Having "walked the walk", I've earned the right to "talk the talk".
Two of our brave young warriors have been found DOA and first reports say they were TORTURED before being killed!!
Yet, we have our own young American warriors imprisoned and dishonorably discharged for abusing some POWs and other young American warriors awaiting trial for killing apparently, innocent Iraqi civilians.
Please Lord grant me 3 wishes.......
1. Withdrawl all our troops from Iraq and Afghanistan immediately.
2. Impeach President George W Bush for beginning a senseless war in Iraq and causing over 2500 soldiers to lose their lives.
3. Grant amnisty to all American soldiers who have broken under the pressure of combat and may have performed regretful acts of violence upon innocent persons.
Sky Soldier

i agree. it is sad to say the least.

my buddy just got a dishonorable discharge for getting in a fist fight with an iraqi who had punched him in the face. my buddy faught back in self defence. at least he didnt just shoot the guy.

I agree Sky Soldier. One of the bad parts is that we can't even take the "torture is wrong" high ground. We lost that long ago (and we have the photos to prove it).

This war is based on lies and not "mistakes". Those at the top knew enough to know what they were saying wasn't true.

If you think that $300 Billion dollars is a lot, wait until we spend the next 50 years paying for mental health treatment of the 1/3 of soldiers that are coming back mentally f'ed up. Not to mention the future "going postal" events we have yet to see.

Don't believe politicians' stories of progress. It is only getting worse. There is a reason our guys patrol in convoys now and not foot patrols.

Read, read, read. And not the main stream media.

Sky Soldier:

That SHOULD make us mad...that is why they did it.

As for the idea of "torture", please consult your history book and review what we (USA) did to Japan and Dresden during WW II. We incinerated tens of thousands..mostly civilians.

WAR is just that, war. It is never "civil", nor should it be. If two countries hate each other enough to give up their young men (and now women) in battle, then the "rules" don't really count.

IMO, bring ALL our boys and girls HOME, then send in the BUFF's and make that region GLASS. Then, once the ground is habitable again, start that country over with the good folks from that part of the world that want to make something of their lives.

Mike

Is war bad---Yes. But then again there are lots of things to make right. Check out this thread that I posted a couple of weeks ago and put these deaths up against the 2500 killed in Iraq and tell me where the outrage is.

It is a nauseating thing what happened to those soldiers. I can't imagine the burden on the souls of their families.
I am still torn on what would constitute the right thing when it comes to dealing with soldiers who commit war crimes. Because if you accept the quote below as the 'right thing'

Wouldn't the moral equivalent be something like;

"Grant amnesty to all Iraqi insurgents who have broken under the pressure of occupation and may have performed regretful acts of violence upon captive American soldiers."


I wouldn't let the parties that were responsible for killing captive American soldiers go free. In fact I'd volunteer to put the bullet in those aholes skulls if I knew without a doubt they did it. But the logical part of me says if we hold 'savages' to those standards shouldn't we hold our own to those same codes of conduct?

And yet they come from the same soil, speak the same tongue, and have dreams that could be my own. Its hard not to want to believe that any crimes committed did not, or could not have happened. No, not by our boys. Please Lord let it not be true.


JG,

The outrage occurs nightly at every ER that victims of a drunk driver, as well as the drunk driver are brought. The first impulse is ***** slap the offender sober, so he can realize what he has done.
The hard part comes when a victims mother is brought in to the ED following the ambulance. Its hard not to hear them coming. And some of those cries, they will stick inside you, and echo forever.

Once you have heard a primal scream you will never forget it. Never. War is hell, but if you don't take it to their doorstep it will come to yours.

How much torture was there on 911? How quickly forgotten, eh?

How many Iraqi's were involved in 911?? How quickly forgotten eh?

It was this type of appeal to emotion that got us into Iraq. Testosterone is a great hormone. I'm happy to make it. But it can completely cloud the mind. I live in a nation that is experiencing 'rhoid rage. It doesn't matter who wronged us, it just matters who is in arms reach.
So now a shadowy group of men from Texas has us all huffing and puffing like the big bad wolf, blowing our way into what turns out to be a s&*thouse. Not even the right s&^thouse. Maybe just a tiny bit less chest thumping and a little bit more thinking would have saved us from being up to our neck in crap.

Slab, thanks for sharing your viewpoint. Its always good to have some dissenting viewpoints.

Whether I agree or not with the majority here won't make my life better. I am responsible for my decisions and when I'm gone I don't want to look back with very many, "I wish I would have acted, instead of let someone else take the chances." I told a guy at work a small while ago that I guessed there were people who fight and people who let them. He is a runner from adversity. A very nice fella and I consider him a good friend, but he also is a "I'm right behind you" type. My hopes and prayers are with our fighting men and women, make no mistake, but the goofballs that think joining the Armed Forces is an unobligatory investment of time are only misguided opportunists.

I would make the very bold (actually simplistic) observation that a huge, huge majority of service men and women support the idea that freedom is for everyone, not just those lucky enough to have been born into it in a time when the price has been very very cheap.

Thanks for the comment, VHawk. For the record, whether we are on the opposite site of the bantering board or not, I am very glad to know there are people around who do what you do. I have no doubts that it is very difficult at times. Thanks to you and I certainly hope to run into you on the water sometime.