I had to post this because another post was getting off topic.

this is what set me off it was posted by stlhdh2o:

"Yes...because 'common sense' dictates that many more fish would be affected by hooking mortality (something we CAN control) than would be affected by seal or seal lion predation (something OUTSIDE our control)."

my response:

Nothin a chunk of lead cant "control" I wish people would get off this hooking mortality kick. It hasnt sounded like many fish are being hooked this year anyways. "Common sense" dictates that alot more fish are going be killed in nets. Ban the nets! Too many anti- sportfishermen here, (Bunny huggers) Is this piscatorialpursuits.com or peta.com Too many seals and not enough predaters anymore. Thank God, there is seal eating orca pods in the canal again, hope they dont bust a gut chowin down on them damn seals and sea lions.

Jerry garcias response:

"Why is it that some people want others to change their ways , but they want to continue doing things the way they have always done it. You have to do all you can do to minimize your own effect on the resource."

my response

"Why is it so hard for some people to realize that the reason we went from rivers with fish so thick you could not walk acrossed them without stepping on them, to rivers that are basically barren. Is not because of hooking mortality, not just because of sportsfishermen! Its a combonation and until all numbers are correctly entered the lock will not open! Its not going to help if just we stop fishing! not one bit! sure another fishy will live another day ooooooooh, what happens to that fish later. do the indians get it or the commercials or the japanese or the russians or the mackeral."

4salt response:

"That's right Micro, we (sportfishermen, and for the majority of them that I've seen, I use that term VERY loosely) didn't cause the problem, so (to borrow vernacular from our buddy superfly) [Bleeeeep!] it! I'm gonna keep doin' what I been doin'! Long as them indians and commercials and loggers and seals... blah blah blah keep killin' the runs I'm gonna git mine no matter what!

Have you ever heard the expression: "If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem...""

My response :

"yes I guess you can make it sound like I am like that but I am not. I just want to spend my time on what will actually work."

I am a fisherman that doesnt do to much else besides work and fish.

All to often I see sportmen and women blaming each other for the decline of the fish population.

My main point in arguing against hooking mortality, closures, special regulations,and more regulations is that we are the bottom of the chain. Have you noticed that the more we pay for licenses and the more regulation we get put on us the worse the fishing gets? so what good is it to put more regulation on us? It doesnt seem to me to be working! are fishing is still getting worse.

It just seems to me that we all should be fighting to get rid of the nets thats are a #1 problem in this state! Not joe blow using barbed hooks or bait or joe smoe using 5/0 treble hooks.

Is it that most people feel getting rid of nets is unobtainable so they they go for more clusures and regulations in vain just because that is obtainable whether or not it works?

we are the minority here, we are only allowed 25% the nets are allowed 75%
so tell me how cutting us down is going to do a damn bit of good? How is that going to save fish for the future?

Well said. It's not like I'm the voice of credibility on this board by any menas, but for whatever it's worth, I agree with you.

posted by stlhdh2o

I understand that but there offspring are still affected when they go to sea. so how many fish have we really saved.

Micropterus -

Believe it or not I agree with you. Nets constitute the largest threat to the vitality of returning fish...

The thing is though, we can all point at that fact and go 'Yup...'...but what frickin good does it do us or the fish? I don't see the Supreme Court changing their minds any time soon on allocated harvest percentages or treaty rights so...

Take some responsibility...is it fair that it falls on our shoulders to protect a resource no one seems to care about except sporties? Hell no...but NOT taking common sense measures to protect what's left of the resource makes people with logic yours, nothing personal, just as as culpable for the declining returns as any of the other things you mentioned.

Summation: Is it our fault runs are declining? No...

Can we do something to mitigate our contribution to that decline? Yes...unequivocally, and in my opinion if you are not taking those measures you have no right to complain about the other contributing factors.

On the net thing, do what the rest of us can do...write your congressmen, Senators, state reps etcetera and see how far you get.....all the complaining and/or organizing in the whole world is not likely to save one fish...but by enacting a personal bait ban or selective fishery you could save a fish tomorrow.

Makes perfect sense to me. Get rid of some nets, and KILL some seals, and a little bit of habitat conservation, and we might actually get some place with the fish numbers.

It will never happen though..........

Let's point the finger at everyone else and not get our house in order first. It is the nets fault, it is the Indians fault, it is the land owners fault, etc etc. Yes those are causes for our fish run declinine. Can you do something about most of those nope. But we can get our house in order so when they come and try to blame the Recreational fisherman we have our ducks in a row.

It is ridiculous to think that just fixing one of the 4H's will fix it completely but you know what you have to take steps down the right path. Like Hey not using bait in the summer when smolts are in the river. Remember the 30% rate on Rainbows with bait?

It is so tired to be pointing the fingers at others without at least pointing one at ourselves. When you use resource you have an effect (some more then others). You should look for ways to minimize your effect on it.

