#179574 - 12/29/02 03:06 AM
Punch Cards--- Do You Or Dont You??
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Fry
Registered: 11/11/02
Posts: 27
Loc: Seattle
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I have for years heard the debate as to will it benefit the angler/ or be detrimental to the angler to honestly and completely fill in their punch card and send it in on time as required. Ive heard that by punching all fish caught, if your a successful angler that it would/could give WDFW the idea that the sport fisherman are doing to well and thus more allocation would be given to treaty and non treaty commercial fisherman.
And the flipside seems to be, that all the data that comes from the punch cards, provides valuable data that is important to manage our fisheries. How much info that is obtained from those cards is actually true and accurate??? It is my feeling that there are many fisherman who dont give a sh-- about the data they provide and lots more who dont even turn their cards in. Whats your thoughts??
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If God Gave Me Just One Wish My Wish Would Be To Always Fish.....
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#179575 - 12/29/02 03:14 AM
Re: Punch Cards--- Do You Or Dont You??
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Repeat Spawner
Registered: 03/06/99
Posts: 1273
Loc: Western Washington
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if the fish doesnt get punched...you're a poacher, plain and simple!
...i have on occasion forgotten my punchard...the fish was always punched by someone though.
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Ryan S. Petzold aka Sparkey and/or Special
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#179576 - 12/29/02 03:44 AM
Re: Punch Cards--- Do You Or Dont You??
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Returning Adult
Registered: 03/12/01
Posts: 440
Loc: Puyallup, WA
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if the fish doesnt get punched...you're a poacher, plain and simple!
...i have on occasion forgotten my punchard...the fish was always punched by someone though. Technically having someone else punch it is just as illegal as not recording it. Catching someone else's limit. Not supposed to do it unless it's for a handicapped person with a special license. And your buddy was illegal as well. "You may not: Possess another person's game fish unles it is accompanied by a statement showing the name, address, license, and tag number, date, county and area it was taken and the signature of the angler who harvested it" But then you wouldn't have signed it since it would have been ILLEGAL for you to harvest it now wouldn't it? Not that I haven't bent the rules myself, just tired of seeing people jumping all over someone like above when they themselves are just as guilty. It's all that "holier than thou" attitude again I guess.
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#179577 - 12/29/02 03:59 AM
Re: Punch Cards--- Do You Or Dont You??
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Repeat Spawner
Registered: 03/06/99
Posts: 1273
Loc: Western Washington
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sinker- I know it is just illegal...you bonk a hatchery fish and go to punch it, yet you left your card in your car...what do you do??
Better the fish get recorded then not at all...just being honest!
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Ryan S. Petzold aka Sparkey and/or Special
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#179578 - 12/29/02 07:15 AM
Re: Punch Cards--- Do You Or Dont You??
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Juvenille at Sea
Registered: 01/21/02
Posts: 170
Loc: lacey, Wa.
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Just my opinion
I punch my fish because its the law and I fear the consequinces and fines if you were to get caught. However
I think its a waste of time. Valuable information?? I see Indians net hundreds of fish, gut them for eggs and throw the fish back into the river. These fish do not get recorded.
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#179579 - 12/29/02 11:14 AM
Re: Punch Cards--- Do You Or Dont You??
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River Nutrients
Registered: 05/06/01
Posts: 2991
Loc: Nisqually
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According to the REGS, you are REQUIRED TO: Cooperate with data collection or other sampling of food fish, game fish, shellfish or seaweed upon request of Department of Fish and Wildlife personnel. This includes relinquishing any part of a salmon, steelhead, or other species of fish containing coded-wire tags.
Stop at mandatory check stations established by the Department of Fish and Wildlife. Show fish, shellfish, and seaweed in your possession and required licenses, catch record cards, and gear being used upon request of a Fish and Wildlife officer.
Fill out your Catch Record Card immediately upon retaining salmon, steelhead, halibut, sturgeon. For Dungeness crab, fill out immediately when fishing from a boat or dock or upon returning to shore when wading or diving.
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Carl C.
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#179580 - 12/29/02 03:33 PM
Re: Punch Cards--- Do You Or Dont You??
