i have been fishing the skagit river and catching ALOT of dollies. i have been told for yrs to C&R these fish and i have. After seeing how many of them there are and knowing that they eat lots of eggs and smolts. i was wondering if they should be thinned a bit. this is not necessarily my opinion just a question i had to ask. i kept one 24" dolly last trip and ate it. it was really good ive always been told they dont eat well and they dont compare to steelhead but are good non the less. the limit is 2 a day over 20". if we want to continue having the trophy size fish up there maybe a slot limit like walleye or something. I know these fish are important to the system and by no means want them gone but ARE they hurting the steelhead and salmon returns?
just wondering what ya all thought FISHON

I've heard that recent genetic testing is showing that these "dollies" in the Skagit are actually Bull trout. Bull trout are a listed species under the Endandered Species Act. Probably not a good idea to practice "thinning" of a threatened species.

Kinda funny how much attention they've received this year with the lack of fish in so many streams.

I think I know who's gonna help you here ... he's even named after one!

Is this 2003 or 1952? Seems to me, that most rivers with healthy salmon and steelhead populations, have healthy Char populations. And vice versa. Unless those dollies make an evolutionary jump to start netting and/or commerical fishing their salmonid brethren, I don't think you need to worry about them.

I have to agree with that sentiment, which is quite contrary to many of the 'old timers' I fish with. I figure we got this far, what several million years, and nature seems to have balanced itself out well. Keeping all species in check as necessayr, WITHOUT human intevention. I realize that there is some popular (depending on the crowd) opinion to the 'whack it' mentality for the sake of perserving or encoraging the survival of a 'more desirable' species. I throw them back unles I want ot eat one. But that just my view.

i have heard the same about the bull trout thing but its hard for me at least to pick the differences. i have heard a lot of people say the same. if they were tested to be bull then why still open if endangered?? i think they are dollies but im not an expert by any means. and if open maybe the state wants some of them to be retained not that the state has proved they are the smartest
FISHON

First ya want to kill them, now you want to list them? that was fast! I'm just happy the native char are doing well, and that I can fish for them. All good in my book.

Any egg that a dollie eats wasn't going to hatch anyway. Dollies don't dig fertilized eggs out of redds, they eat the stray eggs that get swept down stream.

Well when i flyfish in Montana you see signs all over the place about dollys/bull trout and that they are endangered. But every sign and their regulations booklet says that Dolly's are Bull trout. Isn't "Bull" trout the nickname? Because of the look of the head and lower jaw?

I also agree, endangered or not, just leave them be. Nature rulz!!!!

If your so inclined keep one-it is legal. After you are done pukin you wont keep another. The dollies in the Skagit for the last 2 1/2 months have been eating dead chum-better know as Chum FOO. YUCK YUCK. Fun Fun to catch though.


..........no chum have been kept to write this response

Bull trout in the Skagit/Sauk system (I still call to them dollies, just because I have for thirty or more years) are in no way endangered. According to Curt Kraemer, the population has increased tenfold (based on redd surveys) in the last decade. This is probably the result of the twenty-inch minimum size limit that went into effect at about that time. Since female bull trout don't spawn until they are around seventeen inches in length this assures them the opportunity to spawn at least once. There are only a few rivers in Washington where bull trout have been deemed sufficiently abundant that they can be legally fished for, let alone kept.

That said, I've fished for them since some time in the 'sixties but haven't killed one in at least twenty years. I'd say that the fishing is as good as, or even better than, it was then. I only hope that steelheading improves so there aren't so many guys fishing over "my" dollies.

nailknot, i never said i wanted to kill some dollies. it was a question i had. i did kill the one just to see how they eat tho. i have released bout 45 dollies in last week and i agree that they are by no means endangered up there. i will continue to C&R them i didnt meen for people to think i was gung ho on killing them. i just wanted insight on the question. boy did i get that Preston i will make sure to leave ya plenty of "your" dollies FISHON

I was just joshin ya Grahn, good on ya for releasing them. Interesting fish, those Dolly Trout/Bull Varden. <img border="0" alt="[Goldfish]" title="" src="graemlins/goldfish.gif" />

Fishon -
The latest information indicates that the native char found in the Skagit downstream of the dams and the Sauk are bull trout but it is OK with me to call them "Dollies" when fishing them.

