I have been given a permit to fish spin gear, in fly only waters any place in the state that has the fly only regs. This gives me access to some prime spots in this state. NF Stilly, Skagit, Upper Hoko,etc. I have only used this permit on three trips to the coast and once up north. On two of these trips I have been blasted by fly guys who demand to know what the FU-- I am doing in their spots without a fly rod, and i am catching fish and doing the proper CNR thing, I am respectful of the resource I never brag,boast,flaunt,and i avoid the other anglers as much as possible. But on two trips i have come back to my rig to find damage and endured verbal abuse big time while on the river. I have a permit to carry a weapon and i will tell ya what I am getting to the point that i might have to bring my friend with me while fishing Is that a cougar with waders and a attitude BOOM. JUST KIDDING GUYS JUST KIDDING.... I am not going to give up my fishing as long as I am legal and keep to my own I should be able to fish without the wrath of a pathetic fly guy who cant stand the sight of me nailing a 20ld nate on my first cast and another 13lb chromer on my 10th cast.I should of asked them to take my picture. It seeems like the WDFW has issued me a permit to be harrassed,abused,etc, etc, WHAT A JOKE???

That's too bad I certainly don't condone vandalism to property or violence to make a point. But, I am interested, is there such a permit that allows you to fish spin gear in fly only waters and what kind of criteria did you have to exhibit in order to obtain one. The only fly waters only waters in the state that I can think of, aside from a few lakes is the upper Hoko, NF Stilly- Summer and a very small section in the park on the Hoh. What is the point your trying to make?

What a joke is right. Why woulld WDFW create fly fishing only areas and then allow someone to gear fish it. I'd like to know more about this special permit. I am not a fly guy but I can't blame these fisherman for being upset. Just because WDWF has their head up their ass and your legal doesn't make it right.

FYI
Page 14 of your fishing regulations
FLY FISHING ONLY -
... "A fisher with a special with a special use disability permit in his possession may fish in "Fly Fishing Only" waters with spin casting gear with a casting bubble. All other restrictions listed above still apply."

page 11 list qualifications for diabled individuals -
* Legally blind
* Developmentally disabled
* Physically disabled and permanently uses a wheelchair
*Resident qualified vetern under 65 with a 30% or more service-connected disability

Tight lines
Smalma

Right or wrong... It dont make it right to go messin with peoples gear/rig...

If I catch anyone slashing tires, keying or doing anything to a rig, THEY are not going to need one of those disabled permits, they will be needing a life time of straws cause thats the only way they will be able to eat the rest of their lives. Arseholes anyways... Aint MAN enough to take it out (or try) on the person. Gotta be a little piece of crap and do something to an object that can't fight back. Spineless, completely spineless. And anyone who agrees with slashing tires and keying vehicles need to have their head rung also.

I agree with BBVD

I would have called the State Patrol. That's the best way to handle these situations. What was done is absolutely wrong!

Wooly Bully - sounds like you condone what was done. What's up with that?

Gottagofish, you don't mention when or where the damage to your vehicle and rod was done.

How did these guys get ahold of your lami to break it? Did you get the police involved?

sounds like you better try leaving a box of power bars and a orvis catalog on your rig. mabe it will distract them *******s. it's not like there are fifty guys fishing the same way you are. ive had guys do the same to me and it really pisses them off when i get my fly rod out and give them a lesson or too.

For all of you people that are against what this one person is up against fishing in fly only water with a disability. Put youself in his shoes. He probably like to fish like you do but can't. How many more fish is/are he going to get than you get. I've never seen so many selfish people in my life. Just because he's disabled he should have a chance to get out and fish and so what if he's using spinning gear in fly only water. If you don't like what he's doing go some where else and fish. I'm sure you know of somewhere else to fish.

Right On "OLD MAN"

People's selfishness never ceases to amaze me.

Gotagofish ,you let me know next time your heading out sounds like you need someone to watch your back. Ive gota nice little stick with a piece of lead in the end of it and if that dont get their att can you say BUCKSHOT. Its not against the law to protect your property or yourself and it dont take much for me to feel threatened. So Email me When your going.

