Un employment down to 4.9% the dolw near 11k job growth high. The forecast for deficit reduction by the end of GW's term is looking like he will blow the target of a 50% reduction away. Come on lefties someone drop a deuce on my happy dance I am having too much fun here.

WALMART did a bunch of hiring for Christmas. Not even you can possibly believe Bush will cut the deficit in half by the end of his term.

""Ronald Reagan proved that deficits don't matter," snapped Vice President Richard Cheney to about-to-be-fired Treasury Secretary Paul O'Neill"

So why are Neocons worried about the deficit? Is it because deficits do matter?

The Iraq war will end up costing 3-4 Trillion

50% reduction, No Way

According to Greenspans office this week yes way.

I will get back to ya when he leaves office then.

Only way to really know.

Let's actually post facts...."Job growth below expectations in December"

http://today.reuters.com/News/NewsArticle.aspx?type=businessNews&storyID=uri:2006-01-06T163208Z_01_HO648638_RTRUKOC_0_US-ECONOMY-JOBS.xml&pageNumber=1&summit=

Sure but maybe you should pull your head out first?


"but for the two months of October and November, the net effect was 71,000 more jobs than the government previously had estimated.

On average over 2005, some 168,250 new jobs were created each month -- a steady if unspectacular pace of growth."

And when the Holidays are over everyone gets laid off.

Unspectacular....you don't know that word do you?

If some on handed you 168,250 pennies today would you call that unspectacular?

A 4.9% unemployment rate and 168K new jobs a month is spectacular by any measure.

Tk, you do realize that the unemployment statistics include all of the still out of work folks who's benefits have now expired, so they're no longer counted as being unemployed... right?

168k new jobs at McDonalds and Burger King ain't gonna get too many folks the American dream.

If everything is so peachy... why are good paying manufacturing jobs (like GM for example) still disappearing at an alarming rate?

Not to mention how many of those folks had to replace one decent job with two lousy paying jobs or even three.

"Tk, you do realize that the unemployment statistics include all of the still out of work folks who's benefits have now expired, so they're no longer counted as being unemployed... right?"

Yes, What's your point. the effective unemployment rate is abot 2.5 % if you wanted to remove seaonsal workers etc. People truely between jobs. Restaurant employee's in tourist markets for example lay off in the winter and file for UE and go work as ski instructors in Aspen for cash or go to Coasta rica and rent jetski's off a platform for $250 a day for their HS and college buddies. I have two people I went to college with that do this.


168k new jobs at McDonalds and Burger King ain't gonna get too many folks the American dream.

Standard liberal drivel.

If everything is so peachy... why are good paying manufacturing jobs (like GM for example) still disappearing at an alarming rate?

Because of people like you 4 Salt


Because 99% of the worlds populationis willing to work cheaper.

Lets just take the Minimum wage increase in this state as a example of some of the issues. My Bro in law is in this boat right now as a manufacture. He hires minimum wage employees to stuff parts in little bags and ship them to clients. The minimum wage increase in this state that just took effect just pushed all of those jobs to China. He has no choice he is locked into 5 year price contracts with Boeing and Micron, Intel etc.

Who pushed that legislation?

Lets take another example. A few years ago Calif. enacted a similar boost in the minimum wage. Peior to that 85% of the garlic produced and consumed in the US came from calif. A year after the wage increase 90% of the garlic consumed in the US came from China. How much garlic do you eat 4 salt? Did you even have a clue how many jobs where lost so your price stayed the same?

Who pushed that legislation?

The dollar in your wallet is sending jobs over seas everytime you hand it to someone that is not supplying you with 100% made in America goods.

How did you do this Christmas Season 4 salt did you hand out only American made goods?

You got to understand that for TK and his fraternity, what's good for the wealthy and the corporations is good for America. Nothing wrong with a massive transfer of wealth from the middle class to the wealthy. Nothing wrong with fiscal irresponsibility which will place huge burdens on our children....so long as present policy benefits the rich.

If you have TK's social and political views, crony capitalism is a fine economic system!

4 Salt did it.

"Nothing wrong with a massive transfer of wealth from the middle class to the wealthy"

What is wrong is that you people are the ones initating the transfer, fuleing the transfer and 100% responsible for the transfer and refuse to accept your role in the matter. It's easier to blame the Govt. bug business. Much like you balme other people for your station in life.


It is a terrible thing to have happen. Its even worse to facilitate it and not accept ones role in the matter. But hey you are environmentalist and non racists also so It is no surprise you swallow your own BS.

Only Napoleon could be excited that it took over 5 years for this administration to overcome the weakest recession in history.

Yep, all TK's clothing bears the "Made In USA" lable, as he buys it all in person in Saipan, Northern Mariana Islands on trips there with Jack Abramoff.

