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#184045 - 01/29/03 05:03 AM Re: PRESIDENT BUSH STATE OF THE UNION
Arklier Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 05/30/01
Posts: 403
I personally voted no. Not that I wouldn't like to see Saddam get his @$$ kicked, but I don't think we're going to war for the right reasons. Why are we going to war? Because Saddam might have weapons? So might many countries that we wouldn't like having them. Take North Korea for instance. They're looking to get nukes, if they don't have them already. I don't see us mongering to go to war with them. IMHO, the reason why Bush wants war so badly is to take peoples' attention off the sorry state of affairs at home, and to 'fix' what his daddy started. We all live in this state. We know what the economy is like here. It's $#!+. Layoffs left and right, companies threatening to leave, people losing their benefits, or worse. What better way to wag the dog by distracting people than going to war with someone everyone hates, and at the same doing what his dear old dad failed to do 10 years ago? In my opinion, those aren't good enough reasons to go to war. We should focus on spending money at home to help get the economy out of its downward spiral, not spending billions of dollars bombing some third world country into the ground.

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#184046 - 01/29/03 07:54 AM Re: PRESIDENT BUSH STATE OF THE UNION
hawk Offline
Spawner

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 592
Loc: austin, Minnesota, USA
The case for taking out Sadam Hussein was made years ago. He is a brutal tyrant. He should have been dealt with a long time ago, and it's our fault for not finishing the job. He should have assumed room temperature over a decade ago. I'm bored an tired with all of this concensus cr*p. The rest of the world doesn't wait for concensus when they come knocking on the door for aid and food for their people. Why is it that most of them run for cover, unless their rumps are hanging out in the wind. Then the big, bad, evil, greedy Americans come marching in to save the day.

If/when we go to war, we owe it to our troops to support them 100% without fail. We are blessed to have fine young men and women in our armed forces to help protect our country and our interests abroad. Right, wrong, or indifferent, sack up and support our troops

On the other hand, we can wait for Iraq for to fully develop a full blown nuke or biological weapon, provide it to some terrorists, to unleash another round of terror on our country. I fully believe that Bin Laden and his cronies in (Iraq, Yemen, Saudi Arabia, Indonesia, Kuwait, along with numerous other countries) would love the opportunity. Then we'll be b*tching about how we didn't do anything.

The bottom line is it is very easy to sit back in a chair and be critical of people who make decisions. You always have history, to say judge what could have been done. If it's a Republican/Democrat thing, then get off your A**, and vote at every local, state, and national election. Then you have the right to biatch. Our forefathers died to give you that right.

I'm done rambling now. Too much damn coffee this morning.
_________________________
The best way to be succesful in life is to keep the people who hate you away from the people who are undecided

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#184047 - 01/29/03 09:45 AM Re: PRESIDENT BUSH STATE OF THE UNION
ltlCLEO Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 06/15/01
Posts: 1119
Loc: brownsville wa.
The democrats did not take Bin Ladden for what he was worth,let him bomb our embassys and even blow a whole in the Cole.What did the democrats do?Launch one stinking missle and say I am sorry I missed.Clinton was more interested in getting gays in the military than he was in protecting this country.

I for one am not willing to let any terrorist make any threasts and get away with it.You threaten us you pay the price.This sitting around and talking about is for the weak and america is not weak!I will stand behind both our soldiers and our pres. on this.

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#184048 - 01/29/03 10:09 AM Re: PRESIDENT BUSH STATE OF THE UNION
grandpa Offline
Three Time Spawner

Registered: 08/18/02
Posts: 1843
Loc: brier,wa
Todd....Well said...same ol partisan BS...Some opinions are soooo predictable. Oh geez Tom Daschle is on the news...I better go and see what an objective comment he has.
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#184049 - 01/29/03 10:54 AM Re: PRESIDENT BUSH STATE OF THE UNION
umrules Offline
Spawner

Registered: 12/28/99
Posts: 619
Loc: wa., usa
It's time to go in with guns a blazin'. We should have too Sadam from power in 91, then again in 95, then again in 98.....enough is enough! I didn't see the address unfortunately so I can't really say if Bush made his case or not, but the case has been made for sometime now!
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#184050 - 01/29/03 11:47 AM Re: PRESIDENT BUSH STATE OF THE UNION
Mike C Offline


Registered: 04/05/01
Posts: 1424
Loc: Redmond
A few thoughts that I've had:

I think you have to consider that this was a state of the union speech. As such, presidents use them to outline their vision of where the country is and what policies they want to initiate in the future. It's not a forum to go into great detail on what our "proof" is. But I do think the president articulated as well as I have heard Saddam's duplicity vis a vis the UN resolutions since the Gulf War. 108 inspectors are NOT going to find these weapons that Saddam has refused to account for. Unless he comes clean he remains in violation of the surrender terms that he signed at the end of the gulf war. So the question becomes, if he is not in compliance, what is the UN going to do about it? Is it a legitimate organization or just talk?

