wanna talk about hostility? i watched a program the other night and there was this native fellow who drowned his kids off of reservation land and was pissed off that he has to sit in prison, cuz it was "white mans justice" and if he had been on reservation it would of been alot lesser charges, thats total bullshiat, equal justice and condemnation for any color, race, creed...i

I think you're a little off-base John Lee. Rich G wasn't slamming Native Americans, I believe his main point was that on rivers with massive hatchery production, wild steelhead populations usually suffer. Not to single you out either because many of us are guilty, but I am continually amazed at how the true intent of people's posts can so often be missed???

Two things come to mind here! One the reason the escapement on natives last year on the Quinalt was high last year was the tribe had to pull their nets early because of the low sockeye returns allowing a few extra natives to swim upstream unmolested!!! I have fished the upper river for years and believe me the native runs have been declining drastically the past five years, like Rich I kind of like to do my own reed counts to figure out areas to fish the next year and have seen fewer and fewer spawner's every year right on Rich!!!

Thanks 4 Salt. I respect your opinon, but I was responding to the direction the topic is taking. The point I was making was so illustrated by Berkleyboys referance to TV programing and how it shapes opinions. I just bet the reservation that was referred to in that "program" was not the Quinalt. And the criminal involved was not a guide on the Quinalt river. But who cares, this post mentions problems with Indians and lots of people have a problem with Indians. So lets just go for it. People think before you post please and do more fishing and less watching of TV.

Anyone who says I am Bashing Indians is way out of line.

I have fished the Quinault for years with various guides but prefer Robbin Rhoades. He is a hard working guide who could teach some lessons in hard work to many non-indian guides. The fishery is healthy and is definitely a catch and keep show. Robbin guides some of this state's most well known catch and release "experts" as well. That river supports a fair number of tribal members and plays host to fishermen from all over with widely diverse opinions. Check out Robbin's website at www.quinaultguideservice.net..... get his side of this story.

Grandpa,
DITTO....................... I fished sunday with Robbin and try to get out there a few times a year ( salmon too). This fishery is one of my favorites and i will be returning as often as I can. Robbin is a hard working guide. With a great personality. And if your wondering...We landed 7 and keeped 7 They were great fish and awesume day.....

COHOFSHR

Rich G, you're right about opinions and perspectives re the Quinault program, which is a fish factory no doubt, but how do you respond to bwagner's data? You too salmo. Seems pretty solid.

The data looks goog but that is spawning escapement not total run size...

Still amazes me that people can't distinguish between bashing and a legitimate difference of opinion.

Rich -

I always admire your willingness to stick in there and say the unpopular thing when the 'the majority' just don't want to hear it. It was pretty obvious to me that you weren't bashing the Indians at all, just disagreeing with the way they run their fishery and perhaps giving us all another way to look at the numbers.

Thanks!

Blinded By Nunmbers

...its never about the fish, its always about how much you can put in the box! <img border="0" alt="[wall]" title="" src="graemlins/wall.gif" />

Salmonbelly,

Bwagner posted data that are Quinault River steelhead spawning escapements. That has no relationship to who funds the Quinault Tribal hatchery program or that program's productivity, which were the subjects of my post.

Sincerely,

Salmo g.

Salmo, what's your take then on the data. All your comments pertained to hatchery stocks. How would you evaluate the tribal program as regards wild stocks and escapement.

3/0, I stopped by on the way home and gave my sister 2 fish, gave 4 to the old boys down at the Pine Tree, gave 3 to the old guy behind the my shop, gave 3 to Dad, packaged up 3 for my son to take back to college and kept 2 for me to eat. Sure made a lot of people happy that really like fish.

Fishhead5

These were all clipped fish