They are included in the ESA listing of bull trout that covered all of the Puget Sound/Olympic peninsula area. Because the State had established that the Skagit/Sauk population was doing ok (healthy) at the time of the listing the USFWS procedures OKed the continued the regulations that allowed the "take" of them. Thus it remains legal to fish for them. Except for the Snohmish/Skykomish the rest of the listed area targeting them is prohibited.

Generally the larger "Dollies" caught in the early winter are pretty poor table fare as they are spawned out (fall spawner) and have lost much of their fats. As they recover (fatten up) they improve as table fare with some folks liking them and others not.

The "Dollies" are part of the biological system that the rest of the salmon and steelhead exist and as such are an important part of the selection process that makes those Skagit fish what they are.

A Skagit fish of 24 inches would likely be between 5 and 9 years old and may have spawned 2 to 5 times. The fish in the basin commonly live to about age 10 with the rare fish living maybe 12 or more years.

The current rate at which folks are keeping fish doesn't seem to be causing problems with the population. The increasing growth in population numbers that began in the early 1990s is continuing. Whether to keep a fish (whether a wild salmon, bull trout, cutthroat or where allowed steelehad) or not is of course up to the individual angler's ethics.

Tight lines
Smalma

Last weekend I picked up a few Dollies/Bull whatever up on the upper Skagit. One thing for sure, they are putting away a good portion of rotten chum carcass cuz when I pulled them out of the water they smelled as bad as the chums on the shore. PEW! I don't think I could stand the smell when cleaning one, let alone cooking or eating one!!!

Still I like the fact that there's something to catch since the steelheading has been so abysmal.

Many of these "Dollies" are now heading down towards the tidewater areas of both the north and south fork to spend the late winter and spring ambushing smolts passing by on their way to the salt.

A good number of these nicely fattened sea-run fish migrate back up with the springers and sockeye in June and July. They can be real tasty fish at that time with the red meated ones seeming to be better than the ones with the whiter meat.

I usually keep a couple around 24" or so each year at this time. The rest of the year I just leave them in the water to voraciously gobble up everything they can swallow.

With thousands of these "Dollies" in the river year round I can't help but think they consume a substantial number of chinook and steelhead parr.

Good or bad?

I won't be the judge but I do think they have an appreciable impact.

>>I won't be the judge but I do think they have an appreciable impact.>>

Hard to say if the Char have impact beyond all the other wild predators smolts and adults run across. Occasionally I fish a smolt pattern for Dollies, and while they sure like it, so do the resident trout. No question those Dollies love smolts tho.

i did some reading on dolly varden and found that they usualy dont dig for eggs as they catch stray eggs as stilly bum mentoined. if those unfertalized eggs were to settle in with fertalized they could spoil the nest , so i guess they are helpful in the rearing process. i know that all native fish play an important roll. another interesting fact i found was that the dolly varden was named after a character in a Dickens novel "barnaby rudge". Dolly varden wrote Dickens was "the very impersonatoin of good-humer and blooming beauty" i guess the first angler to catch one thought the same. thanks for all who posted and i will continue to
C&R all wild fish FISHON

Where and how is the best way to catch these, may try it with my son.

Thanks
Noskunk

Just wandering if char species such as dolly varden are native to puget sound and coastal streams. Have they been around just as long as salmon and steelhead have? If so I doubt we have anything to worry about.
On some streams I fish I've had my best steelheading days and my best dolly days as well!

Go figure.

This is one of mother natures ways of filtering out the week and only the strong will survive!

Tell me did mother nature build all of the dams and not care about fish passage or did we?

Did mother nature send all of these commercial boats out to slaughter all these fish or do we.

One thing we can't ever do is blame mother nature for declining fish runs.

If mother nature can bring back steelhead and salmon to the Toutle well you know