I think we need to wait and hear what Powell will present to the Security Console on Feb 5th. And I do think the US needs to do what it deems neccesary for it's national interests and security. We can't let the likes of France and Germany dictate to us what our national interests are.

Regarding Korea, one crisis at a time! That situation is very different from Iraq and needs to be handled a different way. Lets face it, the risk to S Korea is immense and it will require a different approach from Iraq.

I too, am puzzled as to why when Clinton blasted Iraq with cruise missiles and fixed wing planes a few years back, there were virtually NO protests in the streets. He did it without UN approaval and was condeemed in the UN, yet we saw no marching in the streets. But Bush trys to work with the UN and the protesters take to the streets. Must be a partisan thing...

On a final note, what did you think of Gov. Locke? I thought he looked like a used car salesman. That goofy grin and fake sincerity was embarassing.
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www.washingtonlakes.com "Featuring readers lake and saltwater reports."

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#184051 - 01/29/03 12:02 PM Re: PRESIDENT BUSH STATE OF THE UNION
goharley Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/27/02
Posts: 3276
Loc: U.S. Army
I believe the reason Clinton got away with bombing Iraq is because he did it much less low-key than Bush is doing. Clinton didn't do the "war" thing. But it is a different situation. Bush is trying to rally the UN and other nations to war... the key word being "war." It's given the protestors too much time to organize, rationalize, hypothosize, and criticize.

If Bush would have attacked this situation from a different front, more convertly, he would have won over the American people, and other nations, more easily.
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#184052 - 01/29/03 12:33 PM Re: PRESIDENT BUSH STATE OF THE UNION
cowlitzfisherman Offline
Three Time Spawner

Registered: 06/14/00
Posts: 1866
Loc: Toledo, Washington
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#184053 - 01/29/03 12:38 PM Re: PRESIDENT BUSH STATE OF THE UNION
Mike C Offline


Registered: 04/05/01
Posts: 1424
Loc: Redmond
I agree, but covert operations aren't going to take Saddam out. It takes time to build up an invasion force. I think we can all agree that if Bush hadn't started rattling the sabres and building up an invasion force Saddam would have done what he has done all these years - nothing. Dictators only recognize and are intimidated by one thing - power.

CFM, nice post. We are in a unique time in history, America is the Rome of it's age. But unlike Rome, we temper our strength with responsibilty. Let us pray it always be so.
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#184054 - 01/29/03 12:52 PM Re: PRESIDENT BUSH STATE OF THE UNION
ET Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 11/21/01
Posts: 391
Loc: Tacoma
CFM said it all!

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#184055 - 01/29/03 01:09 PM Re: PRESIDENT BUSH STATE OF THE UNION
Seacat Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 06/23/00
Posts: 374
Loc: Duvall, WA
They march in the streets calling for death to America. We march in the streets calling for no war with Iraq. confused

If they could do it, they would do it. They being those in Iraq calling for death to America. It being an act of terror killing thousands of Americans. We can't afford that risk.

The President was right when he said that trusting in Saddamm is not a strategic policy and it's also not an option. The President was right when he said that America goes to war with a heavy heart knowing the price to be paid. We didn't pick this fight but we are going to finish it. mad

btw, well said hawk and cwf.
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#184056 - 01/29/03 01:27 PM Re: PRESIDENT BUSH STATE OF THE UNION
GutZ Offline
The Original Boat Ho

Registered: 02/08/00
Posts: 2954
Loc: Bellevue
The speech was very moving. I don't think anyone's opinion changed. Those that were opposed to the Presidents point of view remain opposed, on all issues. I saw some get up and walk out (of the neighborhood pub;)) with their preformed ideas without even taking time to listen.

I believe that the case will be made, without doubt, as to what our course of action should, and will be on the 5th of February.

In regards to Mr. Locke's rebuttal, I couldn't help but think he seemed like the Oxen (Water Buffalo) in Apocolypse now. You remember that don't you?
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#184057 - 01/29/03 01:53 PM Re: PRESIDENT BUSH STATE OF THE UNION
fred evans Offline
Juvenile at Sea

Registered: 09/16/01
Posts: 216
Loc: White City, Oregon
In regards to Mr. Locke's rebuttal, I couldn't help but think he seemed like the Oxen (Water Buffalo) in Apocolypse now. You remember that don't you?

