Like we'd ever lose

Just wanted to add a little humor during a difficult time.

I will never live to see it. I would die fighting before I would let it happen.

i sure as hell would fight to the death before I see something like that, no way in hell

Don't worry. They showed a clip of Sadam swimming on History Channel and he can't swim

Heard a clip on the news this morning...seems we have been holding exercises in Kuwait and they look pretty realistic, A little to realistic for the Iraqis right across the border...they put up the white flag and surrenderd, We could not keep them and they got sent back across the border. Them boys are just itchen' to surrender...I guess its no big suprise after last time. Surrender=get food. How pathetic

Johnny:

They saw us practicing and thought they would practice too.

Why has no one considered invading the U.S.A since the british? becouse too many good americans own guns. The japanese researched the idea after they were so succesful in china and dropped the idea when they did their dead and wounded projections. remember that the average person in china was not allowed to own guns. no guns get invaded . got guns don't get invaded. really simple.

Another good reason to join the NRA

Sound's good to me starcraft.

A really good buddy of mine was an MP overthere the first time. Said there were so many prisoners it boggled the mind, The US was totaly unprepared for their army to surrender in the numbers that did. He talked about loading up greyhound type buses with prisoners in convoys of twenty or thirty buses, there was supposed to be 4 MPs on every bus, one driver and three gaurds. When the buses would get to the camps they would usually have 1 or 2 MPs for the whole convoy, One driving the front bus and maybe, if they had enough manpower, one driving the rear bus. The prisoners were so desperate for food and everything else, that their only mission was to be under the command of the US.
I remember a doonsbury cartoon with an Iraqi platoon surrenduring to our Marines, and the Iraqi seargent saying " we surrender, can I eat you chapstick?"

Starcraft and Stihlhead - I know what you mean - That must be the reason that Canada, Australia, & New Zealand have never been invaded as well. Oh wait, they have strict gun control and an unarmed citizenry. Maybe it has more to do with vast land distances or the fact that the only way to approach them is over long distances of water. Try again you guys.

This will be a famous photo for the War.

REMEMER VIET NAM

Heard that some Iraqi troops are dressing as U.S./ally troops and moving in on civilians. No wonder that they hate us so much!

Eddie,

Canada may not be big on hand guns, but they have plenty of rifles and shotguns up there. To say they are unarmed is ridiculous. I think a scoped 300 win mag is a better deterrent (for foreign intruders) than a 38 spl. so I doubt the handgun control up there has any lessening effect on them as an armed civilization. Hunting arms are permitted in New Z. and Australia as well. Curious, are you a closet gun control advocate?

Predator Dawg - Not much closet to it. I have been a member of Handgun Control Inc. and wish we had strict gun control here. However, having said that, I am not looking to get involved in another round of bashing on my gun control beliefs. And, I am also realistic enough to understand that gun control in the United States will not work - far too many guns, far too many users. I do rise to the bait however, when I hear that the fact that we have a lot of guns somehow protects us from foreign invasion or our own government. I do not believe it (and I did live in New Zealand for five years - I do know how many guns there are - and it equates to a very small percentage of the population). Having said all this - if the members of this board want to argue the merits/demerits of gun control - bring it on. I doubt very much that anyone will convince me I am wrong. I also doubt very much that I will convince anyone that I am right. By the way, when I talk of gun control, I am really referring to hand guns and the Assault style of rifles.

I'm not a gun control advocate, but I do think that the theory as to why we haven't been invaded is because our citizens are so well armed is preposterous.

Imagine a well trained division of invading soldiers, expert in urban warfare tactics, encountering a group of civilians who happened to break out their deer rifles and 9mm "self-protection" pistols. At least 90% of whom have never fired at a human target, much less killed anyone. Somehow I don't think the battle would bode well for the citizens.

IMHO, the real reason we haven't been invaded has already been expressed above. It has much more to do with sheer logistics, and our MILITARY defense capabilities, than a bunch of regular folks unloadin' the old double barrel.

