Please Visit our Advertisers' Sites

Salmon & Steelhead Journal

Willie boats!
Topic Options
Rate This Topic
#170963 - 12/28/05 04:11 PM Health Care In America
Dave Vedder Online   content
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/09/02
Posts: 3318
Loc: West Duvall
Every year more and more Americans are without health care. Small businesses are dropping health care because of skyrocketing premiums. I am not sure of the exact percentages, but there are a huge number of uninsured Americans. My questions are. Do you see the lack of health care as a problem? If so what are your proposed solutions.

Top
#170964 - 12/28/05 05:54 PM Re: Health Care In America
Dan S. Online   content
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/07/99
Posts: 5132
Loc: SE Olympia, WA
Quote:
Do you see the lack of health care as a problem? If so what are your proposed solutions.
Yes.

I don't know. It's a complicated issue that we've failed to address in any significant way. As usual, once it becomes a crisis, it may be addressed.
_________________________
We talked away a couple of hours, then she laid her hand on my lap.
Oooh, I though I got to be dreamin', I didn't know I fell in her trap.

Bon Scott, Soul Stripper


Top
#170965 - 12/28/05 06:41 PM Re: Health Care In America
stam Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/03/04
Posts: 3639
Loc: Taking the "fifth" on this one
Dave, nice one.

You mean I have a choice?? I could stop paying it?? As a small biz guy I pay dearly for my guys insurance, over 1000.00 American dollars per month for 2 young healthy American males, as opposed to under 400.00 per month 3 years ago. Three years ago our shop rate was 44.00 per hr. today it's 44 per hr. I'm pretty much controlled by the Insurance industry and can't just raise my rates...so yes, I do see it as a problem, and No, I don't have any proposed solutions, but I sure would like to hear what others are doing for their employees or plan to do to be able to keep the doors open and have employees.

Who's getting rich off of this..Doctors? Lawyers? Nurses? the ins. industry? I do not know, but the dough is going somewhere and I'm writin' the check...ouch!
_________________________
I'm only going to try steelheading once......I'm not going to be like that guy.

http://community.webshots.com/user/stamtma?vhost=community

model citizen, zero discipline

Top
#170966 - 12/28/05 08:50 PM Re: Health Care In America
SuckerSnagger Offline
Spawner

Registered: 12/29/04
Posts: 577
Loc: Richland,Washington
I was reading here awhile back that we spend more per person on health care in this country than anyplace else in the world, and get less for our money.

The gist of the article was that health care costs makes it hard for American businesses to compete. The experiences of businesses with thousands of employees parallels Stam's experience with two.

Where does the money go? Into the huge, politically powerful, and very inefficient (in terms of care provided per dollar)health care and insurance industry.

Solution? Move away from health insurance attached to a job and toward a single payer system.
_________________________
I was on the bank.

Top
#170967 - 12/29/05 07:19 PM Re: Health Care In America
fishpolelease Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 10/19/05
Posts: 397
Loc: port ludlow
I think that lack of insurance is a problem. I tend to lay the blame on the insurance industry as I have a "pre-existing" condition that will require regular visits for the rest of my life. I know how hard it is to get the insurance company to pay, everytime, and everyone I know that is in the same boat, has the same problem with their insurance company. They take billions in revenue every year and pay out as little as possible. I pay for health insurance, business insurance, car insurance. I have line items for terrorist coverage, and I pay more to insurance companies than I do in taxes and I haven't made any type of insurance claim in over five years, and none that were my fault in over ten.

I don't think I'm alone in this:

http://www.pnhp.org/news/2004/october/break_the_insurance_.php

It appaears that our legislature is trying to help at the state level:

http://hdc.leg.wa.gov/members/clibborn/20050504_healthcare_kids.asp
_________________________
"Gentlemen, you can't fight in here, this is the War Room!"
President Merkin Muffley

Top
#170968 - 12/29/05 08:54 PM Re: Health Care In America
SuckerSnagger Offline
Spawner

Registered: 12/29/04
Posts: 577
Loc: Richland,Washington
Thanks for the links, fishpole. Quoting from the first one:

"“Our medical system is dysfunctional and bad not just for our health, but for our entire economy,” said Bernard Rapoport, founder and former CEO of the American Income Life Insurance Company. Rapoport, a member of the America’s Agenda governing board, said “soaring costs are undermining the competitiveness of American business in the global economy. The U.S. is the only country in the industrialized world that doesn’t have publicly-financed health insurance, so American companies are burdened with expenses others don’t have, endangering our manufacturing base.” As examples, he cited Ford Motor Co. that spends $3.2 billion a year on health premiums and General Motors that spends more on health than on steel."


