I talked with a friend I had not seen in a couple of years, and asked him if had been doing any fishing. Oh boy has he been fishing. In fact he is going on another guided trip on the Quinault River next weekend. He went to weeks ago with a bud, and they had 22 hook ups, and landed 18. They took 17 fish home. Booted one cause it was a little dark. He said the guid didn't care, and that they were all tribal fish, So take what you want. OH yea, No liscense and no punch card required.

What the H E double tooth picks is up with that.

Since when can the tribe decide how many fish a spotsman can retain?? I hope they get pulled over and checked with all those fish in the truck!!!

First of all you do not need a lic. to fish there due to it being on the resavation. The limits are put out by the tribe to the guides and not all stick to it. The fish are theres from there own resavation hatchery ran and funded by them so why is it they can not set what they want. Just wish are state could take a few pointers from how they run theres.

Your friend didn't have to keep all those fish, did he? I mean, the guide didn't threaten to throw him in the river if he refused to bonk 'em, did he? I think you get my point.

3/0

You missed my point... by no means do I think it was OK to take home 17 fish!!

3/0

You missed my point... by no means do I think it was OK to take home 17 fish!!

lets not assume all the fish caught on the Quanalt are bound for the hatchery,also lets not assume all of the monies involved in that hatchery comes from the tribe

the problem would be the rules that have been set for that stretch of the river, or the guides who break them. don't blame the guy who follows the rules. remember, ethics are not law and are an individual choice. and besides, no matter who hooks them, the indians are going to get their 50% one way or another.

thats just one boat out of many. i was there on the same day. lots of people released most of their fish. we average 20 fish days almost every time we go, but i seldom take any fish home. those fish are all headed to cook creek and are hatchery fish. the nates start coming in mid jan. thru april. we fished above cook creek most of the time this year and we caught mostly silvers. there are very few steelhead above cook creek this time of year, and the ones that are, are headed for the net pens at the lake.

I say good job once again Indians!

Maybe the state should look into their methods. Obviously they are getting enough return to maintain there program so why not send them home with somebody?

It is not a bad thing for salmon to get eaten by humans.

Herm <img border="0" alt="[wall]" title="" src="graemlins/wall.gif" />

I can't wait to get my chance at some. Hope they continue to do a great job with their fishery. All I can say is "right on Quinaults." Love to see that fishing has been good and keep up the good work.

RAN AND FUNDED BY THEM.... Well part of that is right.

Who do you think funded the tribe. And I am pretty sure one of the hatcherys on the Quinalt is federal. Sooooooo.

Who cares how it is funded. The bottom line is they produce the best steelhead returns in the state year after year. They commercial net the steelhead and it hasent had an impact on the great returns. The people that manage this fishery should manage ALL the river hatcheries they have proven year after year they know what they are doing and how many fish they can harvest. GOOD JOB!!!!

I don't think I missed your point in your original post. Perhaps you simply didn't make your intended point clear, as everybody seems to think you are lambasting the tribe.

Assuming all the fish were headed for hatchery, and assuming the hatchery has all the fish they need, might as well send the fish home with somebody. Although I can't imagine what anybody would want with that many fish.

Do a little research and you will find that the current Wild stock on the Quinault has been in decline for the past 20 years. Infact the current wild stock is not geneticly native to the system due to the hatchery practices (its has the heinze 57 of steelhed). It has the most geneticly degraded wild stock in the state and is thought that the true native stock of the Quinault system is gone.

No doubt the Quinault is a factory for harvest. Thats what the Quinaults manage it for and use it for.

It is very clear that the #1 priority in the Quinault is not for the well being of the native stocks. The #1 priority is massive production of hatchery fish for harvest.

I am more concerned about the Wild fish and their future then my personal oportunity so in my opinion because of what I believe the Quinaults do a very bad job in manageing the Quinault river.

Now if all you care about is numbers of fish and personal oportunity regardless of where they came from then the Quinaults do a great job and you belong fishing the Quinault river.