4Salt

You may be right, but I would pity the poor SB that tried to take over the folks who live outside of the big cities. City folks may be one thing, but the people who live outside of the big cities in the sticks, are a whole different story. Most of the guys down our way all have weapons and are quite capable of putting 4 out of 5 rounds into a nickel at 100 yards or better. Most of them have at lease 4 or five riffles that will most likely out shoot 90% of most second world military weapons. Yes, military weapons can shoot numerous bullets at a time, but it only takes one bullet to kill you! You are also right that the "battle" would not bold well for the citizens who depend on the police or others to "protect" them. But leave those big cities, and it's a whole different world out there.

Hell, once you leave the big cities, people don't have any fear at all about shooting another human being to death either. If you think that I am wrong, just try reading one of the local rural newspapers sometime.

One more hidden factor that most other nations know and fear; once you have tasted what freedom is, it's next to imposable to ever take it away from someone.

IMHO, there are several real reasons why our nation hasn't been attacked yet by other armys or nations. 1) We are the only supper power left in the world. 2) No other nation has a Military or the resources that can take on a supper power. 3) We are the most heavily civilian armed force in the entire would. 4) No other nation has the technology or the ability to use it like the U.S. has.

I can go on, but I think you get the message! Never ever underestimate the power or the threat that 200 million educated armed civilian people may have. That's why those chicken $hits used airplanes to attack America... They were to chicken to go one to one!




Cowlitzfisherman

All the city boys who call us tarheels and rednecks because we have guns, would be kissing our a$$es if someone ever tried to come and take this nation from us.

Love that picture! Is anyone else boycotting French products?

Why are the French being singled out? What about Chinese products? German products? Then there's Russia, Mexico, Camaroon, etc.

So that means not using half your electronic gear, not enjoying a heffe weisen or wurst, no tacos, no cigars, no vodka......

Seems kind of stupid to restrict your own freedom because some countries have the balls to stand behind their beliefs and exercise their own freedom. Don't forget that most of the countries that are jumping on our bandwagon are doing it for a price. That makes them whores in my book.

Just because they don't agree with us doesn't make them wrong. You should respect them for having the courage to stand by their convictions. That's what democracy -- and freedom -- is all about.

now thats what i say way to goharley couldnt say it any better then that to bad our goverment doesit understand that to.

goharley

The French owe us!
Have they forgot who saved them?

Damn right they owe us a hell of a lot

I don't believe that privately owned firearms have much to do with whether or not we'll ever be attacked.
I do believe that the vast majority of gun control advocates don't know [Bleeeeep!] about guns.

Everyone's huffing and puffing about America not being invaded, which is exactly what is happening on a daily basis. Look at the millions of illegal Mexicans that are taking over the Southeast as well as the Southwest. Just wait, another ten years and half of your town will be comprised of illegal Mexicans. Too bad our government isn't stopping this invasion.

Well it's obvious to me that the solution to all our problems is to arm all the illegal aliens coming in from Mexico, with cheap assault weapons, give them a lifetime membership in the NRA, and have our rednecks teach them to place five rounds in a nickle at 100 yards.

Then, we need to boycott any nation that does not fully support our policies. That now includes, Russia, China, Cameroon, France, Germany, the citizens of Canada and Great Britain.

To avoid looking hypocritical we should repay France for its troops and money that were responsible for us winning the revolutionary war, and perhaps we should dismantle and return the Statute of Liberty. It's been a bit of an embarrassment anyway, what with its lofty ideals like "Give us your huddled masses." Hell once all the Mexicans are allowed in, we wont have any more room for masses, huddled or not.

Once those two steps are completed we should be safe from any possible invasion. After all, who would want to invade a country full of armed, ill educated aliens, that have no access to most of the world's trade goods?

All we would have to give up is the huge share of our economy that relies on world trade.

It shouldn?t take us too long to learn to say "freedom fries" At least we don't need to import potatoes. And we will have pleanty of Mexicans to serve us our super sized freedom fires. But don't give them any lip, cuz they will all be armed.