The way we finance health care is bad for businesses and bad for America.

The wierd thing is that we have this huge politically powerful monster, the health insurance industry, which is a parasite with a strangle hold on the health care system.

Even the new Medicare Drug program is set up for the benefit of the insurance companies and the drug companies, not for the benefit of seniors.

The drug program is run through insurance companies. To get benefits you have to sign up for an insurance company plan. The insurance companies are totally parasitic. They are like a mafia, skimming off a substantial part of whatever we spend on healthcare.
_________________________
I was on the bank.

Top
#170969 - 12/30/05 12:29 PM Re: Health Care In America
Salmo g. Online   content
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 3921
The lack of health care for a significant portion of the population in the weathiest nation in the world is indicative of a problem. Although unpopular in this country, the most realistic response is some form of national health care. As the post above reflects, however, it's hard to pass national interest legislation with such powerful special interests buying up Senators and Congressmen like they were real estate.

Top
#170970 - 12/30/05 01:11 PM Re: Health Care In America
stlhead Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 3247
Even corp America who whines about the rising cost of health care would be against a national system as it removes the big lure/hold on employees. To receive decent health care in today's world you need a job or wealth. One downside to a national system like in the UK is that a persons "worth" determines their position in the queue to receive procedures and such. "Worth" does not just mean wealth but position and/or value in/to society. So, the poor still receive less.

Top
#170971 - 01/03/06 10:17 AM Re: Health Care In America
Theking Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/10/03
Posts: 4908
Loc: The right side of the line
If X sporting goods had a sign on the door saying they have marked up their prices 15% to provide every every employee with heatlh care and donated any balance to a free health care provider to the poor would you do business with them. How about if you could get all your fishing gear for 25% less a few blocks away?

I say it's like enviornmentalism,free trade and other issues in this world I think you are all talk and no action and I say you go for the lowest price. The revenue numbers of the big chains supports me.
_________________________
Liberalism is a mental illness!

Top
#170972 - 01/03/06 10:20 AM Re: Health Care In America
Dave D Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/04/01
Posts: 3637
Loc: Gold Bar
I would like to see the Government spend less money on missles and more on health care.
_________________________
A.K.A
Lead Thrower

Top
#170973 - 01/03/06 10:54 AM Re: Health Care In America
salmosalar Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 07/05/05
Posts: 352
Loc: bellingham
The fact is we pay more here in the US per capita than most other industrialized country and we still have literally millions of uninsured. It is a question of efficiency. I do believe in free enterprise, but certain things need to be dealt with as a country. Security and health care are the 2 that come to mind.
I would in fact spend the extra 15%. I buy organic produce, shop locally, have succesfully avoided wal-mart for over 4 years now. I am not perfect bu yes I do try to vote with my wallett as well.
At the end of the day I am pro-american. I want Americans to have health care and I know that a single payer system is more efficient for ALL. One can't have freedom and liberty if the basics are not accesable.
I speak from experience. I had several years in my low 20's without coverage and boy it was scary. I was employed at jobs that you would think would have health care but didn't. I ended up taking a crappy job because it had health care. I do still remember.
Come back Theo,
cds
_________________________
redsox

Top
#170974 - 01/03/06 11:36 AM Re: Health Care In America
Dave Vedder Online   content
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/09/02
Posts: 3318
Loc: West Duvall
TK: I beleive that you are right about most consumers shopping where they get the best price.

My questions to you are: Do you beleive we have a health care problem in the U.S.? If so, what would you propose as a solution?

Top
#170975 - 01/03/06 12:01 PM Re: Health Care In America
Sol Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 12/19/03
Posts: 7537
Loc: Poulsbo
I think people need to get off their fat asses and adhear to a reasonable diet and excersize on a regular basis. Instead, people wait until they're sick and jam the doctor's office looking for a pharmisudical fix and then put the crisis off on the government or health care institution.
_________________________
"I realize this is frowned upon, but...............