I am in complete disagreement with everything here. I disagree with the concept of fly only waters and I totally disagree with anyone vandalizing anyone elses property for any reason

Titanium Cranium + all others,
I have had my rig vandalized while on the river. what a chicken sh!t play in any case. I certainly don't condone or support anyone vandalizing anyones stuff or even harassing this guy. I did not know that this special permit was granted to handicapped people. I should have made more of an effort to understand what this permit was about before posting. I was simply saying that this, like a lot of WDFW's rules doesn't make much sense. These upset flypeople should direct their frustration at the WDFW.

It's good to see that most agree.....busting up someone's stuff (or stealing it...same thing) is the work of the spineless.

Fly guys really do buck the odds of catching fish. I gave it up for steelhead....just too much water that can't be covered adequately with a fly rod. Fly guys can fish next to me anytime, and I don't mind giving up a spot to them either.

I find it hard to imagine that anyone interested in throwing flys would be assholish enough to slash tires though. All I have ever met have been fun sportsmen....but then I haven't met em all, I guess. Very sad.

Gottagofish,

If you ever need someone to go with, you got a ride in my boat. Sorry about the incidents. Hopefully things get better.

Andy

i think they should outlaw flyfishing

Wernergonefishin beat me to that suggestion but since we are both from Chehalis maybe we can carpool. I operate a flyrod from time to time myself and I'd like to meet these jerks. If they are too stupid to read the rule book then someone with more than a few brain cells should be able to scare hell out of 'em. Should be fun.

I knew brad would be a voince of reason here.

Hey, your newly retired fishing buddy is big into flies, bardo. I'm hoping you can set him straight.

Gottago,

These fly dudes must be insecure about their fish-catching abilities. I'd call the gamies ask them if they could assist you in setting these guys straight.

This is one of the more interesting posts I have seen in a while. First, it strikes me as strange that "fly guys" would do these types of things (not necessarily the verbal abuse, but the vandalism). Regardless, there is no reason for your property to be damaged. As a recent victim of a car break-in on the river, I still am carrying some rage around.
You are certainly entitled to your privacy regarding why you are allowed to have the permit in the first place, but it might be helpful for the board to get an idea of why you have it (I hope you aren't blind, considering you are packin' heat). It does seem a little strange to me that the WDFW issues these types of permits (probably best not to try to understand all WDFW decisions). It would seem that these permits are aimed at people with disabilities which would, by nature, make access to "fly only" rivers difficult. Also, based on Smalma's quoting of the regulations, it sounds like fishing is only allowed with a casting bubble (I think they are referring to the clear, water-fillable bobber). These casting bubbles are usually fished with flies beneath them (what IS the difference between a weighted fly and a jig?). It sounds to me like the idea of the permit is to allow disabled people to fish with flies in fly water if they are not physically able to cast a fly rod. I guess it makes more since to me to allow these permits for fly-only lakes but not rivers (if a person can access the upper Hoko, how disabled are they). Is the point to "even the playing field" by allowing disabled people to fish less competitive waters? I guess I don't really know where I am going with this, but the whole idea of this permit sounds a little odd to me.
As far as the VERBAL abuse you have suffered, you certainly don't deserve it but I see why it happens. For every person like you with a permit, there are 10 others that either don't know or don't care about the fly-only regs. It sounds like the upset fly guys would have been better off having a conversation with you (usually the best starting point on river etiquette issues) than just verbally unleashing on you (you know what they say happens when you ass-u-me?).
Gottagofish, do you have any idea of the number of these types of permits that the WDFW issues? Just curious.
Keep your spirits up... Karma has a way of working these things out and whoever destroyed your property will likely pay the price later (where are the attacking cougars when you need them?).

