With all this talk comming up the past few years about steelhead and resident rainbows being the same and spawning together I have wondered about a certian fish caught last year..
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I caught this strange looking bugger on a upper upper stretch of one of the rivers out here in early January. It was a buck of about 4 or 5 pounds 26 inches or so..
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You be the judge steelhead or rainbow.

Rich,

My hunch is that it's a steelhead. The length suggests that to me, although the length/girth relationship appears near the margin for being either one. Headwater rainbows are usually much smaller, although there are exceptions to most everything. Lower river fish could attain larger sizes, however, they usually get caught and bonked first. And a lower river resident venturing into the headwaters would normally be expected to do so in the spring or summer. It's cool that there are fish out there breaking enough of the rules to keep us confused so that we never completely understand them.

Sincerely,

Salmo g.

i hate to burst your bubble if you think it is a steelhead, i've heard that if its over 20 inches its considered a steelhead. i dont agree with that type of classifying when talking about steelhead.it looks like a native cut-throat to me

Rich,
I have to agree with sturgio. I've seen some native cutthroats in some upper river and smaller creek stretches that I've caught that look exactly the same as this one. They are resident native cutthroats usually 12-20 inches. Have caught some above 20 inches. I'm saying native cutthroat.

chromeslayer

Well, since they are both the same fish, I guess I can't go wrong with my guess!

Steelhead.

Just doesn't have the big 'bow look to it. Doesn't look like a cutty.

Parker,
What makes you think it isn't a big cutty? I wish I had a digital camera, I'd go catch a couple today and send the picture to ya. You ever caught a cutty? Just curious. Somebody out there help me out. I really think its a cutty.

chromeslayer

Throat slashes? Don't see any.............

IMO steelhead. Not cutty because of the distinctive horizontal pink slash from gillplate back. Plus big cutties I've seen have lots of "goldish" hues along fins and back and smaller spots (This steelhead is really mottled though, but with relatively bigger spots.). Not resident because of the watermarking. I'm talking about those grey splotches along its flanks.

Well thats a tough one , by doing a little research and comparing photos my guess would be a native steelhead. Dont think its a cutthroat, no spots on anal fins and the jaw doesnt came back past the eye hardly.

http://dnr.metrokc.gov/wlr/waterres/salmon/trout.htm

Look at the link and read and see what you think.

Thanks Chromeslayer, but don't bother. I know a cutty when I see one. Or, at least I should, seeing how I have a degree in Fisheries. Glub knows I spent a lot of time looking at fish! Oh, and yes, I've caught a cutty or two in my lifetme.

It's a steelhead.

Oh wait, Rich caught that? Never mind, that's most definitely a white fish..no..sucker!

I say native cutthroat in spawning phase. Compare the spotting between Rich's fish and a cutthroat I caught out of Lake WA.



Very similar.

Sturgio,
Chromeslayer,

Look at the spot pattern. Coastal cutthroat spots typically extend well below the lateral line compared to Rich's specimen. The black margin on the adipose is also more typical of rainbow/steelhead. Also, a cutthroat that colored up should definitely be showing off its red throat slashes. Of course, the two species are so closely related that we'd have to do a chromosome count to really be sure.

Easylimits,

The spots on your cutthroat extend further below the lateral line than on Rich's fish, and the spots are proportionately smaller as well.

Sincerely,

Salmo g.

I would have to say that is very definatly a native steelhead. 100% sure that it is not a cutthroat. A cut would have yellowish fins and bright orange slashes under that head. Especially a native cut. A bow has more rounded fins that this fish has. At that time of year a native bow would be very bright as they don't spawn until lator in the spring. And just the likely hood of a bow reaching that length in a river which in terms of native resident fish wouldn't have a very big food source.I caught a fish almost exactly like this a couple of years ago and it was definatly a steelhead.

