Here's a modest, soft spoken, but informative reminder about what Georgie has done for our country.

"The Latest Bush Mega-Catastrophe Is Now Pharmaceuticals
By Harvey Wasserman
The Free Press

Monday 16 January 2006

No matter what you think of George W. Bush, he is staking out his claim as a bona fide Horseman of the Apocalypse.

With his Hand of Hell in Iraq already yielding countless dead, $200 billion wasted and a global war again Islam well on its way to Armageddon, Bush has definitively established his ability to wreck unparalleled disaster on a global scale with zero positive outcome.

By drowning New Orleans and turning its alleged rebuilding plan into a sinkhole of corruption and disarray, he has shown he can lay waste to an entire American city.

And now he is visiting disease and death on tens of millions of our elderly and ill with a botched Medicare/Medicaid drug plan that has plunged the nation's pharmacies into total chaos while driving the states even closer to bankruptcy. As you read this, millions of Americans are without medications that may be life-sustaining because of what Bush has done to "improve" their pharmaceutical plan.

One can only shudder at what might come next.

There have, of course, been lesser catastrophes, or ones whose long-term devastation is primarily political.

Bush's No Child Left Behind program has utterly poisoned our national educational system and gutted state budgets.

Bush's economic programs have taken a national surplus and turned it into a gargantuan debt, almost incalculable in its devastating implications for our future.

Bush's "War on Terror" has in fact been a war on civil rights and liberties, stripping the US of its basic democracy while leaving us more vulnerable than ever to terror attacks on nuclear plants, chemical facilities, our ports and air lanes.

Bush's "Homeland Security" agency is by all accounts a fetid swamp of corruption, mismanagement and ineptitude.

Bush's Patriot Acts I & II have shredded our most sacred document, the Bill of Rights, and opened the door to full-scale dictatorship while defiling everything the men and women who founded this country stood for.

Bush's embrace of torture has cast the US in the role of a sordid, sadistic demon wallowing in the very "cruel and unusual punishment" forbidden by its own Constitution.

Bush's universal spy program has turned a nation founded on reverence for privacy, free speech and due process into a cynical Big Brother with utter contempt for individual rights or liberties.

Bush's theft of two consecutive presidential elections has turned the right to vote into a tragic joke. Team Bush-Rove has gutted the ideal of free and fair elections while giving the GOP a death grip on the nation's electronic voting machines, creating a permanent one-party franchise.

There is, of course, much much more.

This new pharmaceutical crisis has yet again an administration that is amazingly incompetent by any and all non-partisan measures of basic management skills.

One can have an opinion about the war in Iraq. But no one on any side of the issue can argue that the effort has been run with anything but complete arrogance, idiocy and incompetence.

One can have an opinion about New Orleans. But even an administration overtly intent on killing the city could hardly have done a more thorough job.

And now we watch Bush lay utter waste to a Medicaid/Medicare program defined by red tape and inequity, but which has at least delivered pharmaceuticals to people who rely on them.

Bush's "reform" is a gratuitous, greed-based scheme to pour still more billions into drug company coffers. And now millions of poor, sick Americans are being turned away from pharmacies because Bush's plan is incomprehensible, unworkable, and has left them unable to pay for the medicines that are keeping them alive.

To their credit, many states are trying to pick up the slack. But some are not, or cannot.

One could say that this relentless injection of chaos and confusion into the body politic fits a conspiratorial pattern for utterly demoralizing the nation. One could argue that it's a conscious shot at total social deconstruction, provoking the End Times so fervently embraced by the fundamentalist fringe of Franklin Graham and Pat Robertson, the most unChristian men in America.

But at this point, even conservative Republicans are scrambling to distance themselves from the utter, astonishing incompetence of a national leader so obviously unfit to handle the job on the most basic administrative levels.

Nothing could be more indicative of the utter contempt Team Bush harbors for average Americans than the concept, design and execution of this latest catastrophe.

Except for the one that will come next…. "

-------

i agree perfectly....... im sure that tk and rory have different views.....of course their view is from deep inside their own asses as they hate America and love Bush

The other day I was at my pharmacy. In front of me was a frail woman at least 80+ years old. She was picking up a prescription for a stomach med. It rang up as $124 after whatever insurance she had. Most likely Medicare. I thought she was going to drop from shock right there. She said she couldn't afford it and left. It's not right! She should get free meds IMO.