WSU

Duckie,

"Yep, all TK's clothing bears the "Made In USA" lable"

Well since you are the one all over spelling maybe you should spell check label?

I am not the one crying in his beer over lost jobs am I? So whats your point?


How come darwinism is OK to rule out God but it's bad when applied to economics or kids in school or on the athletic feild? Theres that lack of consistancy thing with the left rearing its ugly head again. Damn!

" Govt. bug business"
Engarde!!--Touche

TK's glass house must be HUGE!

" Its even worse to facilitate it and not accept ones role in the matter"
So you're telling me that there is nothing labeled Made in China under your ownership??

He was the animal.

Oh, sweet irony.

Duckie,

I accept my role in it. I am also smart enough to accept that we are headed towards a two class system in this country that will reflect the rest of the world. It is based on our spending and consumption habits. I do not balme the Govt. i do not blame business I blame consumers 100% There is no middle class in the world by our measure. On the other side of the coin being economic isolationists brings a whole host of issues as well.

"The dollar in your wallet is sending jobs over seas everytime you hand it to someone that is not supplying you with 100% made in America goods."

OK... but your diatribe still fails to explain how the economy could be "rolling"... while American middle class workers have "lifestyle choiced" themselves into the lower wage, less discressionary spending position they are in today?

Who is the economy REALLY "rolling" for... besides the top 1%?

Sorry Dan... I didn't mean to do it!

"OK... but your diatribe still fails to explain how the economy could be "rolling"... while American middle class workers have "lifestyle choiced" themselves into the lower wage, less discressionary spending position they are in today?:

#1 That his not a complete process yet.

#2 ever hear of credit?

Also take a look at what the avg. person has done with their home via the lower mortgage rates. It will suprise you. Take a look at wages even though they are creeping up a bit. Then take a look at savings there is your answer.

So, I'm just reaching here, but are you not aware that we allow N. Mariana Islands to stamp products "made in USA"? Have you forgotten that DeLay himself went to Saipan and remarked about how great it was to see America at work, as he was surrounded by slaves from the third world. This was yet another nasty lobby campaign worked out by Abramoff through his buddy DeLay. I'm glad you accept your role, but if you have anything in your home that is MADE IN ? (insert country other than USA here) you are not practicing what you preach, you are apart of the problem.
The two class system that the neo-cons are reaching for is based on greed, nothing else, the rich have the power to be more rich, so...

TK, it seems like sometimes you get all you talking points from The Project for the New American Century.

"I'm glad you accept your role, but if you have anything in your home that is MADE IN ? (insert country other than USA here) you are not practicing what you preach, you are apart of the problem.
The two class system that the neo-cons are reaching for is based on greed, nothing else, the rich have the power to be more rich, so... "

I am preaching that you are all hypocrites for creating the very process you want to pawn off as a conspiracy of "the rich" and Corps" to get richer. You friggen idiots are handing it to them by the container load. I am all for people making people rich and poor if that is what they want to do. I am not for people doing it and crying about it. You cannot be that slow can you?

I am however pro isolationist. I would like to see all free trade end and I would tarrif the [Bleeeeep!] out of competing gooods to the US.

Well then, where are we going to get all the uranium to keep your poor(bottom class) paranoid self feel safe.
The problem is that we are in a double deficit, we have used up our surplus and gone into record debt and we import about $617 billion a year more than we export. Is isolationism going to fix that??
We have generated a huge debt at about $2 billion a day. China and Japan, with higher exports hold a lot of american currency. Consider the South Koreans with about $200 billion, when they considered trading it in on a stronger currency caused the dollar to drop 3%. What's going to happen as we continue on the path is that eventually China and Japan will favor stronger currencies (where's that leave us??).

It would be much easier to take the word of a house hen that has only worked at dairy queen back in the 60's . Let the men talk and go open a package and microwave dinner.

Yeah, let's try isolationism.

I especially want the oil stopped. You know, so the economy doesn't stumble.

Oh, hold it...........

Aunty, I thought China has been slowly liquidating for awhile now. I'm sorry to sound so narrow minded, I actually think it's a blend of problems, like outsourcing, deficit, continued tax breaks, lop sided world economy, emerging technologies that allow once restricted regions more input and influence in today's world. I don't portend to have the answer, but I don't think isolationism has a chance. Unless the world is prepared to revert to the dark ages for awhile.

"The dollar in your wallet is sending jobs over seas everytime you hand it to someone that is not supplying you with 100% made in America goods. "

It sounds like the solution, ala TK, is to not give his bro in law any business now that he off shored.

I don't know why you guys are worried about China; Napoleon already said their economy would collapse last year....

Wait... last year?

TK,

I cringe everytime you mention Darwinism.