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Returning Adult
Registered: 01/01/02
Posts: 329
Loc: offut lake/lacey
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always punch all my fish...i seem to get checked by the gamers more than most people, probably more than 10 times this year...
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#179581 - 12/29/02 07:38 PM
Re: Punch Cards--- Do You Or Dont You??
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Returning Adult
Registered: 11/21/01
Posts: 391
Loc: Tacoma
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Would be nice to hear from the WDFW about what they actually do with the returned(and unreturned) cards. Do they actually count and record the information? How do they account for the unreturned cards? It is hard to understand the value of the catch card data without knowing what they are doing now.
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#179583 - 12/29/02 08:05 PM
Re: Punch Cards--- Do You Or Dont You??
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Juvenille at Sea
Registered: 11/25/02
Posts: 228
Loc: Port Townsend, WA
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#179585 - 12/29/02 10:15 PM
Re: Punch Cards--- Do You Or Dont You??
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Returning Adult
Registered: 09/30/02
Posts: 424
Loc: Sequim
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When I got my license last year the guy that issued my license said that beggining this year they will be required to ask for the previous years punch card. If one was issued last year, and you do not provide the previous years card upon request then they won't be able to issue you another punch card. He said this was all made possible by the computerized processing system.
I cannot gurantee the validity of this but this is what I was told. Source: Nothern Sales
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Mark Strand aka - TC
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#179586 - 12/29/02 10:53 PM
Re: Punch Cards--- Do You Or Dont You??
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Dick Nipples
Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 28170
Loc: Seattle, Washington USA
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Sorry I don't have the source handy, due to being several years ago, but STS ran a story to the effect that a few smaller streams in N. California were closed due to the fact that no one had caught many fish in them for years.
The fact of the matter was, however, that the locals who fished these semi-zippers weren't punching their cards. They made a big stink when the rivers were closed, which was when they discovered that their failure to punch cards contributed to the closure.
Besides, it's the law. The information may not be all that useful so far as tabulating runs goes, but it certainly keeps people from gathering both a morning and afternoon limit.
Fish on...
Todd.
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Team Flying Super Ditch Pickle
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#179587 - 12/29/02 10:56 PM
Re: Punch Cards--- Do You Or Dont You??
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River Nutrients
Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 6830
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Twice when I forgot to return my punchcard I have received a letter in the mail from WDFW asking for an accurate count. I thought everyone received one if they didn't return their card but I guess not?
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"You learn more from losing than you do from winning." Lou Pinella
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#179588 - 12/30/02 11:49 AM
Re: Punch Cards--- Do You Or Dont You??
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The Chosen One
Registered: 02/09/00
Posts: 14486
Loc: Tuleville
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I always punch my fish and turn in my card. Many years ago I didn't punch a fish..and that was because I lost my pen. Got a $105 ticket for that mistake. Fortunately, the judge was a close friend of the family, so my fine got reduced down to $5!
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Tule King Paker
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#179590 - 12/30/02 12:03 PM
Re: Punch Cards--- Do You Or Dont You??
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Repeat Spawner
Registered: 10/08/01
Posts: 1155
Loc: Out there, somewhere
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How would we feel if the WDFW provided false statistics to us? Or, more specifically, how about if they lied to us about statistics in order to improve their position?
Would we feel that that was dishonest, and less than we would expect of a good citizen?
I realize that there are those that feel that the WDFW already lies, and therefore any dishonesty we give them is deserved. I teach my kids that two wrongs don't make a right.
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Hm-m-m-m-m
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#179591 - 12/30/02 01:40 PM
Re: Punch Cards--- Do You Or Dont You??
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River Nutrients
Registered: 05/27/00
Posts: 2558
Loc: Stumpy Acres
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Sparkey- If you don't punch your a poacher yet you can fish without it even with you and punch on someone elses card.. I'd say it's the same you are fishing without a liecense with you your a poacher too!!PLAIN AND SIMPLE!!!
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If ya can't run with the big dogs stay on the porch!
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#179592 - 12/30/02 02:56 PM
Re: Punch Cards--- Do You Or Dont You??
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River Nutrients
Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 6830
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Forgetting to return your card by the date specified doesn't make you a poacher in my book. In 30+ years of fishing you are bound to forget at least once especially when they keep changing the dates. It should be required in order to purchase a new one but most License agents will not take your old punch card. Now that it's one card it is easier to keep track.