Just like Bush promised, right? He wouldn't lie to us would he? wait.... wait....

"She said she couldn't afford it and left. It's not right! She should get free meds IMO'

Nice of you to whip out the debit card and cover it for her Stlhd. Oh You mean somone else should pay for it just as long as it is not you. Did you shove her down on your way to the counter. Someone should smack your parents for raising a low rent like you.

It's called empathy, TK. Stlhead was feeling empathy. Actually a fairly common emotion. Not among neocons of course.

Tell the old lady to take two empathy's with a glass of water and she will feel good in the AM. What a dolt.

"The poor old lady has seen the price of her meds double and triple since Bush took office. But hey, drug company profits and CEO pay is astronomic."

Prove it.

One of the wierder things TK's hero put in the new medicare drug bill was a provision forbidding the government to negotiate any agreement with drug companies to lower drug prices.

Add to that the fact that you must sign up for an insurance company plan to receive benefits, and it's clear the whole dam thing was designed to be a boondoggle for the drug companies and the insurance companies, not to provide assistance to the elderly.

I wonder how many elderly and disadvantaged persons could recieve a price break if the industry stopped their innapropriate marketing. Why should I "ask my doctor" for any given drug?
Or, take one week's worth of our operating costs in Iraq and re-invest into free medical programs for seniors with need.

TK does not know about the increasing price of medicine/presciption drugs in America because he does not buy any (against the pleading, begging advice of his shrink of course). He needs other people to "prove it" for him as his own observations will not work in this situation.

I know I said to ignore him but I just could not help it... the leftist devil have me do it.

Brand name drugs doubled . How many insurance companies allow you to buy brand name drugs if generic are available? Not medicare not the majors. I am sure the elderly without coverage are do not. The only reason to buy brand name is if the patent is still active and no generics are available. I think we should provide low cost drugs to seniors. With the exception that if they smoked or now smoke are alcoholic or obese they get nothing for conditions stemming from their choice.

You break your leg mountain climbing you get no treatment because it was your choice to engage in risky behavior? Let em all die? How neocon of you. So, if you think neocon you get no mental health treatment because you chose to be insane.

If you want to be a moron and compare healthful activies to destructive activites knock yourself out. I know the name of the first person to climb mount Everest but have no idea who the first person to die from smoking related disease was I wonder why?.

And you'll decide which activities are healthful and covered and which are not right? More neoconism. Visit a country where malaria is a potential, get Malaria, your fault and no treatment so say the neocons. Eat beef and get mad cow? Have a cavity? Did you eat something sweet? no coverage. Hurt in an auto accident? Were you driving a small car? No coverage. Fall off your horse? Shouldn't have been riding in the first place. No coverage. Devlope diabetes? Should have lost that ten pounds. No coverage. Long live the little world of neocons!

Shows how stupid you are. Big difference between smoking, drinking, obesity and any of your silly examples. Go ahead and be obtuse and a fool.

What's the big difference? Or are you just going to keep with the name calling?

Wacky,

Smoking, drinking, obesity and related illness cost the US health care system billions of dollars a year and are destructive personal choices. Now if everyone new that the cows were loaded with mad cow and still ate them then cut them off as well. If cavities related to candy consumption are a problem and killing health care with costs we should look at them.

So if something costs the system money and is a destructive choice it should not be covered? You are brilliant! Who determines destructive personal choices? You?

Which do you weight more heavily? The cost on the system or the destructiveness of choice? Or is it a carefully balanced calculation only the elite few are privy to?

"Who determines destructive personal choices? "

"
Which do you weight more heavily? The cost on the system or the destructiveness of choice"

Actuaries just as they do now with insurance.

If I want to drive a $100k car that does 200 + MPh and I have 20 tickets I will most likely be unisurable. If I smoke 4 packs a day and have a lump on my liver and 5 other symptoms of smoking related illness I cannot buy life insurance.

A sense of right or wrong does not change statistical outcomes and their related costs.