From someone in Oregon, I thought the Demo's choice for a 'rebuttle' speach was very strange, very strange indeed. Understand Locke's a very likeable guy, but given he's never held political office outside of Wash. State (Gov. or no), has zero foreign experience, etc., ..... very strange indeed.
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#184058 - 01/29/03 02:07 PM Re: PRESIDENT BUSH STATE OF THE UNION
KerryS Offline
Juvenille at Sea

Registered: 07/24/01
Posts: 152
Loc: Everett, WA
President Bush strikes me as a mediocre man trying to be great. He is using a war with Iraq as his vehicle to go down as a great leader of the world. He chose Iraq because of several things. One, his military advisors tell hem he can win quickly. Two, he said it himself. Hussein tied to kill his daddy. Revenge. Three, control the oil you control the economy. He is trying to do the right thing for all the wrong reasons, a mediocre leader trying to be great.

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#184059 - 01/29/03 02:27 PM Re: PRESIDENT BUSH STATE OF THE UNION
The Moderator Offline
The Chosen One

Registered: 02/09/00
Posts: 14486
Loc: Tuleville
No, I do not think Bush made his case for war against IRAK during this speech. I'm with EZ on this one.

Now, that being said, I DO think the Administration will de-classify information this week (or early next week) that WILL make his case.

From what I've been has been reported, it's almost a given that the US has classified intelligence that backs up what the UN weapons inspectors are saying - and that is that IRAK is hiding it's weapons and not being honest.

If that can be proven, than that's a violation of the UN Mandate. That get's my vote to go in and take out good ol' Sammy Houston in IRAK.

What troubled me the most about the speech was what Bush DIDN'T say to the US people.

What are the direct consequences if we do go to war?

It's estimated that if we wage war with IRAK, we will need to stay in that country for at least 5-7 (once the current regime is gone) years to stabilize and protect the new regime. Cost is estimated at 200+ billion, if not more! Ouch.
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#184060 - 01/29/03 03:20 PM Re: PRESIDENT BUSH STATE OF THE UNION
desert rat Offline
Eyed Egg

Registered: 01/29/03
Posts: 7
Loc: Tacoma
I don't think it is a matter of proving sadaam has weapons of mass destruction. We already knew that. Its up to sadaam to prove that he has destroyed those weapons. He is clearly skirting the issue. At what point do we take action against sadaam? Is it when a few thousand Americans die from a weapon that was created or bought from him? Or do we put a stop to now. It is called having a good offense. We will be going to war, now is the time to support our commander and chief, and the thousands of troops that he leads.


GOD BLESS AMERICA!! just my opinion

Oh yea I am new to this board. Hello everyone
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the only other good head is a steelhead

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#184061 - 01/29/03 03:35 PM Re: PRESIDENT BUSH STATE OF THE UNION
Slab Quest Offline
Three Time Spawner

Registered: 08/17/01
Posts: 1640
Loc: Mukilteo or Westport
Hello, Desert Rat.

Welcome to Political Pursuits' discussion board.
_________________________
www.psasnoking.com

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#184062 - 01/29/03 05:17 PM Re: PRESIDENT BUSH STATE OF THE UNION
Chrome454 Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 11/28/00
Posts: 466
Loc: Drifting Down The Braids Of Sw...
We need to definatly go in NOW and do away with the maggot! Im very suprised that more
american people are not standing by their president. What do people think Saddam has been doing the last 12 years, underwater basket weaving?! Lets get real If anyone is a good judge of this charicter is doesen't take a rocket scientist to figure out he has weapons of mass destruction and is just waiting for the right time to use them.He needs one between the eyes NOW! mad mad mad
_________________________
When in Doubt, Knock the Back Out!!

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#184063 - 01/29/03 06:29 PM Re: PRESIDENT BUSH STATE OF THE UNION
4Salt Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/07/00
Posts: 3009
Loc: Lynnwood, WA
Yo Ed,

That's the thing that makes America truly great. You are allowed to disagree with the president, and not end up dead or in prison. Just because someone may disagree with the way a foreign policy issue is handled, doesn't mean that they're any less patriotic than those who would follow blindly and not question.
_________________________
A day late and a dollar short...

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#184064 - 01/29/03 06:35 PM Re: PRESIDENT BUSH STATE OF THE UNION
oneeyebob Offline
Fry

Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 36
Loc: Shoreline
Best part of being an American is you can disagree or jump on the band wagon with what our leaders are feeding us, Kind of like the biters in the rivers. He is a bad dude and hurts a lot of his own people in more ways than one, but how many of those good people will we have too kill to get him and will the country pull togrther for the leaders we install. Will it be a better place or more of the same or worst, who can really answer that? What about the other evil men leading thier countries, should we go get them? I didnt agree with Clinton on a lot of his foreign policy and I dont agree with this at this time, but if we go GOD BLESS OUR MEN AND WOMEM

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