"How would we feel if the WDFW provided false statistics to us? Or, more specifically, how about if they lied to us about statistics in order to improve their position?" Actually, they were providing false/flawed data for years and finally admitted so several years ago.
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"You learn more from losing than you do from winning." Lou Pinella
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#179593 - 12/30/02 05:17 PM
Re: Punch Cards--- Do You Or Dont You??
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Punchcards are nothing more than an insurance policy against the damn game Nazis. I never punch fish unless I have to and I never turn in my card. I give those government workers enough of my money already, I'm not about to help them out in any way. The Fisheries Dept. is as inefficient as any other government agency. There is no accountability and the waste is tremendous. I'm sick of those fools catering to whatever the Indians want. Screw the Indians, if they can't live in our society, then they can head to a third world country and live in their damn teepees until kingdom come!
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#179594 - 12/30/02 10:41 PM
Re: Punch Cards--- Do You Or Dont You??
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Fry
Registered: 11/19/01
Posts: 27
Loc: Bremerton Wa
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besides it being the law here is another good reason to send in the punch card. Look at where you live and where some of the rivers you catch fish are. These show the State that sport fisherman are spending money on gas, food and lodging to get your fish. Money which helps other people have jobs and tax revenue for the state. I will give all the data I can to this poorly run democratic ruled state just to justify money coming back to the fish and wildlife department. If you don't send in your card, well don't ***** when the fish are gone, you had a part in it.
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#179595 - 12/30/02 10:46 PM
Re: Punch Cards--- Do You Or Dont You??
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Returning Adult
Registered: 09/12/01
Posts: 351
Loc: yelm, wa
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I have to echo Silver Hilton. The dept needs the info to do their best (even if we feel it is inadequate). Sparky, you know you are WRONG by having someone else punch your fish, and if you are a guide, wanna keep your license??
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Any day spent fishing does NOT count against one's life expectancy!! Cyberfishing from Korea sux!!
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#179596 - 12/30/02 10:51 PM
Re: Punch Cards--- Do You Or Dont You??
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Repeat Spawner
Registered: 03/06/99
Posts: 1273
Loc: Western Washington
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Originally posted by fish4steel: Sparky, you know you are WRONG by having someone else punch your fish, and if you are a guide, wanna keep your license?? I know I am wrong...I guess I should have never admitted it...just felt hypoctritical about *****ing about people not punching fish when I have turned around and did the same (on total accident though)...
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Ryan S. Petzold aka Sparkey and/or Special
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#179598 - 12/31/02 09:08 AM
Re: Punch Cards--- Do You Or Dont You??
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River Nutrients
Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 6830
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I think the definition of a poacher is being stretched a bit here and I sure hope nobody starts calling me one without leaving their name and address.
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"You learn more from losing than you do from winning." Lou Pinella
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#179599 - 12/31/02 01:29 PM
Re: Punch Cards--- Do You Or Dont You??
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Dick Nipples
Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 28170
Loc: Seattle, Washington USA
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Wow, Luke, it looks like you've put an awful lot of thought into your last post.
"Punchcards are nothing more than an insurance policy against the damn game Nazis."
You've gotta be kidding! Game wardens do a tough job, with way too little manpower and resources to do it as well as it deserves to be done, for a lot less money than anyone deserves for doing a job as tough as theirs.
Why do they do it? Because they care about the resource. The only people who have a problem with game wardens in general (problems with individuals at specific times have nothing to do with game wardens) are people who break the law.
Why would you dislike wardens if you weren't breaking any laws?
" I never punch fish unless I have to and I never turn in my card."
Why would you have to?
" I give those government workers enough of my money already, I'm not about to help them out in any way. The Fisheries Dept. is as inefficient as any other government agency. There is no accountability and the waste is tremendous. "
I'd recommend that you stop paying taxes, car tabs and registration, property taxes, and B&O taxes for the high end think tank that you obviously own and operate. If you won't give those clowns at DFW your hard earned cash, why give it to those other "inefficient" government agencies.
Make especially sure that you don't let any of your hard earned cash make it to the Dept. of Education...they're obviously REALLY inefficient.