I you want to somke drink/drug or eat yourself to death you should foot the bill.

tk is al qaeda....he is the enemy and enemys shoud be shot not debated with....debates are for americans and people of free countries.......

Prove it.

I did Fishbear. Go try to buy a life insurance or automobile policy and tell them you smoke, are alcholic and morbidly obese. The actuaries will show a much higher risk and you will be declined or pay a very big premium compared to any of the other example dickhead gave.

TK's constant spin. We went from health care coverage to life insurance.

Both insurance programs and both ruled by actuaries cork soaker. Very few differences between the two.

He is avoiding the real answer which is he wants the subjectivity of who gets insured to change to discriminate against those with medical conditions that he determines are drains on our system. He is pretending that actuaries are in control of this so it is not subjective yet he isn't admitting that someone still draws the line of insurable vs uninsurable. He is pretending!!!

"he wants the subjectivity of who gets insured to change to discriminate against"

You call accountability discrimination. Do I think that able bodied people that are capable of working and taking care of their families should be able to suck off the system by having kids indiscriminatly and passing them off on the system? no! Do I think that people that in spite of all the evidence partake in very destructive behaviors and then want society to bear the burden of their decisions? No it's called account ability something the left hates.


"he isn't admitting that someone still draws the line of insurable vs uninsurable."

No different than you do with how you manage your money. You do not allow somone to redistribute your income without your consent to source? You should go into the healthcare insurance business. lets see how long your bleeding heart stay's in business.

Hold everyone accountable to all their choices and we wouldn't need any health care! You get cancer due to breathing asbestos? You should have chose not to breathe.

My point is and has been that under your logic smokers and obesce folks should get no healthcare because they chose to do that or become that way. Well healthy people who end up needing healthcare have made decisions that have gotten them to the point they need healthcare, why not hold them just as accountable and deny them healthcare as well.

99% of all your arguments if taken to their logical conclusion end up the same way. It is like your analogy of saving lives by having everyone stop driving. If I really wanted to save lives I would prevent births. It's moronic logic and you know it yet you continuously use this defeatist approach to your arguments. It's tired and sophomoric. Maybe when you get out as much as you do you should try and take your blinders off and see the real world!

"My point is and has been that under your logic smokers and obesce folks should get no healthcare because they chose to do that or become that way."

I never said that I said they should pay for their own health care. You choose to take it to the extreeme.

"It is like your analogy of saving lives by having everyone stop driving. If I really wanted to save lives I would prevent births. It's moronic logic"

Again you take it to the maximum extreme. Driving is not require to live. Being born is. Your extreme point is moronic squared.

By your logic we should cover drivers that choose to drink and drive and randomly bash anything that they choose.

I have a better example than the above. Lets take your pal H20. He comes on this site and professes to have made his fortune and will retire on the Olypen. Turns out there is a woman with his kid on medicaid. He has the means by his own admission. Why should his child be on medicaid? Now before you go getting all pissy and emotional this is not about his kid its about him. the kid has no means nor control over his situation. The parents do.

First of all you know nothing about H2o or his kid so you are way out on a limb to begin with.

Second of all I have never seen him claim to have made his fortune and retire out on the Olypen unless it was made in jest. With that said you example is not a good one, try again!

I know the full circumstances and yes his child should be on medicaid!

By the way, your attempt to make this an emotional discussion is pathetic. Excusing yourself from it by saying don't get emotional is trite. I see you have learned something from this administration.

There really is no depth you won't sink to...

All of the info I gave was posted by H20 on this site. Answer the question without emotion.

TK, you have children correct? Do you deduct them as dependants on your taxes? If so then you "chose" to have children and are asking the rest of the tax paying public to subsidize them. Why the hypocrisy?

How so Stlhd? show me how well you understand the tax code.

I already answered the question without emotion. You apparently cannot read.

Do those without children have the same deduction? No. You of all people should not be asking others to reimburse you or give you financial breaks based upon personal choices you have made.

"I think it's fair to say that Eric's son is justifiably on medicaid. It would be nearly impossible to get, or pay for, private insurance due to the severity of his illness."