Tim

Looks like a small wild summer steelhead to me. Doesn't look at all like a cuttie to me, with the red band and pink cheeks, no slashes, no yellow/orange on fins. Shape looks like steelhead. So, take a look at this westside upper river fish from last fall, steelhead or resident? :

http://www.robelam.com/fishing/02images/winter/leopard_bow.jpg

Rich's fish appears to be a small steelhead. Now nailknot's is a bit of a quandry. My call is either cutty or cutbow. Either way, it's a naas feeesh.

Double post. Well there's a first time for everything, damn back button.

Nailnot's fish looks similar to cuttbow hybrids I used to catch in upper river tribs that were isolated from any steely population in the main river by dams, waterfalls, etc.

Some of the fish I caught were more cutt-like, w / tounge teeth, some more like a rainbow. I think they are all hybrids.

I can tell you that 5 minutes after the above fish, I hooked and landed another, same size, light spots above lat line, silvery, deep red band "typical" rainbow. I think the one in the photo looks like a cutt/bow a bit as well. This river is open to the salt, not isolated. Also looks a lot like the AK bows with the heavy spots. Another view of the same fish as above (no flash & kinda blurry): http://www.robelam.com/fishing/02images/winter/blur_bow.jpg

That would be one heck of a big sea-run!

If that's not a steelhead, then I'm a lot better cutthroat fisherman than I ever dreamed!

Doesn't look like any of the cutts I've seen from the river. As Salmo g mentions, the spotting doesn't extend far enough down the body ... that's one thing that always catches my eye when we do get a cuttie is just how far down the spotting extends.

As for coloration, there's a reason the cutts are called "yellowbellies" out here! (might be the case elsewhere too, just never fish a lot for them specifically) Don't see that on this fish at all!

That's one the cuttiest looking bow or the rainbowiest looking harvesters I've seen in a while. It looks very similar to a fish a buddy caught on the Cedar many years back. Thinking it was a steelhead, it wasn't till much later that we determined it was a cutthrout, and that was confirmed only by the presence of "tongue teeth" or hypoloid teeth, as I think they are called. We all thought that the fish looked odd and everyone on the river that day who saw it, and there were plenty, had a hard time agreeing on it's pedigree until after the teeth were discovered. This fish went somewhere around 6-8, I believe. Big Cutty, for sure. I think I may have a picture of it still and I am sure MJ is still around to confirm the actual weight. He felt concerned enough about taking it at the time that he had it mounted. The mount never quite looked the same as the original though because of it's very unusual shape to begin with and because the taxi' didn't know whether to make him look like a rainbow or a cutthroat. It really fooled him too. Anyway I'll try to find the picture to post later.
Just when you think you've seen it all, eh?

Just a comment, not necessarily related to the fish in question. Curt Kraemer feels that steelhead/sea-run cutthroat hybrids occur with some regularity in the Stillaguamish system. Among the big "cutthroat" identified by anglers there seems to be a break at about twenty inches and then a small number of fish from about twenty-four to twenty-six inches which he feels are hybrids. These larger fish apparently exhibit at least some cutthroat characteristics such as hyoid (basibranchial) teeth, though sometimes not very prominently. Normally coastal cutthroat are less likely to hybridize with rainbows than other cutthroat subspecies are, but an ongoing study at Forks Creek on the lower Willapa indicates that it probably occurs more often than has been previously thought.

I've caught many fish that look like that on the upper reaches of a particular OP stream over the years, all in early-mid winter. All about that size and overall ripeness. All bucks. Definately steelhead. That one has more and smaller spots though.

Either a very spotty steelie or the above mentioned cross.

There is a little Hood Canal stream that has a run of dinky winter steelhead than look just like that, heavy spots and all. A couple years ago in January I caught a hen that would have mated nicely with that one, just barely 22 inches and 3.8 pounds using the formula. Fought like a fish 3 times her size I'd rather C&R one of those than any cookie cutter factory fish, way to go Rich

Here is a pic for ya'. I caught it on the Cow couple months ago, fought like a Steelie! Definate SeaRun Cutt!

http://groups.msn.com/PedoHedo/shoebox.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=120

Peter ><>

I say steelie also...