Hay Thanks for the Post, I guess I'll Grab my Spinning Rod and one of Hunting Buddies and let him catch me a few of them slabs in fly only areas. I didn't realize it was legal, but now that I know it is I guess I will try it as I have the Handicaped Hunter Placard, Hunter/Harvester Companian Card and have the 60 % Disabled Vet rating. Might even have to take Ole Mr. 44 Mag out there with me and see if there are any varments out there.

I've also run into this same mentality among Archery and Muzzleloader Hunters while carrying a rifle during Archery and Muzzleloader Seasons, which by the way is perfectly legal as Modern Firearm Bear and Cougar Seasons are also open at the same time their Seasons are in progress.

<img border="0" alt="[eat]" title="" src="graemlins/eat.gif" />

Very interesting thread. Question..... Suppose this thread was started this way:

I went out fishing today in a fly-only area and came across this a#$#$hole using spinning gear. I let him know what I thought of his illegal methods and the moron ignored me. As I continued downriver I say him nail a big chromer.....

What would all you guys have posted then?

Would anyone have stood up for the guy? Would anyone have threatened bodily harm?

The way I look at it, vandalism and break-ins are illegal no matter what

Bad story. But not all that surprising considering the vandalism that happens in fishing access areas. The motivation in this case is particularly disturbing. I thought "fly guys" generally keep their hate directed towards other fly guys! Some "fly guys" have a stick up their a**, but they'd be the same no matter what gear they fished. Be interested to hear specific locations so I might take a look around.

I was at Pass Lake near Anacortes one day fishing with a bunch of folks from a Seattle fly shop. I was fishing out of my float tube when I see this young kid, about 3 or 4 years old run down to the waters edge and start casting his Snoopy Rod with only a casting plug, shouting to dad, who was also in a float tube, "Look at that cast, Dad!"

Some old curmugeon shouts "get that F%&$ing kid off this lake with that F&*$ing piece o' ****e gear."

There were immediately five or six of us who approached "Old Yeller" and told him to shut his yap.

This attitude does persist, somewhat within the fly fishing community, but I would guess it is the vocal minority. (You could also say the same for just about any other segment of our society, some folks are just dicks, plain and simple.)

United we stand, divided we fall.

I'm of the same opinion of Nailknot, I'd keep an eye and ear out at the location of the crime. These people, for whatever there political fishing reason commited a crime and should be accountable and brought to justice. -Seriously. I agree with one of the other posters here who said, "did you contact the police?". I think it is very fair to allow someone who is physically challenged to practice the method the WDFW lays out for them in these "fly-only waters". (Even though I don't agree w/many other things the WDFW does..) I can imagine that it must be extremely uncomfortable for that individual to fish in these locations without feeling the guilt from others who may be nearby. Maybe a great way to combat some of the activities these loosers did to our poster is to have an identifiable sticker label on the car signifying clearly that this person is a "disabled" WDFW License Holder. Then, IF they see the sticker they may think twice and might feel some compassion before they act. --It might help a little in some instances anyway. It sure wouldn't hurt.... Maybe the Orvis Magazine and Power Bar thing isn't a bad deterant either!
I have one question for the original poster though, -why did you select this particular body of water to fish say over another non-fly strict area? -Just curious? And, was it clear to you after comments from some of these fly-guys that they were the perpetrators? -O.K...that's two questions.

Nailknot,

Hey, were you the one hammering on the post on the Washington Fly Fishing forum regarding user name "sinktips" comments?

Good Fishing, Darin
Oh, by the way, it looks like we got some night fishermen out tonight from the times posted!

GGF,

Sad story...spineless punks to take it out behind your back if they have a problem with you or your fishing methods.

Note...it is a misdemeanor to obstruct an angler or hunter in the state of Washington in their legal pursuit of fish or game. Game cops enforce this rule. This sounds like an attempt to obstruct you from exercising your fishing experience.

This, of course, is in addition to the felonies they've already committed.

That being said, these bozos don't know that you have a special permit, and you probably have to accept the fact that folks who are ignorant of your status will lash out. If given the opportunity, I hope you share the reason you have a permit and what you're about.

It's not something you should have to do, but it would probably help if you could, if given the chance.

Good luck...