He may and I support it completely for kids and those really in need. Do not get me wrong on this. I also believe that we as a society need to hold people resopnsible. Two separate issues.
We have a family in our church that has what appears to be the same affliction as H20's son. The father works construction. Does odd jobs they live in a small apt. and have made `1000 choices to stay together and make it on their own. He did not leave the mother and go father another child with another women and take resorces away from his previous responsibility.
My Fil's medical bills are close to a million dollars a year. 15 years ago we made some serious decisions as a family that made that easier to deal with today. We could have said the heck with it use medicaid and had a lot of fun.

"TK, prove H20 said he made his fortune and moved to Forks. I think you read wrong, but feel free to find the post and show us how right you are."

He said it right after I started on this site in 2003 you look it up. He addressed it as well just prior to the last election when he accused Grandpa and I of dissing his son.

You are the one making the accusations he said it, you look it up until then you are a lying sack of poop.

"Do those without children have the same deduction? No. You of all people should not be asking others to reimburse you or give you financial breaks based upon personal choices you have made. "

Does not matter we all do not pay at the same tax rate which we would have to for your arguement to be valid. Secondly there are incentives in the tax code to populate the country. To generate more tax payers to the benefit of the aged and infirm on a continued basis. So the tax deductions for children and marriage acutally have the reverse effect of your scenario.

Waiting for proof!

"I think your memory is failing, considering it happened when he was accused of trying to get help in getting a wheelchair for his son."

The archives do not go bak that far.
Grandpa asked him why he was looking for help with the wheelchair when he had claimed to have made his fortune and retired. I beleive in the music business. H20 got all nasty and accused Grandpa and myself of dogging his kid. He then went on to explain that while he had done just as he had said some poor investment decisions changed his plans.

Liar!

Not even pal! Right on the money.

Yeah with no proof as usual!

Archives go back to 1999. Better start looking.

"And, under the circumstances, Eric was on the touchy side and neither grandpa nor TK should have been giving him any grief. As I recall, apologies were in order and they were made."

Smoking more than ciggarettes AM?


Not even close. I told H20 if he could show where I ever mentioned his son I would donate $10k to the charity of his choice. I also offered to help him come up with a source for a van. He never posted on the thread again. Granpa likewise said that he would apologise if he had said anything about his son which he did not. We challeneged the fact that he had said he was retired at a young age to the olypen and asked it that was the case why was he looking for charity. They make vitimins for failing memories but I think it has more to do with just being somone that Cannot Understand Normal Thinking.

Coem to think of it I made the same offer to you on more than one occasion and I have not paid a dime.

Um, TK, there is no deduction for marriage. Until recently you were heavily penalized unless you have children. From a tax perpective there was a disincentive to get married. What were you saying about understanding the tax code?

Sure there is, I can claim my wife as a dependent. Try doing that with a girlfriend.

Stlhd, I have obviously taught you more than your parents so you should start calling me daddy, biotch.

Here is your link Wacky.

http://www.piscatorialpursuits.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/17/4258.html#000024


From H2o: "i retired (at 34 )as head of a business unit that did over a billion in
sales last year.[/b]"

I will wait for your retracftion and apology.

ts take your pal H20. He comes on this site and professes to have made his fortune and will retire on the Olypen

You can look up your arse for an apology until you support with evidence your claim above? Your feeble attempt to support your dumbass comment is to post something that makes no claim of how much he is retiring with. Typical crap we can expect from you!

For someone who reads as much as he claims it has proven a pointless exercise on his part. His reading for comprehension skills leave something to be desired.

There is no need to speak with Eric about this because TK was just trying to be an asshole in the first place. He will not ever be able to support his own post. When TK gets challenged to the point of having to use the mush between his ears his natural instict is to kick into dickhead mode. He look at every punch he can throw below the belt and throws the one he thinks will cause the biggest distraction so he can weasle his way out of another discussion and still "claim" victory.

Here is your entire post TK.
"I have a better example than the above. Lets take your pal H20. He comes on this site and professes to have made his fortune and will retire on the Olypen. Turns out there is a woman with his kid on medicaid. He has the means by his own admission. Why should his child be on medicaid? Now before you go getting all pissy and emotional this is not about his kid its about him. the kid has no means nor control over his situation. The parents do."

