Bruce,

To do that(ban nets) yes, it takes a loud and cohesive voice and most likey many years ahead of battle. (Plus, you have the Bartlet(sp?) ACT of the Feds to deal with...)-And still, I do not think it would ever be realisitic to think that Washington's native tribes would ever give up ALL of their fishing rights(even in the case of endangerment) -unless the resources is exhusted -completely. I fallow with what Spawner says regarding the "trash" hunters in those parts. No it might not be everyone, but you can be certain it's plenty. Most of my comrades wouldn't dare hunt waterfowl on this (west)side of the mountains at these "plunking -holes" anyway..... It's like going to the Washougal during the salmon run to have 6 other people cross lines with you....For years, and years, (second generation) many of my ol' friends go east for waterfowl for space and productivity. If you want to have these man-made waterfowl "watering holes" why not buy some land yourself. --Or you can go into what's called a "Cost Share Agreement" with a land owner(farmer) in the Skagit Valley. You become the steward of whatever acreage of a wetland within the borders of the farm owners land. The only thing you owe is your time, consideration and sharing some of the costs of whatever is proposed and agreed upon by -you, -the land owner/farmer, -and the acting body of the Farm Service Agency. You can in fact, get a group of people or an organization(Ducks Unlimited, smaller local group, friends etc.) to sponsor or act as a "group" steward instead of taking it all on yourself. The FSA will even help share the vast majority of finances of your proposed wetland enhancement/protection project. In some cases you may not have little if any costs associated if the wetland is in prime shape. --Or you decide not to put to much effort into it. The idea is preservation and secondly enhacement. Though, I think most people who become involved with these programs tend to go all out and in time regenerate the potential of the site -for hunting, ecology benefits, wildlife viewing etc... I've already had support from the NRCS with my wetland out near Republic, WA.
Just some thoughts on alternatives and ideas.....
Darin

I wouldn't consider the flooding of Leque Island or the Welts property a big loss. Thirty duck hunters and twenty pheasant hunters all hunting the same barley field isn't hunting at all. It's a joke. There is decent duck hunting to be had around here but none of it is at the major public access areas.

spawnout,
Look at the bright side of it man. At least you didn't have 200 hunters trespassing on yourland if you need help with that 2 dozen mallards let me know

Hey Bruce,
I know who you are :p

Steel-nerves, Thanks for the ideas. I have a group in mind to ask. I don't hunt those areas myself but many people do. They are not all slob hunters. Its all they have. Those are the major PUBLIC areas left.

Alot of areas had poor hunting this year due to mild weather and a continued poor hatch in Canada.

Yo Bruce,

Cheers! And good luck! Yes, I heard about the mild winter syndrome.....
Good Fishing, Darin

Sorry Benny, but I have to agree with Bruce in principle.

Don't get me wrong I hunt skagit bay a bit myself, but I think the departments ag land planted with barley is like crack for ducks. They can't stay away even though it kills them. If a private group tried to do the same thing they'd be busted by the feds for baiting.

I think this could make the duck numbers overwintering in the bay decrease, but I think the same number would still stop over. Also more salt marsh habitat might help out the widgeon and teal which I think have declined drastically in the skagit basin over the past ~20 years I've hunted it.

Besides all this. You have to look at whats good for both resources. Having more habitat is good for both ducks and fish. I think that is the bottom line.

Geoduck

Geoduck,

If you inferring that a private group would take on a project to enhance and protect an existing or depleted wetland to provide sport and other recreational opportunities(by so called "baiting" the area) you are mistaken. The "Fed" is the implementor of such programs given out by the FSA(Farm Service Agency), NRCS(National Resource Conservation Service) and others under the umbrella of the Department of Agriculture. These approved projects are done with the all aspects in mind, including the native and historical bio-enviro concerns, the farm owner and his crop turn over and the ideas the steward is interested in. Bottom line is when an agreement is made all parties have consensus and are regulated ultimately by the feds! Nothing but good has come out of most of these projects.
Good Fishing, Darin

Sorry, I wasn't clear. What I am talking about is the state paying farmers to leave standing grain crops for the ducks to eat (and hunters to shoot them over the crops). This is essentially state sponsored baiting IMHO.

In the Mississippi flyway, the feds have busted private farmers and hunters for this for years. Around 1999-2000, they really ramped up their enforcement of baiting laws, including writing tickets for leaving unharvested crops to hunt over. But here in the Pacific flyway such enforcement does not seem to be as vigorous (or at least the state is exempt).

Geoduck,
That's pretty bad. A bunch of horse d%ng really. Maybe with these changes we'll see less of that.
Darin

Geoducks,
I do believe that the law says that you cannot plant a field, let the grain stay standing and hunt over it. You can knock the grain down or leave waste grain and hunt over it.

Geoduck,
I agree with your baiting remarks but isn't for example hatchery fish programs a way to promote more fishing and hence revenue? IMHO, baiting isn't very ethical but I think state may be after some revenue as well as providing opportunity to hunt near a big city. Therefore ethics is out of the door. Also hatchery programs may not be good for native fish but then again that is what creates the opportunity and the money. There is a vicious cycle somewhere

Stihlhead,
I like your avatar

Hunting Guys,

This is apples and oranges talk there fellas. Yes, they are both fruits and may even grow on the same land and are even eaten by the same people. But the arguements are seperate as far as the analogy goes. Yes fish and waterfowl have an intertwining here in the case of the Skagit but hatchery steelhead and salmon vs wild salmon & steelies are a seperate issue. I see your point though. But if you wanted a better analogy you'd have to make a case on feeding(they don't feed in fresh H20) adult steelhead to keep them around for better fishing..... Don't you think they're/we're finally starting to figure out the inadequecies and benefits of the hatchery issue? It may be a choice of having no fishery at all or atleast for some time(waiting for native runs to come back) than not have hatchery fish and in other cases -a hatchery run has been proven to be one of the principle or secondary damaging causes of wild fish degredation. So, point is, hatcheries may end up being the only way we can have fishing seasons and especially "catch & keep" seasons. In addition don't forget hatcheries do not only augement sport fishing but also are the primary support to many commercial and tribal fishing operations. The food-on-the- table for the average American has to come from somewhere...... I'm a firm believer in promoting better and more sound land stewardship and not to have "fishing ponds" and "duck holes" unless it's for the kids!
Good Fishing, Darin

BP,
I got it from a hunting site


Darin,

You may have misunderstood my remarks. The point I was trying to make is that sometimes in the process of creating hunting and fishing opportunities, we may do things that are not necessarily kosher. Especially when lots of $ is involved and we know how much junk sportsman buy.

Hunting season is over and these damn hunters are invading our site

See you guys in a few days. Going fishing

Hozeri! That translates to junk in Yiddish. I say we keep things kosher..... Sorry I miss understood you.
Darin - not afraid to be a Jew


Yea, you're right, we gotta keep these hunters out of the site.....

Stihlhead,
Yea, im a member on the refuge too. I check out the Washington site a lot.

Benny (aka dukbuster)