Evolution is a fact substantiated by a fossil record. Now, if you share the belief of many superstitious people that "God" created the fossil record to "test our faith", nothing more needs to be said.

Charles Darwin did not invent evolution. He wrote a book on the subject in the mid 19th Century, The Origin of Species, which pulled together a lot of ideas going around at the time and which was widely influential.

Calling evolutionary theory Darwinism is as inane as calling physics Newtonism.

One phrase from Darwin's book captured the popular imagination: "survival of the fittest"

Darwin never intended, and no serious student of evolution has ever claimed "the fittest" meant the most powerful or the strongest or the most dominant. If that were the case T-Rex and/or Saber Tooth Tigers would still be dominant predators.

Social Darwinism came into vogue in England in the late 19th Century as a perversion of the phrase "survival of the fittest" to justify the horrific conditions of the time for factory workers and to justify the dominant social order and English imperialism. It had nothing to do with any reputable scientific theories about evolution, and nothing whatsoever to do with "fitness" as Darwin used the term. Social Darwinism was, and is, crap, popularization of the lowest order.

So what is "fitness" in evolutionary terms?
Determining fitness only works in hindsight. A "fit" physical characteristic is one which has survived.

In order to predict what characteristic will prove to be fit in the future,i.e, will survive, one would need to be able to predict the future.

In general, and certainly in the modern era, when ecological systems have undergone rapid change, there has been a premium on characteristics which increase flexibility in a species.

Hazarding a guess, I would predict that catfish or their descendants will do better in the future than Steelhead or their descendants.

(The ability mammals have to form habits in lieu of hard wired behaviors increases flexibilty because it allows the mammal to deal with temporarily unchanging aspects of the environment on autopilot, freeing up attention for dealing with aspects which are changing.)

Highly specialized species (Steelhead?) are often short on flexibility and tend to go extinct quicker than less specialized species.

Humans have been here just an eyeblink on the evolutionary time scale. Hard to say whether we will survive in our present form for long. Maybe we will. Maybe we will evolve into something else. Maybe evolutionary descendants of rats will do better over the long run.

TK, as a personal favor, please stop expounding Social Darwinism. It's embarassing.

SS,

"Evolution is a fact substantiated by a fossil record"

It's called the "theory" not the fact of evolution. Please cite the scientific communitities that claim it to be provable fact by generally accepted scientific guidelines? I should really stop right here because your level of understanding on the matter is clearly lacking. But in an effort to teach I will continue.

There is no documented fossil records that can be certified complete. For any species. There is assunption and generally accepted "thoretical" complete fossil records.

"Darwin never intended, and no serious student of evolution has ever claimed "the fittest" meant the most powerful or the strongest or the most dominant."

But more often than not this class is the survivor.

SS the term social Darwinism is cureently beiung uesed and has always been used to describe a process. You cannot untie it just because you do not like it. Quit trying to pretend that you have the power to change things and just accept the fact that the club you use is often the club that will be used against you.

tk also thinks that the world is 6000 years old and he is a member of the Discovery Institute and The Flat Earth Society. You can not have an intelligent discussion with anyone who does not have an open mind and truely it seems that tk has closed his mind to everything but the world according to tk.

Stever,

You have never been a liar here before. Misinformed but not a liar. Show me where I have said this? "tk also thinks that the world is 6000 years old"

Showing that evolution is just a theory and like all unproven postualtes and that it has holes is a far cry from writing it off as a posibliltiy. Which is what most non belivers have done with the role of "god" in such events.

read all you wish http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/organizations/
Am I correct about the other two? The first one kind of goes hand in hand with the other two. I was guessing about all three so 2 out of three isn't bad. Belief in an omnipotent being is not science. The existance of one neither can be proven or disproven, it is not science. Postulates by defination require no proof. The American Heritage Dictionary defines "postulates" as;
1)To make claim for, demand. 2)To assume the truth or reality of with no proof. Again not science.

Stever,
I have read TO from front to back several times and most of the linked stuff as well. I have also taken 400 level biology courses in college. "You can not have an intelligent discussion with anyone who does not have an open mind " So how many times have you read the bible and taken bible study courses?. Read it a few times do some precept level courses and we can talk about it since your mind is so open. Your terms as stated above.

The Bible is a collection of books. No science, again it is belief. There is no proof. One must believe in the omnipotent being. That is the basis for religion, belief. There isn't any science involved, just because you know it to be so in your heart doesn't make it so. Don't confuse belief with knowledge. Science is science and creationism is belief not science. Don't confuse the two.

I would say you have as much or more faith in evolution. I doubt evolution will ever be more than just a theory as much as you believe it to be fact. For all you people tout science there is one point you overlook. There is infinate times more unkown than known Re evolution.

Well, it's impossible to say for sure what "the survivor" will be, since we can't say for sure what the future will be.