There is a thanksgiving run of fish that hit the Skagit, not saying where they're going but they look a lot like that. We call em tube fish, usually 4 to 8 pounds. You should see them on the way back out!

As for the cut/bow on the Stilly system... I've been fishing that system for the past 20+ years and over the years have taken many large cuts in the 20 to 28 inch range. I honestly can't recall anything different about the big ones from the small ones (like 20" is small). There were times my brother and I got into 20 fish days each with fish all in the 20 to 26 inch range. I can clearly remember deep redish/orange gashes in the throat, and the yellowish colored belly.

Sorry Rich that is definately a steelie. You have caught plenty of them to no the difference. Oh Peter that fish that you are holding up is a Steelie as well. Doesn't have the markings of a cutthroat. But does have a missing adipose fin just like a hatchery jack does.

after reading all of the posts, i am going to have to stick with my first intuition, a very nice cutty, doesn't sound like anyone really knows

You're still insisting cutty? Why?

I'm insisting cutty still too. Hard to see throat slashes from that angle. Tough call but I think its a cut. Rich, do you recall if there were throat slashes or if you even checked. Regardless, its a beautiful fish and I just love the fact that fish can fool even the most knowledgeable. My opinion is strictly coming from my limited experience but I have caught fish in upper river stretches near my home in the 20+ inch range that are colored identical to this one that are cutties. Great post Rich, love the opinionated responses.

chromeslayer

I agree w/ PG that Peter's fish is a steelhead jack. I have caught many of those cutts returning to Blue Creek and a few Cow steelie jacks as well. IMO that is def a jack...

Pat and Hohwian,
Check out how far the upper jaw extends past the eye on Pete's fish. Just like like a Cutthroat? hmmmm...

Rich's fish is of the rainbow variety, whether it be resident or steelhead... only the fish will know. Most likely a steelhead.

You dont see to many resident rainbows down here, not like you do up north anyway... not sure why that is?

Rich,
You, out of all people...........
That's a steelie Richy. Plain and simple. I've caught some on the skookumchuck that look very similar. But then again, considering your luck this winter maybe you forgot what a steelhead looks like
Justin

It's a fish

If it took drag it's a good fish. :p

Looks like our steelie jacks that we see after they have spent some time in the river. Most of ours are right around that 3-4 pound mark with darks psots and nice "river" colors to them. Usually at the tail end of the season. My vote (worth a half cup of cold coffee) is a jack steelie that never was told by his buddies, to spend another year in the salt. FRIENDS DON'T LET FRIENDS SPAWN PREMATURELY.

Both fish - steelies. Call 'em jacks if you like.
When I was fishing the steelhead runs in S.E. Alaska real heavy - we caught multiple fish each day in that/those size ranges. Along with many many SRC's. I remember the SRC's having rounder, shorter noses, as well as the "yellow bellies" - and cutts on the gills that would show themselves and give away the species id right away.
Great fish, both of 'em.
I am sure anyone that has fished Prince of Wales, Admiralty, Chichagof, and Baranof Islands streams caught plenty of fish that looked just like those above.

They are just small steelhead.


And there aint nuthin wrong with being small.

If I was tall I'd probably be stupid.....

Rich,
I've caught a few like this, mostly on the upper west side of OP, and only in the upper reaches. IMO its one of the best color stages a steelhead has!!! Well... next to snow white belliies, chrome sides, and mad as heck!!!
Yeah, steelhead for sure!!

Definately a Smallmouth Bass

Steelthroat? Cutthead? Residualized steelie with Cuttie Grandpa? Willing to try anything, those kinky trout!