Top
#170976 - 01/03/06 12:02 PM Re: Health Care In America
Theking Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/10/03
Posts: 4908
Loc: The right side of the line
Dave,

I think there is an issue at some levels. In most cases I think it is about choices and priorities in life. We have cases here recently on PP that serve as a good examples. In other cases it is of no choice or overt action. I do not believe that people should lose everything because they get cancer and I do not think that poor people should suffer in ill health simply based on their economics. I think there should be national standards as a guide line and let each state decide on implementation. I prefer the state paying the premiums to a private system and they should not be in the provideing role. We should be ruthless to stop abuse of the eventual system.
_________________________
Liberalism is a mental illness!

Top
#170977 - 01/03/06 12:09 PM Re: Health Care In America
salmosalar Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 07/05/05
Posts: 352
Loc: bellingham
Wow,
TK this sounds like social contract sort of stuff from you. Good on Ya!
Please Theo,
cds
_________________________
redsox

Top
#170978 - 01/03/06 12:34 PM Re: Health Care In America
stlhead Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 3247
Even the industry admits that US citizens pay the R&D costs of health care. For starters why not spread the cost to other countries? Why are we footing the bill while rapidly becoming one of the worst health care providers in the world?

Top
#170979 - 01/03/06 01:05 PM Re: Health Care In America
stlhead Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 3247
Lifestyle is a slippery slope. What about rock climbers or skate boarders? Also, leaving it up to the states would drive down quality IMO. If a state offers higher quality than others the influx and bombardment on the system would inevitablely drive down quality and drive up cost. Citizens with major problems would shop states for treatment. Can you imagine all terminal cancer patients moving to WA state?

Top
#170980 - 01/03/06 01:55 PM Re: Health Care In America
Theking Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/10/03
Posts: 4908
Loc: The right side of the line
The state would not offer any servce except to foot the bill for premiums for said services through a private insurer. You would have to meet resident requirements. The feds would have a similar programs I suppose for those in the gaps.
_________________________
Liberalism is a mental illness!

Top


Moderator:  Big_Daddy, Bob, Fishgal, Jerry Garcia 
Search

Shout Box

Recent Gallery Pix
Titanium Cranium - Pictures of my sled
clack
Who's Online
37 Registered (Aaron Hartwell, AkKings, bustinbig, Chrome-Cracker, Chum Man, ClearCreek, Dan S., 9 invisible), 68 Guests and 2 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
Pilot47, stlhdr42, Slabby20, Row Row, bommerscheim
7872 Registered Users
Top Posters
AuntyM 10120
Sol 7537
parker 7191
Todd 6716
Bob 5202
Dan S. 5132
Theking 4908
STRIKE ZONE 4303
Kanektok Kid 4007
fishNphysician 3994
Forum Stats
7872 Members
17 Forums
47040 Topics
457316 Posts

Max Online: 460 @ 03/07/08 06:52 PM

Join the PP forums.

It's quick, easy, and always free!

Live Chat - open 24/7.

Hosted chat with Bob on Monday nights from Oct -May.

Working for the fish and our future fishing opportunities:

The Wild Steelhead Coalition

The Photo & Video Gallery. Nearly 1200 images from our fishing trips! Tips, techniques, live weight calculator & more in the Fishing Resource Center. Prime dates for '09 Winter Steelhead trips are getting full, don't miss out!.

| HOME | ALASKA FISHING | WASHINGTON FISHING | RIVER REPORTS | CHARTER RATES | CONTACT US | WHAT ABOUT BOB? | PHOTO GALLERY | VIDEOS | FISHING RESOURCE CENTER | LEARN ABOUT THE FISH | RECIPES | LINKS | SITE HELP & FAQ |

 

This site, pages, and images designed by and copyright material of Bob Ball, Bob's Piscatorial Pursuits - Alaska and Washington Steelhead, Salmon, and Halibut Fishing Guides / Charters - Forks, Washington and Soldotna, Alaska, USA. Encounter any problems?? If so, please Email us.