4Salt:

What you just described already happened once…I think it was called the Revolutionary War. Remember, the British thought the EXACT same way you do!!!
The rest is History..

Just a side note. The Army that you are describing that are experts in urban warfare and the best training in the world in called the US Army/Marines/Air force/Navy… Other than that I really think that with so many reservists and ex-military out there alone, can't forget the militias, the sheer size of our country, I don't think anyone would have a chance in hell!!!

PMartin,

Did you take the time to ACTUALLY read my post, or did you just rush to reply?

During the Revolutionary war THE BRITISH WERE ALREADY HERE! Remember, we were COLONISTS, part of the British empire. They WERE NOT a foreign country that came to invade.

Another small history lesson for you. We ACTUALLY had an army as well. (albeit they were made up mostly of local militia) George Washington was a general in that army, remember? I'm SURE that they were somewhat trained, and disciplined (as well as they could be under those circumstances) and didn't just run out half-cocked, shooting at anything that moved.

The thing I get the biggest kick out of is how some people get all testosteroned up talking about how they're gonna shoot any invaders that show up, and that some rural civilians are so tough that hey, what do we even need an army for? We can handle the invaders ourselves. After all we can put 5 rounds in a nickel at 100 yards, so what chance does a large mechanized, heavily armed, TRAINED force have against the Tenino chapter of Ducks Unlimited?

You must have also missed the part where I said "OUR MILITARY DEFENSE CAPABILITIES" along with logistical obstacles were the biggest deterrent to foreign invasion.

One last point. For not knowing much about urban warfare tactics, the Japanese and Germans sure seemed to be effective at conquering a large portion of the world in a relatively short period of time back in the late 1930's.

There are so many tangents to this thread let me use this one reply to all topics.

Those of you who think that New Zealand, France, Australia, and Germany are in the right on all of the above topics should move there.

Thank you.

Name one large URBAN battle in the '30's??

Thanks, lernt a ton todayyy

If I had the time and energy this could be fun


The part of your writing I really like is that you DON"T THINK Americans WOULD stand up and FIGHT!!!

Someone else will do it right???

Here is a pretty good article that gets summed up quite well in the last three paragraphs.

http://www.msnbc.com/news/884682.asp?0cv=CB10

Seems like everything boils down to greed, power, and sometimes women.....


FREE IRAQ
BOMB FRANCE!!!

Here is a pretty good article that gets summed up quite well in the last three paragraphs.

http://www.msnbc.com/news/884682.asp?0cv=CB10

Seems like everything boils down to greed, power, and sometimes women.....


FREE IRAQ
BOMB FRANCE!!!

Pmartin,

You know what the weirdest thing is? What I've typed onto the board from my computer doesn't seem to be the same thing that is appearing on your monitor screen.

Where did I say that I didn't think that American citizens would fight? What I said was that the battle would in all probability favor an army over a group of civilians.

Be that as it may, let me try to sum up for you my point in a way that will not lose it's meaning in the translation:

The reason we weren't invaded during WW2 had MUCH more to do with our military defense capability, and the fact that the Atlantic and Pacific oceans kinda presented a slight barrier, than Japan worrying about our armed civilians.

Remember, they had just engaged a lot of supposedly powerful militaries of the time (Britain, France) while conquering Asia, and made short work of them, and even the U.S. in the early stages of the war.

The British DID attempt invasion, but it was during the war of 1812. They were ultimately repelled, and the war eventually won by the MILITARY of the fledgling United States, not it's civilians with their hunting muskets. As far as the Revolutionary war goes, England already had troops, ships and supplies here. Just like we have in say, Puerto Rico. (our territory) They didn't just decide to land on the beaches and begin an invasion like Japan or Germany would have had to. (I'm pretty sure neither had troops already on our soil.)