Is the Quinault what you would call a success or a disaster? I gues taht depends on what your values are.

Rich is pretty much correct. Cook Creek is a national fish hatchery funded through the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service. The other Tribal fish programs are most likely funded with federal funds from the rights protection program, either thruough The Bureau of Indian Affairs or via direct appropriation. This is neither good nor bad, but your appreciation may be different if you understand that you're paying the operating expenses of the program through your taxes rather than the Tribe using its own funds.

The Quinaults run an impressive program, but a large return of fish is NOT indicative of a good program. The measure of the Quinault hatchery program is the smolt quality and smolt to adult survival rate they achieve. People often think the Cowlitz is an example of a good hatchery program, not realizing that it is the second largest hatchery system in the world. Based on the survival of its production, the Cowlitz is one of the worst programs. I have no idea how the Quinault programs rates, but given its location and the people involved, I'd speculate that it's one of the better. It would be interesting to know the smolt to adult steelhead survival rate of the Quinault compared to, say, Bogachiel. That would be a meaningful comparison, both being located on the coast a short distance above tide water.

Sincerely,

Salmo g.

This kind of [Bleeeeep!] happens all the time out there , was there on Thurs. below the creek mouth and noticed a couple of boats hammer well over their limits of fish, what can you do, I guess its due to the fact when one hook's fish after fish after fish and not used to a fishery like that or catching that many fish for that matter their natural instinct is to just kill to help their ego or something, just look at the cook creek fishery, haven't been there in a couple of years but i've witnessed guys taking 10-15 fish a piece!! oh well. it's winter and the once-a-year salmon fisherman are almost gone! yippeee......

There River, There Rules , There Fish, Hatchery Fish Mind You, Plenty of them, so many that on spawning days you can go get the leftovers in totes in the parking lot and take home all you want.
So I don't care if they took 100 fish home, it is none of Whitey's business period !!!!
Peace Superfly

RichG - I did a little research and found your opinions to be just that, opinions...don't have a problem with that unless the facts are blurred by opinions. Here are some facts. In 2001 the upper Quinault river escapement was 1846 fish. In 1987 it was 1227. Is this a decline? here are the rest of the 15 years I looked at:
2001-1846
2000-1470
1999-1162
1998-1307
1997-1745
1996-1178
1995-1346
1994-1299
1993-1156
1992-1192
1991-1719
1990-1832
1989-1430
1988-1264
1987-1227
I also know that on the upper Quinault hattchery fish spawn prior to March. Wild fish spawn after March 20 so I think your info on genetics is also opinion.

That March 20th thing is plain bull [Bleeeeep!]. And thats all I have to say about that.

As far as the decline goes it hasnt declined every year its a 20 year average and the run has gone down 1.9% a year over 20 some years. I believe the run has declined by 39% over the past 20 years or so. You can see for your self at http://www.localaccess.com/troutunlimitedITU%20POLICY%20PAPER%20APPENDIX-color.pdf

Most all the rivers on the Peninsula are in decline so the Quinalt isnt the only one.

As far as the genetics purity stuff goes about the wild fish you can find infor about that on the WDFW stock status report of any of the NMFS stock status stuff. You have to look for it and there are bits and pieces here and there.

Like said before above the Lower Quinalt is the Quinalts river and they can manage it how they want to and there is always gonna be plenty of people to pay to use it.

And there is always gonna be people like me that have opinions that differ from theirs. But thats the great thing about America, we can freely debate and do things the way we want to no matter what other people think. Sometimes it dosent matter if its right or wrong but agian thats all opinion.

It's funny how easy it is to find fought with just about everything Indians choose for themselves. Some will try as hard as possible to stir things up by slamming the Indian. Next they will be blamed for Global warming, which is why we have been in a drought? Or for the pollution of our waterways, which kills a lot of native species including us?