Todd.

It is much simpler to do the easy thing. Report the vandalism to the local law enforcement including fish & game. If you catch them in the act get an accurate description, vehicle license number or numbers and make model of vehicle. Then also post that information for all to see. Do not try to take matters into your own hands. Some of thse idiots out there who call themselves sportsman are armed to the teeth and I do not believe they would hesitate to use the weapon on you. Possibly justified in defending themselves. If you pack a digitial or film camera just take pictures if you have the time. Let law enforcement handle them and they will believe me. Just my 2 cents worth.

I agree with Steelnerves,,

There should be a special permit placard displayed, just like you need visable when parking your vehicle.
Is this already a requirment for your WDFW special permit? if not IMO it should be one.

Not only on your vehicle but on your person too.

Oh yea almost forgot,

If they got close enough to you to break your rod a description should have been given to the authorities.

Please clarify!

I replyed once already but with everyone talking about the rules for a different type of license got me thinking so I looked up what there is to get one of these. What gottagofish said when he returned to his rig. Well what the disabled license says is that when you have this card that you need to have another licensed person to assist you in your fishing. Well the person gottagofish said that he was by his lonesome. According to his license he has to fish with someone. So what are we to assume that he is not disabled and just trying to beat the system. I mean he's packing heat and you need strong arms to shoot a gun and he's driving by his lonesome. He gets to the rivers and to do that you need your legs. This might be all wrong but I just had to say it.

Old Man,

Very interesting there ol' fella. And if true, our poster "Gottagofish"should come clean. (I'm hoping and guessing he's telling the truth because he seems like a believer in G-d based on his quote) If he had someone w/ and this be the case then that second person for hire should have been a body guard. and weapon training! -I'm Kidding! I think a phone would do better...
Good Fishing, Darin
One other note: Speaking of stickers, it's about time the WDFW provide a multi-use card for our VEHICLE-"S" instead of just one sticker! --Finally I can give them credit for something. BUT --they need to do a better job when it comes to parking permit stickers for Out-of-State -visting fishermen like a friend of mine. He bought a damn two day license only to find out we couldn't launch his boat at the Ben Howard launch because he didn't have de' sticker.... It should be automatic because in many fishing locations you need the permit sticker! Oh, and then I tried to call the WDFW emergency number on a Saturday...only to find out that the answering machine was full. -I was pissed to say the least!!!

Sorry to here about your stuff gotto go fish.

Ya know, when I here about stuff like this happening it really chaps my foreskin. I flyfish and do pretty damn good at it I also spin fish and I do pretty damn good at that too. Everything seemed to be alright till that movie A RIVER RAN THROUGH IT came out then al hell broke loose we had newbies without a clue beeting the water to a froth with there new fancy flyrods standing neck deep in water in there new high dollar neoprene waders stuck up Know it all freaks with no consideration for other people. Now they got to have flyfishing only waters so nowone can see how bad they suck. Yes I am pissed. If you want to flyfish, fine! no problems their mate but dont tell me I have to flyfish dont tell me anything else is unethical. Again, I flyfish, spinfish baitcast, or whatever it takes to get them suckers to bite! Fishing is fishing. Them punks that messed up your stuff are worthless piles of scrapfish poop.

I'm curious as to where Gotogofish was fishing too. One area that immediately comes to mind as trouble is Fortson on the N. Fork Stilly. I suffered two break-ins up there, and had a substantial amount of gear removed from my possession the first time. The second time they stole a leather coat and just vandalized my vehicle. At any rate I don't fish there anymore, and I quit fishing steelhead with a fly-rod because too many of my fly fishing brethren were apparently d!ckheads.

Just because some of us fly fish it doesn't make us dick heads. I've seen bait casters and other types being bigger dickheads than most of these fly fishers are.. There are dick heads in almost any type of fishing. It's just that some stick out more that others do.

Give me a break....