If you want to get technical though, Japan did invade, and occupied 2 islands in the Aleutian chain that as you know were part of what was to become the state of Alaska. You could also count the Phillipines, and the other islands in the Pacific that were U.S. territories at the time. Let's just stick with the actual contiguous United States though.

The term "Urban warfare" may have been used incorrectly on my part. Invasion (of both cities and rural areas) of the mainland U.S. is what I meant. Armed troops with tanks, artillery, air support, and overwhelming numbers against civilians with hunting rifles and hand guns. Japan DID have these capabilities early on in WW2.

Semantics aside, I agree that arguing on the subject is pretty much a waste of "Valuable work time." So this will be it for me. Hopefully I've now cleared it up enough for you so that the need for hostility and sarcasm are no longer present.

p.s. To answer this question:

And we'll include the early 40's as well:

Warsaw, Paris, Prague, Brussels, Shanghai, Manilla... shall I go on?

4Salt

It kind of sounds likes to want to knock everybody that goes up against your wisdom.

I hope that is not true! It's kind of like the city guy who can't kill a mole in his back yard because of all those "rednecks" who are all out there trying to get those hides!

This thread certainly does not reflect what our personal positions, knowledge, or views are when it comes to fishing or managing our resources. When you touch a nerve to many, you will surly get reactions. Maybe that's why you are a "Television Producer"; you kind of know how to get to people!

Am I right?

P.S., what were all those "minute men" ....engineers or rednecks?

Cowlitzfisherman

Alright, Alright! One more and that's it! (I promise)

Cowlitz,

How the hell does what I do for a living have any bearing on expressing my opinion through dialog with Pmartin?

Do you mean that retired fishing guides' opinions are somehow more relevant?

Make some sense man! for a change. :p

"Ive got a shotgun, a rifle, and a 4 wheel drive, and a country boy can survive"

For all the Rednecks out there, a little Hank Williams JR

Don't get me wrong, I love this country and will support it til I die, but some of you need a slight reality check... The "US is a super-power that will never fall" attitude is great and all, but keep in mind the short amount of time the US has existed compared to something like the Roman Empire. These 'empires' or 'super-powers' are like teen-agers who feel indistructable - but in time they always fall. We are no different (we just seem to think we are). But some day, we'll fall. It may be war where nukes and\or chemicals are involved, or some new disease\plague, meteor? or just a severe economic depression that weakens us just long enough for someone to make a move. Who know if it will be in 1 year or 100 years, but anyone who thinks we are invicible is only fooling himself.
Count each day as a blessing and be thankful for the freedom you have today.

4Salt

All I can say to you is "producers" tend to be people that tell others how to act, and what to do....and how to do it!

Where as guides are people who tend to tell people how to catch fish and how to do it!

Is there a big difference, well the board members can figure that one out!

Sorry if I reeled in your line...but isn't that what guides do when others get all tangled up? Someone has to untangle those messes!

Now you have promised already; "Alright, Alright! One more and that's it! (I promise)" that was your last reply...right?

Now lets see if you are a man of your word!!


PhishPhreak

If the U.S. ever falls it will most likely be because of one of two events; 1) we suffer a massive nuclear attack from another nation, or 2) we revolt from within. Most likely, it will be number 2) from within!


Cowlitzfisherman

Wow - next time I need to know the future I know who to ask. Glad you got it all figured out dude

But it's not 'if it ever falls' - it's when...

A revolt from inside? Hmmm, the South failed last time that kind of thing was tried. Just imagine what it would have been like if the North had jets, tanks, etc...

Yeah, stop being a *****

Come on guys. Let's do something productive and stop the invasion before it is too late. I hear them coming. LOL

NRA


PhishPhreak,

Based on history and Murphy's Law ("If anything can go wrong, it will") you have a good point. May be not in our life time!

CFM, since 4Salt has chosen not to reply, I will. And no, he has not asked me, I do not know the man. Your description of his job is incorrect. You have described a director. A producer is the person who either finds the financial backing or offers it himself to finance the production of a film, music, ad, etc.

Don't know if this is really important, but it is always good to be accurate.