I love to fish. There is nothing more I love then to feel the pull of steelhead at the end of the line but I also know there are things I can do to help do my part. No bait, barbless hooks, staying off redd's, Good Catch and release practices, etc.

Call me a elitist if you want. Call me a snob. I don't care. What I do care about is limiting my negative effect on our runs.

JJ

They should have been made to trade their netting rights for their casinos!

PK43,

It can happen if we all ban together and protest by not buying a fishing license. The politicions took our fees and put them in the general fund to get their hands on it instead of it all going to the fisheries. With a 2 billion deficet and no money coming in from the sports fisherman they will be crying their eyes out. It might hurt our guides in the short term but I think it would be more affective than just writing our reps.

Maguana,

Here's a little math calculation to work out should you choose to do so.

1 - Take the TOTAL operating budget WDFW is allotted for 1 fiscal year.

2 - Multiply the total number of fishing licenses sold by 40. (this is a generous figure because it assumes that ALL sportfisher's purchased both the salt and freshwater licenses.

Subtract #2 from #1. While I don't have the exact figures handy (That's where research on your part comes in) I think you'll find that the total revenue generated from license sales IS LESS than WDFW's operating budget. The rest is provided through the general fund.

What I am saying is that while we have are "ducks in a row" the fish populations are still declining so what good does it do to look at ourselves, as the problem is still getting worse? wouldnt our efforts be better spent on projects that actually help the fish rather than projects that are slowly evaporating are ability to fish. While the main problems are rapidly taking away are ability to fish at all.

every year I see more and more rule proposals on the wdfw website, last year in particular we lost alot of ground even antifishing groups are now posting rule proposals! and getting them adopted by the board. This is not going to save our fish! It just gives people the false sense that there helping to save the fishing future while there taking the fishing out of fishing!

Our fish are still disapearing

I too would like to have a no fishing license year , But they would make more money righting tickets and as explained in the drug post fishing is a drug I could not quit.

Micro, Micro, Micro--- I like stlh2o agree with what you have to say, we have just moved one step further along the path and deal with our own effect on the fish first and fight the other battles second. I believe we have a personal responsibility to shovel our own sh!t first.

Micro,

I appreciate your frustration, but it's just as easy for the other users of the resource to use the same argument...

"I'm a commercial fisherman. I'm not netting fish in the rivers, nor am I raping the habitat, diminishing the water quality, or catching the poor fish right out of their spawning grounds. I'm not stopping what I do until the others do."

"I'm a tribal fisherman. I don't put out miles of ghost nets in the ocean, rape the habitat, pour pollution in the water and air, or line up right outside the hatchery creeks and foul hook the fish with 150 of my favorite fishing buddies, while throwing my trash all over the place. I'm not stopping what I do until the others do."

"I'm a developer. True, I screw up the habitat and water quality, but it sure makes a lot of money for poor communities around here. If it wasn't for the damn natives and commercial fishermen, not to mention those damn sporties, there'd be plenty of fish in the river. I'm not stopping what I do until the others do."

Seals would have plenty to eat if it wasn't for all the rest of us, too.

There's no rule that you can only support one type of enhancement, and taking responsibility for your role is in no way denying other factors. As long as no one addresses their own impacts unless others do, no one will do a damn thing.

Not only do I try to modify my own impacts to reduce their effects on fish and fish runs, I also work to modify the others so that they also can reduce their effects.

It makes sense politically, too, to be the only ones to say "I've fixed up my backyard, whattabout you?".

Fish on...

Todd.

Well Micro,

You have hit the nerve center of this board!

Now you got old Jerry, Todd and stlhdh2o on your butt! They have brought out the goon squad and your now in big trouble!

When they send Todd in, all the strings have been pulled…you have hit another nerve center that may weaken their chain

Ok; Jerry, Todd, and stlhdh2o …bring it on!

P.S. stlhdh2o your aviator picture really does suck! (just my opinion)

Cowlitzfisherman

So does your spelling...so what?

...and Vision Hooks ROCK (well, most of them any ways)!

Oh wait, sorry, thought this was another hook thread.

Darn!



Parker
Goon Squad Pro Staff
Clan SmartAss

Why is that some of you guys lay low all day until you see that your empire is falling?

It's just isn't by accident, or is it, that you guys just always seem to jump in to save each other when one of the clan gets in trouble?

I know, I am a very bad bor again!

Cowlitzfisherman

Yeah...we call ourselves the 'logical argument posse'...

Cross us and we'll put a linguistic beat down on you the likes of which hasn't been seen since the post-Scrabblebowl riots of '73...

"So does your spelling...so what?"

To be born so great, and the fact that you are only 34 years old or so!

How have I lived so long without you to correct my spelling or wisdom?

Cowlitzfisherman

Most likely via the same means that has kept me alive without your namecalling and critique of my artwork all these years.

Cheers CF