"I'm sick of those fools catering to whatever the Indians want. Screw the Indians, if they can't live in our society, then they can head to a third world country and live in their damn teepees until kingdom come!"
I guess I didn't know it, but Sen. Thurmond must now be spending his out-of-session time in Toutle. That last couple of sentences are so ignorant and stupid that they speak for themselves.
Backward ignoramuses like you are the reason that most of the problems we face as a society exist. I'm sure you've never felt that you ever owed anyone anything...
Fish on...
Todd
P.S. I apologize to all, but Luke, for the harsh tone of this post. You all know that I do at times respond strongly, but I don't usually reduce it down to calling people ignoramuses or calling their comments stupid. I just couldn't help myself this time...
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Team Flying Super Ditch Pickle
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#179600 - 01/01/03 09:01 AM
Re: Punch Cards--- Do You Or Dont You??
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Juvenille at Sea
Registered: 11/30/00
Posts: 128
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
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Most of you are dead wrong! The worst thing you can do is return a blank card. The WDFW uses the catch information to see if we can or are taking our allotted fish. An example, on the Quinalt river, sports allottment has been reduced because the catch data showed that sportsfishermen were not capable of taking their share, so who got more and who got less? The tribe picked up the unused sportsmens fish, called "foregone opportunity", means if we dont' use it, we lose it. I am a catch and release fisherman, but I now know that I will be doing my part by bonking fish that are legal and filling my card. So mark your cards, bonk your hatchery fish, and return them, only way we can keep our pathetic numbers in the long haul.
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Flyfishing, the gentler art of ripping lips.
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#179601 - 01/01/03 11:59 AM
Re: Punch Cards--- Do You Or Dont You??
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Returning Adult
Registered: 10/25/00
Posts: 327
Loc: OlyWa
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I was under the impression that if you did not send in your card it was considered "full" and counted in "our" allotment. Some one mentioned that not sending it it equals 5 fish.
Anyone have hard facts on this?
I send mine in, but would like to know how to explain this to others.
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"Just Say No To Sovereign Nations!"
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#179604 - 01/01/03 09:46 PM
Re: Punch Cards--- Do You Or Dont You??
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Fry
Registered: 01/04/01
Posts: 20
Loc: Puget Sound
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Sparkey,
You said "...I know it is just illegal...you bonk a hatchery fish and go to punch it, yet you left your card in your car...what do you do??..."
Just my unsolicited opinion, but I believe you should:
1. Immediately stop fishing.
2. Go to your car and punch your tag.
I doubt if you encountered an enforcement officer on your way back to the car and he/she asked to see your punch card that you would be ticketed when you explain the circumstances (forgot the punch card in the car and going back to make it right.) I believe this is far more honest, and certainly more ethical, than "...Better the fish get recorded then not at all..."
As others have alluded, exacerbating the situation by breaking even morel regs and dragging others into your predicament probably won't win much sympathy from that same enforcement officer.
I can't believe you went on the public record with "...I know it is just illegal..."
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#179605 - 01/01/03 09:47 PM
Re: Punch Cards--- Do You Or Dont You??
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Three Time Spawner
Registered: 06/14/00
Posts: 1866
Loc: Toledo, Washington
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Cowlitzfisherman
Is the taste of the bait worth the sting of the hook????
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#179607 - 01/04/03 12:53 PM
Re: Punch Cards--- Do You Or Dont You??
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Spawner
Registered: 06/24/01
Posts: 698
Loc: Toledo Wa
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Chukarnut. This subject was brought up a long time ago. I'm still throwing in my 2 cents worth though. I believe it is very wide spread,from what I have seen. Especially on the Cow and rivers like that where,there have been some huge runs of silvers the past few years.I guess one way to look at it is that they still get recorded. Although usually on the bank after the fishings done. I personally don't care how many fish a person takes out of some of those hatchery runs.They are there to harvest,and usually more than enough to go around. I've personally seen a lot of guides hand off poles,give clients fish,and keep clients eggs. One of the reasons they hand off poles is for the benefit of the client.Some of them dont know a thing about fishing and thats the only way they will know what its like ti land a fish.So they are doing a service to their clients. I alos believe,from what I have observed ,that when the guide sets the boat up on a drift,he is in the best position to catch fish.First because he is the first person through the hole,second because he is in the best position for the drift. I think if your with a guide, your best bet is to get the spot in the rear of the boat closest to the guide.Thats where the next most fish will be caught.And it will taper off from there to the front of the boat. I know some of the things I mentioned are illegal,but accepted practice.and most people just don't really care. I'm sure you'll hear some more heated opinions on this.Probably some directed at me.But thats what these boards are all about,right
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#179608 - 01/04/03 01:32 PM
Re: Punch Cards--- Do You Or Dont You??
