Something a little more substantive then the simple 'do we stay or do we go' argument. But not much more substantive.

Vince,

Wow! I voted the straight "no" ticket! I expect we should maintain a long term presence in Iraq, but it's speculative and way too uncertain as to how that fits the U.S.' "permanent" national interest, as well as how long the Iraqi gov't. (assuming there is and will continue to be one) wants us there.

Withdrawing under a fixed timetable is generally a bad idea in that it limits our options, just in case we need options, and given the volitility of the region, options are generally a good thing to have.

I strongly doubt the Prez' capability to make any intelligent determination about pretty much anything. You didn't give me any room for analysis on this one. How about we let someone or someones capable of making determinations handle this one?

The U.S. made this mess, is responsible for it, and should take full responsibility for restoring as best a sense of order as might be possible in this country, with its tri-parte ethnicity, and secular and religious wacko demographics.

Sincerely,

Salmo g.

Salmo,

Who would you let make the determination on when to withdraw? If its not the Prez, then it would have to be Congress.

I disagree with you, Salmo. Bush's War is little more than a battle in a war that can never be won. We stepped in it, yes, but sticking around to atempt to sweep it under the carpet won't make our presence over there any more palletable.

The military war in Iraq? We won that ages ago.

Now we're occupying their country and getting creamed in the process.

Tragic, we win the battles and lose the young men. Then we lose the peace at the political level. We spend too much time agonizing about being the good guys and then moan cause nobody loves us. Gratitude is no substitute for RESPECT. And how do you get respect. Don't speak with forked tongue and kick the necessary butt now and then. It also helps to lead from the front by being a good example.

As long as Iraq's celebrate US forces killing insurgents, like they did the other day, we should stay.

Vince,

Ordinarily I'd favor the collective wisdom of Congress, but that body wasn't so wise when it approved Bush's invasion. So, I'm OK with a decision to leave by Congress, or the gov't of Iraq, whichever comes soonest. And by continuing military presence, I'm not thinking of a force at the present troop level. I see it being scaled back in the coming couple years, but lasting who knows how long.

Sol,

I don't know what part you disagree with. I also believe that Bush has declared a war (war on terra') that cannot be won. That's the beauty of it, from a political perspective. It's given him free reign to act like a megalomaniac these past several years.

If we leave immediately we lose; if we stay we lose. Bush's war has created a lose:lose proposition for the U.S., and that is my top reason for disgust with the little d!ckhead. But since the U.S. created this instability in Iraq, I think we are duty-bound to give it the good ole college try to re-establish some stability there, if it's at all feasible.

Aunty,

Bush said he's a war prez, not a peace prez. I guess we shouldn't expect him to be able to win the peace, let alone keep it.

Sard,

First and foremost, to be respected, one needs to behave respectably. That's a foreign concept to Bush, so that was lost at the outset. Honesty is another way to gain and retain respect. Leading from the front with exemplary behavior also lends toward being respected. Are we seeing a pattern here why Bush isn't respected by critical thinkers?

Kicking butt never earned anyone respect. I think you have confused fear with respect. Doling out a good butt-kicking may make others fear you, but only an idiot would respect you for it. Then again, being feared, for the right reasons, especially for a nation, is not a bad thing, but it does not supplant respect.

Broodbuster,

It's good to see Iraqis celebrate events that parallel our interests. However, I think our yardstick of when to leave and under what circumstances should be more sophisticated than celebrating the assination of an Al Qaeda leader.

I'm pleased to note that my straight ticket vote - for the first time ever - continues to maintain a lead in the poll.

Sincerely,

Salmo g.

There are occasions when the differences between respect and fear are not obvious. Viva.

"Kicking butt never earned anyone respect"

Better think about that.

It depends entirely on whose respect you are talking about. Generally, one is not interested in the least in getting respect from the "kickee".
But there is/can be/should be respect garnered for a person who is willing to put it on the line when the need arises. Note I said WHEN the need arises. The question becomes how much analysis is necessary before a need to act. It seems we live in a time of do nothing but think about it.

I voted no all the way.But felt like it would have been a better poll if more options were available.

Re-deploy.
We are not helping the situation. Occupation is never a solution to any problem. Murtha nailed it the other day with his speach on the floor. The fixed time table in NOW.
Papelbon,
cds