I challenge you to support your claim that H2o

"professes to have made his fortune and will retire on the Olypen" and "He has the means by his own admission"

You cannot because both are absolute falsehoods you have made them up, that's called LYING!!

I will give you one apology. I'm sorry your kids have you for a father! God help them!

Wacky,

It is pretty clear and comes from his own hand. "i retired (at 34 )as head of a business unit that did over a billion in
sales last year" How many people do you know that retire as head of billion dollar business units pennyless? Ask 100 people what someones intent is in making such a statement. He said it on more than one thread and any long time member here remembers it. In fact the above link was emailed to me by a lurker on the site that remembered the exchange well. I understand your desire to stick up for your brother but don't embrass yourself anymore with stories and spin.

"Sure there is, I can claim my wife as a dependent. Try doing that with a girlfriend."

I think you mean your wife can claim you.
Which one of you has no earnings?

Well AM when my actions are contrary to my words feel free to call me on it. You cannot at this time so keep making things up. Who is "we" are all your personalities typing when you make this stuff up?

Stlhd tries for the reversal but gets slammed down on the mat hard. Stlhd thanks for showing your prowess with the tax code. You are just about out of things to demonstrate how little you really know.

I am not defending my brother! He is a big boy and can do that for himself.

I am calling you a LIAR. Until you demonstrate where he has said the things you claim you will always be considered a LIAR!

You have posted links to posts he has talked about "retiring" (you conveniently leave out the wink wink emoticon in all of your quotes of said post), not once does he claim to have a fortune or to have made a fortune. YOU decided that is what he was saying but that does not make it WHAT HE SAID!

Perhaps you could have been even more wealthy had you saved the money you spent on college, it was obviously wasted!

In the context of the threads he was boasting that he retired at 34. Good for him. Then when the charitable questions came up he added some information but never retracted his statements. The whole of the satements in their context are very clearly leading someone to the conclusion that he retired at 34 wealthy. Hold him accountable for his statments not someone else. Secondly he chose to do this in a public forum so it is open for free discussion. I think given all of that it is reasonable for someone to question events that transpire after spefic to the intent to give and help. It is separate from the need of his child which is very clear and a real tradgedy without question. I would, and do,hold anyone or any entity to the same standard.

LIAR!

I will not hold him accountable for how you interpret his statements dumbass!

All talk and no fact makes TK...well it makes him TK. Now we can add taxes to the long list of things TK claims to know but in the end proves he hasn't a clue.

Let's not lose sight of why he really brought my brother and his son into this conversation. TK was being challenged on his concept that certain people should not be medically covered because they are a known drain on the system and they chose their poison so to speak. Having demonstrated to him what a slippery slope discriminating against people in such a way is TK had no alternative but to lash out personally at me. To his defence he did not know how personally he was lashing out, I'm sure once he found out he gained even more sick pleasure from it.

The point is, when you pose the way TK does and get called on it your TRUE human behaviors are exposed! Those of you who hadn't already figured out TK's true colors now have even more information to help you figure it out!

http://www.piscatorialpursuits.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/17/4215.html#000017
I recently ran into some money myself....

My theory, as usual (didn't let the size of my pile affect my decision making processes) when spending my money on stuff is to buy stuff used...let somebody else take care of the nasty depreciation. When I say 'stuff' I mean of course, cars, trucks and boats...the big stuff.

I looked at it like this......when every thing comes crashing down around me, can I sell what I bought for what I paid for it with relative ease? It helps that I am one stingy *******.....I just don't pull the trigger unless I am pretty sure what I am getting into.

So far, my auto/truck investments look good on paper....just need to start selling some of these rigs off! With any luck at all I'll be doing better than the stock market as soon as I can start liquidating some vehicles.


http://www.piscatorialpursuits.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/17/4294.html#000000

Eric

A personal subject should have been left personal. I meant what I said to you in private and apologize for going over the line in public if that is what I did.

Maybe you should explain your comments in the context of you trying to establish credibility for yourself by bragging about what sounded like being financially successful. On another thread discussing what to spend a windfall on you made a comment about coming into some money yourself.