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Parr
Registered: 12/07/02
Posts: 40
Loc: Kirkland Wa.
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HntnFsh,
You just brought up another issue of illegalities, and that is the one of punching the fish, after getting to the bank. According to what I read in the regulations, you have to punch before continueing fishing.
Now where does one draw the line when breaking the law? How much difference is there between taking over the limit, fishing without a license, catching fish for other people, not punching the fish before the next cast, etc, etc. Can one justifie breaking the rules if it benefits the breaker?
Just some thought, Chukarnut
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#179609 - 01/05/03 12:48 AM
Re: Punch Cards--- Do You Or Dont You??
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Three Time Spawner
Registered: 12/24/01
Posts: 1972
Loc: Kingston, WA
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Just wondering if there might be a consensus here on whether you should repair your ball mark if you crater the green? Like what if you left your divot tool in the car or you were in a hurry to get your round in? Isn't that why they have greenskeepers anyway? And the fees, they're simply outrageous! I know it'll be my silent form of protest. Nobody will ever accuse me of being lazy.
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Matt. 8:27 The men were amazed and asked, “What kind of man is this? Even the winds and the waves obey him!”
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#179610 - 01/05/03 01:03 AM
Re: Punch Cards--- Do You Or Dont You??
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Repeat Spawner
Registered: 10/08/01
Posts: 1155
Loc: Out there, somewhere
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Mooch, I like the way you think. What's your handicap?
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Hm-m-m-m-m
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#179611 - 01/05/03 09:23 AM
Re: Punch Cards--- Do You Or Dont You??
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Juvenille at Sea
Registered: 01/21/02
Posts: 170
Loc: lacey, Wa.
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Punch cards are valuable Information?? To whom. Over the past 10 years I have realized that the Sportsfisherman are on the bottom of the food chain when it comes to fish allotments in this state: Unless we unite and fund some political politicians campaign we will not be heard. Several years ago a GREAT proposition was voted down, BAN ALL NETS.
a. I have seen many times over the years that the Dept of Fisheries would put out bogus numbers of expected returns of salmon allowing the Commericals to over harvest just to turn around and slap emergency closures to us river fisherman.
b. Last weekend 7 rivers up North were closed because of poor returns. I havent turned in my punch card yet. How is my punch card going to help this?
c. Governor Locke just cut the budget for hatcheries. Several hatcheries have already been closed with many more targeted!
d. Look closely to the Cowlitz. Tacoma Power had a 30 year contract that required renegotiating this year. They want to decrease there PROMISED responsibility of managing the hatcheries. They want to save MONEY by reducing the amount of smolts!!!
The fish in this state are regulated by special interest groups. Not the importance of managing fish and habitat. Timber, Dams, Commercials and Indians.
Unless we adopt a FISH FIRST like Alaska does, the dismal returns now will be gone in a few years. Talk to the Old timers how fishing use to be years ago.
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#179612 - 01/05/03 01:40 PM
Re: Punch Cards--- Do You Or Dont You??
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Three Time Spawner
Registered: 06/14/00
Posts: 1866
Loc: Toledo, Washington
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Fishaddict Right on!!! Cowlitzfisherman
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Cowlitzfisherman
Is the taste of the bait worth the sting of the hook????
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#179616 - 01/06/03 02:01 AM
Re: Punch Cards--- Do You Or Dont You??
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Three Time Spawner
Registered: 12/24/01
Posts: 1972
Loc: Kingston, WA
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My game.
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Matt. 8:27 The men were amazed and asked, “What kind of man is this? Even the winds and the waves obey him!”
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