But in the past the survivor has often been the most flexible.

Q: What do you call a dead blond in the closet
A: The 2001 hide and go seek champion

KT: "Showing that evolution is just a theory and like all unproven postualtes and that it has holes is a far cry from writing it off as a posibliltiy. Which is what most non belivers have done with the role of "god" in such events."

It seems that a non-believer, by definition, is one who has written off the possibility of the existence of God. Doesn't seem like there's a lot of room to be open to the possibility of God. As for believers, again, by definition, and depending on the nature of their belief, it would seem as though they have closed themselve off to the possibility that evolution explains diversity and changes in life forms.

KT makes an infinite number of assumptions about the participants in this forum, since he's sure we all overlook the fact that there's less known about evolution than is unknown. Now there's some keen intellectual perception for us to ponder. Funny, I've never seen anyone here post that everything important about evolution is already known.

SG,

When people post it as and treat it as fact and not theory it's a very logical leap. A real short leap.

Having observed some of the leaps you make here keeps me well appraised of that fact.

Gravity is an observable physical phenonema. We can say gravity is a fact. Gravity was happening long before the Theory of Universal Gravitation was thunk up by some old boy that didn't live close to a Steelhead river and had nothing better to do with his time than to ponder about things like that.

A theory does not invent a phenomena. It attempts to explain it.

The existence of the phenomena of evolution has been well established by the fossil record. Evolution happens.

How does it happen?

Well, Evolutionary Theory, or The Theory of Evolution, is the body of work which attempts to explain how evolution, the phenomena, works.

If currently accepted theories about gravity or evolution were discredited or supplanted by other theories, that would not mean that the phenomenae the theories were attemping to explain did not exist.

SS,

Careful. You're getting way too technical for KT's simple way of understanding the world. You're leaving him no option other than deflecting the issue. Watch.

The leap from ape to man in terms of observable phenomena or artifacts is how big of a leap. Whats the smallest gap in years. Talk about faith. You may want to make the jump and go with the thought that what is true for invertabrates or even crustaceans is treansferable to man. If I had an analogous financial opportuntiy for you you would not invest a dime on such an obviously risky prospectus and certainly not bet your life. But it works if you want to rationalize something.

" invertabrates or even crustaceans "

What's this have to do with your blood line?

Now wait a minute TK! If I remember right, recent reseach says gorillas are about 98% genetically identical to humans. (Anybody have the exact number?)

How close a correspondence you want? 99%? 99.9%?

If a primate was discovered in the swamps of Arkansas which was a "missing link" between ape and man, you would want a "missing link" between the 'missing link" and man.

SS,

That last post of yours lowered the liberal IQ here to about the ape level.

TK,
You sure use the term "liberal" freely.

I'm a traditional conservative, being a strong advocate of fiscal responsibility and caution in managing the foreign affairs of our nation. I'm an advocate of responsibility and integrity in government. Furthermore I completely reject your leader's notion that the Constitution is "just a goddamned piece of paper." I have great respect for the Constitution.

You neocons have a habit of calling everybody that hasn't drunk the cool aid a liberal. Next thing you know, you will be calling Bob Barr a liberal!

So if my post about the very close genetic similarity between the other great apes and humans lowered the IQ of the board, it didn't lower the liberal average.

"I'm a traditional conservative,"

And Truman capote was a linebacker in the NFL.

Any conservative would note that this admin has assembled one if not the most high powered and dynamic foreign affiars teams in the history of this country. Its a who's who of well respected and tenured professionals.

A traditional conservative believes in God something you clearly do not.

This admin needs work on spending but then again so does the average citizen in this country. A traditional conervative would have the hatchet out on spending but would never get elected again.

Your comments about apes and man wrt evolution shows you need to go to talk origins and read slower this time.

Huh? Damn, I must be hallucinating! You can't be serious! Seems like I read just a few weeks ago where Collin Powell's top aide said that a "cabal" of Cheney and Rumsfeld bypassed the State Department and seized control of the foreign affairs of the nation.

Oh, about the "God" thing. First time I ever heard there was a religious test to be a conservative. That's news to me!

In general, I'm not a superstitious person myself, though I did wrap 14/7 on my egg loops for years. In general, I'm more comfortable with scientific explanation than mythical explantion.

Keep America great again, lol

Nice deep dive.

Is TheKing still here by a different name or is he a stereotype?

The guy was a classic, he came and went for a while, he saw himself as the ultimate christian soldier, he was the first I saw here that created an alternate account just to suck his own dick, tell us how great he was and to prove he had a friend...him and Sol going at it pretty much put the dark in the darkside, Sol closing his startlingly accurate psychological profile of Elvis with something about "... fantasies of [Bleeeeep!] your own mother" pretty well sent him off into the sunset.