I am glad that most of us can see this and don't bite on the hate bait. Those Cowboy and Indian movies sure have a lasting impact. They definitly did'nt help us to nurture and host healthy opinions of Native American.

There are enough problems to go around. Lets learn to point the finger at ourselves for helping to maintain the hostile atmoshere between the Indian community and the rest of society.

wanna talk about hostility? i watched a program the other night and there was this native fellow who drowned his kids off of reservation land and was pissed off that he has to sit in prison, cuz it was "white mans justice" and if he had been on reservation it would of been alot lesser charges, thats total bullshiat, equal justice and condemnation for any color, race, creed...i

I think you're a little off-base John Lee. Rich G wasn't slamming Native Americans, I believe his main point was that on rivers with massive hatchery production, wild steelhead populations usually suffer. Not to single you out either because many of us are guilty, but I am continually amazed at how the true intent of people's posts can so often be missed???

Two things come to mind here! One the reason the escapement on natives last year on the Quinalt was high last year was the tribe had to pull their nets early because of the low sockeye returns allowing a few extra natives to swim upstream unmolested!!! I have fished the upper river for years and believe me the native runs have been declining drastically the past five years, like Rich I kind of like to do my own reed counts to figure out areas to fish the next year and have seen fewer and fewer spawner's every year right on Rich!!!

Thanks 4 Salt. I respect your opinon, but I was responding to the direction the topic is taking. The point I was making was so illustrated by Berkleyboys referance to TV programing and how it shapes opinions. I just bet the reservation that was referred to in that "program" was not the Quinalt. And the criminal involved was not a guide on the Quinalt river. But who cares, this post mentions problems with Indians and lots of people have a problem with Indians. So lets just go for it. People think before you post please and do more fishing and less watching of TV.

Anyone who says I am Bashing Indians is way out of line.

I have fished the Quinault for years with various guides but prefer Robbin Rhoades. He is a hard working guide who could teach some lessons in hard work to many non-indian guides. The fishery is healthy and is definitely a catch and keep show. Robbin guides some of this state's most well known catch and release "experts" as well. That river supports a fair number of tribal members and plays host to fishermen from all over with widely diverse opinions. Check out Robbin's website at www.quinaultguideservice.net..... get his side of this story.

Grandpa,
DITTO....................... I fished sunday with Robbin and try to get out there a few times a year ( salmon too). This fishery is one of my favorites and i will be returning as often as I can. Robbin is a hard working guide. With a great personality. And if your wondering...We landed 7 and keeped 7 They were great fish and awesume day.....

COHOFSHR

Rich G, you're right about opinions and perspectives re the Quinault program, which is a fish factory no doubt, but how do you respond to bwagner's data? You too salmo. Seems pretty solid.

The data looks goog but that is spawning escapement not total run size...

Still amazes me that people can't distinguish between bashing and a legitimate difference of opinion.

Rich -

I always admire your willingness to stick in there and say the unpopular thing when the 'the majority' just don't want to hear it. It was pretty obvious to me that you weren't bashing the Indians at all, just disagreeing with the way they run their fishery and perhaps giving us all another way to look at the numbers.

Thanks!

Blinded By Nunmbers

...its never about the fish, its always about how much you can put in the box! <img border="0" alt="[wall]" title="" src="graemlins/wall.gif" />

Salmonbelly,

Bwagner posted data that are Quinault River steelhead spawning escapements. That has no relationship to who funds the Quinault Tribal hatchery program or that program's productivity, which were the subjects of my post.

Sincerely,

Salmo g.

Salmo, what's your take then on the data. All your comments pertained to hatchery stocks. How would you evaluate the tribal program as regards wild stocks and escapement.

3/0, I stopped by on the way home and gave my sister 2 fish, gave 4 to the old boys down at the Pine Tree, gave 3 to the old guy behind the my shop, gave 3 to Dad, packaged up 3 for my son to take back to college and kept 2 for me to eat. Sure made a lot of people happy that really like fish.

Fishhead5

These were all clipped fish