

RG,

4S is right, but here's a little more information about that rule...

It's not really intended to apply to salmon and steelhead...it's intended to apply to trout fishing. The reason that it is in the "selective gear" rules is that when BAIT fishing for trout, each fish you catch, regardless of whether you retain it or not, counts against your limit.

If you're fishing with artificial lures, it is legal to catch and release trout without them counting against your limit. The rule is there to encourage people fishing with lures to keep a trout that has been hooked in the eye, gill, or base of the tongue.

Tongue, gill (from the inside) and eye (from the inside) are certainly hooked in the mouth.

Fish on...

Todd.

4Salt....yes I know that the tongue is a part of the mouth, I was just wondering why in the regs they list it as a difference in where you hook it. Also, is there a place in the regs that actually defines legally hooked(I know that it is common sense....but there are a lot of ppl out there that lack common sense)? The only place that I have found any sort of definition is under the selective gear rule. Which is really misleading. Because not all rivers follow selective gear rules. I agree with your interpretation as to the mortal wounding part, but why is that specific definition only listed under that heading. I guess for some clarification my real question would be is there an actual definition as to legally hooked for all rivers??? Thanks for sharing your interpretation.

And Todd......only for trout????? If it isn't intended for salmon and steelhead, why isn't that specified??? Not meaning to say you are wrong or to argue just curious as to where you came up with that? Did you hear it from a gammie?? Just wondering?

RiverGal

Now aren't we subjecting this part of the regs to more fuzzy interpretations? Nowhere does it say "inside the mouth" in regards to trout hooked in the eye or gills. Hooked in the eye means hooked in the eye from the inside or out - now just keep that little 10" stocker (my fuzzy opinion).

IMHFO, We'all shouldn't apply a blanket moral policy towards species so low on the sportfishing hierarchy. Save your mental energy for saving wild steelhead!

The other day I took a coworker out fishing. After limiting on silvers, at his request, we went for flounder. We had no bait, so I tied on 3 oz candlefish. Not one of them flatfish took that 1/0 treb in the mouth. In fact none were even hooked in the head. Every one was a body shot. I definitely didn't feel any guilt bonking each one of those slimy bottom dwellers.

The same goes for excess brat silvers. I say let those people who fish twice a year with those $40 Walmart outfits take home something to eat. They helped pay for them just like WE did. Yeah I'm talking about those of us with the $100 rods and the attitudes like our $hit don't stink...

I'd say that 4 salt is exactly right. hooked in the gill plate is different that what hooked in the gills means. As far as the tongue goes I have caught many coho on spinners that were hooked in the tongue. Sometimes the hook goes into the little "slats" on the back of the tongue and when the hook hits the wrong spit back there the fish will bleed badly. Same goes for the gills. I have however caught lots and lots of fish that had healed eye wounds but were itherwise healthy so I think eye hooked fish can be safely released but thats just my opinion.

Thanks for the extra info. I know the difference between gill and gill plate, but thanks for the info anyway. Got my question answered offline, but thanks for the effort guys.

RiverGal

ALLRIGHT HOHWIAN!!!!!!!