Still confused about this fish:

http://www.robelam.com/fishing/02images/winter/leopard_bow.jpg

The spots are larger and more irregular than the spots on a steelhead. I am willing to bet that fish had teeth on its tongue too.

my answer is non of the above. I am going to sat a hybrid cross between cutthroat and rainbow cutbow.

I have caught quite a few in a local lake with a great cutthroat run.

Without a doubt, it's Oncorhynchus mykiss.

But the question is whether this fish has spent any time in the ocean (a steelhead) or has spent it's entire existence in freshwater (a rainbow). To answer that question you have to presume that the fish takes on different traits depending on the environment in which it lives.

That's normally not difficult to do. As we all know, steelhead are usually large and silvery while rainbows are small and heavily spotted. But this fish has characteristics of both. Therefore, it could be either. I do not believe anyone can tell definitively whether the fish has spent any time in the ocean based on this one photo. The photo simply doesn't provide enough information. It's large size suggests an ocean existance while the coloration suggests considerable time in freshwater.

Flip a coin.....

Rich,

If it came from the upper reaches of the river I'm thinking of, one whose springs create some pretty cool looking and large residents, then I'd think twice and probably still call it a steelhead.

If it came from any other stream out there, then I'd immediately go to steelhead. Color, spotting, and shape are not what I'd call too "cutthroaty"...

Nailknot,

That is one beautiful fish! I'd go with a cutt/steely cross that one...though I'd love to have seen it up close and personal.

I have a USGS bio friend whose area of expertise is cutthroat/steelhead interbreeding on the OlyPen. I'll point out this thread to him and let him chime in.

Fish on...

Todd.

We caught a fish with Letty that looked like that, she said the bio had been mixing cutts with steels, it was a great looking fish. Dont know about the problems those fish could cause

Ok, I'm going to state definitively that Nailknot's fish is the elusive West slope Atlantic Rainbow German brown Cutthroat Char. Otherwise known as Oncorhynchus Whothefuknosicus.

That's what I was thinking 4salt Rich- thanks for starting this thread. When I landed the fish, I was in a hurry to get the shot and release it. I assumed it was a residulaized/resident rainbow. Looked like a heavily spotted rainbow, not unlike the AK "leopard bows." When I looked at the pics later, my first thought was-- Cutt/Bow. Two casts after that one, I landed a silvery rainbow, about the same size. Certainly cool to bump into these fish occasionally, no matter what their kinky parent were thinking

My 02 cents!
Rich G's fish
Agree with cohoangler - definitely O. mykiss. Typically adult rainbows in our anadromous streams are 14 to 20 inches with only the very rare fish getting to 24/25 inches. Rich reported the fish as being about 26 inches - too large to be a steelhead jack - most likely a steelhead. With a scale sample could determine for sure whether rainbow or steelhead. A resident rainbow in the 2 foot range would likely be about 10 years old and had spawned 4 or 5 times - a steelhead would be only 4 years old or occasionally a year older if it was a repeat spawner.

The green vegetation in the water would indicate a nearby spring type pond/creek thus some interesting things could be happening though without seeing the spring situation I have no idea what the growth potential might be.

Nailknot's -
Also O mykiss. Pretty much the same comments as above. Though if as I suspect the fish came from the South Fork of the **** in the late fall it would be a 1 salt summer steelhead.

The coloration variations of the old O mykiss complex (even in a small area as Western Washington) can be very interesting and confusing.

Tight lines
Smalma

I was always 99.9% sure it was a steelhead, but I thought it would be interesting to see what all of you thought since it was a bit abnormal and trouty.

I'v never heard of a cuttbow befor today.But thats what I'd call it


L J

Thanks Smalma!

Caught a couple of these in a row one day( or same one twice) on the ***** River near ******* ****** State Park below ****** Rock. Both buck steelhead.
Ramprat

I work for a Lodge on Chichagof Island in SE AK and these fish look just like the jack steelies we catch all the time. I think 26" is too large to be a jack though.