Sorry if I took it wrong but it sure sounded like you were asking others to pay for something that you could afford yourself. I am all for supporting a worthy cause but feel violated if it appears that I was scammed.

Again, if I got this wrong I apologize in public.




http://www.piscatorialpursuits.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/16/4434.html#000000

Thanks for the heads up Rich...I'd say I'm a fair judge of character, I shouldn't have any problems in that respect

As far as what I am going to do for work goes...

My official status right now is 'retired'. I don't think I'm ready to announce my plans just yet...also not sure if that's such a good idea, and NO, not because I would be doing something illegal.

I will be fishing an awful damn lot this Winter/Spring though, that I can guarantee you....

Running into money in your mind means making his fortune?

You are brilliant!

Still waiting for his claims of having made his fortune!!!!!!!!

Keep trying LIAR!

My arguement is very supportable. The basis being why should we pay for peoples destructive behaviors and personal decisions? It takes momney away from the truely needy. We help support a lady in our church. She has every illness somone can come up with. She has not been able to work for the past 15 years. She is a Navy vetran on top of it all. She lives on every kind of aid the state and feds can provide. The care she gets is 3rd rate at best and she has to schedule it 6 months in advance. Why because the system is packed with smokers, booze and drug addicts and the obese.

Crawdad back to Portland Wacky you have been proven wrong. Now you could adopt AM's slant that he was just pulling my leg.

You have proven ****! Must I repost your claim of what he said? You are a LIAR and are now trying to act like you said something different!

"He comes on this site and professes to have made his fortune and will retire on the Olypen"

There ya go stupid! Now how did you prove he professed to "have made his fortune"?

"The basis being why should we pay for peoples destructive behaviors and personal decisions?"

Supportable if you support discrimination! Who draws the lines of destructive and personal decisions? You? And don't pretend like actuaries do that, someone still defines their curve!

Coal Miners with Lung cancer shouldn't be covered!

Military personnel active/veteran exposed to low level radiation shouldnt be covered.

Why should we have to pay for their personal choices? They new the risks!

"i retired (at 34 )as head of a business unit that did over a billion in
sales last year.[/b]"

I wonder if he teaches his kids how to be a scumbag like this? I hope not for their sake!

With all of your passage quoting and biblical interpreting, you ended up with a warped sense of Christian behavior!

Keeping looking for bunny trails to run down.

"i retired (at 34 )as head of a business unit that did over a billion in
sales last year.[/b]"

Wow check her out she takes two completely unrelated posts and draws some twisted conclusions. Then at the end she tries to incite a monkey hump post. What a suprise.

Here is a conclusion for you. You all but admitted that my recollection was in fact what transpired by spinning it that H20 said was a hoax that would somehow get to me.

And another one is that this thread is a case study of how lefty does not like to be held accountable. It also goes a long ways towards proving that it runs in families as well.

BTW insurance in and of itself is discriminatory. It discriminates based on the risk tolerance of the provider ,state and federal laws.

"And another one is that this thread is a case study of how lefty does not like to be held accountable. It also goes a long ways towards proving that it runs in families as well."

It seems to me the only one not holding themselves accountable is you for making claims that someone professed something that is absolutely NOT what they have EVER professed.

Hypocrite!

Geez smoke another one and see if you can get any more dizzy.


Wacky,

Hipptity hop !

"i retired (at 34 )as head of a business unit that did over a billion in
sales last year.[/b]"

you should wear big read shoes and a big red rubber nose if you insist on being a clown.

Geez smoke another one and see if you can get any more dizzy.


Wacky,

Hipptity hop !

"i retired (at 34 )as head of a business unit that did over a billion in
sales last year.[/b]"

you should wear big read shoes and a big red rubber nose if you insist on being a clown.

I change my mind. Feel free to throw the final insult, it suits you better!

Quiting while fiening victory seems to be a family trait also.

"i retired (at 34 )as head of a business unit that did over a billion in
sales last year.[/b]"

Good one!

Pretending we are competing is dillusional.

Here is the last insult.

"i retired (at 34 )as head of a business unit that did over a billion in
sales last year.[/b]"

If you hace any poo, now is the time to throw it!