Listen to some of you, As if arguments and fights dont break out in "regular" fishing waters. Hell thats half of what drove me towards flyfishing. Ever Been to Blue Creek??? We'd place bets on what two morons would start the sh*& first. Wasn't there just a popular thread about what some of you would do to JET Boat operators on your "drift waters". I have witnessed MANY fights between boaters and bank fishermen... dont act like you wouldn't jump someones case if YOU were the one flyfishing in fly only waters, and they came in with gear.. thats hypocritical. As for the Gun threats...AGAIN, Half of you packing heat, most likely will put a hole in your own foot. Vandalism and trash talking are an unfortunate outcome of overcrowded fishing, and regulations that heard us in like sheep, simply because its "easier to enforce". I'm really sorry about the vandalism, but it could have easily happened on any river on the OP.

I dont think all "flyguys" did this. just because one is an adiot doesn't mean they all are.

I must agree with elkrun. I have fished at blue creek and the people that fish there all the time think they own the banks. People get mad at others and throw each other in the river and threaten each other. Its only a fish. There are jerks on any river you go on. People think they own the river but just remember its gods country.

I seem to remember a debte on the ethics of this whole disabled permit thing. last winter.

I will never condone vandilism.I am way to upfront for that nonsense.But mr. Gotofish if you think that you are going to trounce down the middle of a flyfishing only stretch of water with no reaction then you are either ignorant to the basics of human nature or are out looking for an argument with this permit.I for one would like to be a fly on the wall during one of these confrontations to see how YOU handle the situation

gotofish=fishjunkie......

I think it is another sad result of competition...for both the people who did the vandalizing and for Gottagofish. Based on Gottagofish's statements, it probably was some low brow,low rent, mouth breathing, gomer of a fly fisherman who didn't want the spin fishing competition in his water, and also Gottagofish is breaking the rules( not fishing with a bubble and not having an assistant) so he can fish the fly only water. Interesting point: doesn't fly only mean just that? You need to fish with a fly but special use permit means you can use a spinning rod with a bubble?

Too many people get too damn competitive and do whatever it takes to get the advantage over the rest of the crowd. You see the same thing in bowhunting and blackpowder hunting where the weapons are designed by lawyers to find whatever loopholes are in the laws. And it just gets worse with more people. I try to remember that I'm going out to have fun and not show I'm the alpha male.

This is hunting related but it goes to the same place as the rest of this post. Several years back, I was deer hunting about 3 miles behind a locked gate when a Datsun pickup drove up the road (rifle out the window, etc..) A little later I asked this person what they were doing and how they got past the locked gate. He said that anyone with a handicap parking permit is eligible to recieve gate keys from the landowner (Simpson Timber in this case) and that he and his helper are allowed to be there.
A few days later, I saw the same rig driving around behind another locked gate (Plum Creek this time).
Doesn't it strike you as a little strange that these landowners lock thier gates to "provide enhanced hunting opportunities", then let a priveledged class of individuals circumvent the rules, thus negating the enhancement. During both of these incidents, deer were seen diving into the brush at the sound of the truck engine.
I am by no means condoning the vandalisim reported by Gottagofish. However, flyfishing only water is designated that way for a reason. Whether it be for harvest reduction or whatever. If WDFW is indeed issuing special permits for the handicapped to essentialy fish in a manner that is inconsistent with the established method, then that is just plain wrong. Why don't they just issue a permit to throw dynamite or use snagging gear or something equaly stupid, (has anyone ever wondered why there are brail instructions on the drive up ATM).
Handicapped people do not need our pity, if you are unable to physicaly throw fly gear all day, then use the gear that you are capable of using. Just do it in an appropriate manner and at the appropriate place. And for god sakes, if you do have a (special) permit, don't even think about waving it under my nose or anybody elses nose. That's just piss poor attitude and likely as not, will just result in you getting the crap kicked out of you.
I now relinquish the soap box to the next speaker.
G

I think this whole thing is a troll. First off this guy has the regs wrong as old man pointed out. Second the Skagit isn't fly only so he don't need his special license. Just a meaningless troll. Some fly guy probably caught that 20 pounder in front of him and he is pissed off.